Flower's Sump/Fuge Build

monsinour

Active Member
@2q - I was at Lowes with the bulkhead in my pocket. I was in the PVC secion where they have threaded female adapters to regular Slip PVC tube. None of the adapeters fit on the threads of the bulkhead to the overflow. 3/4" or .75" was way too small. 1" was just barely too small. 1.25" was just barely too big. I really think the size is 1 1/8" or 1.125". Right now I have 1" vinyl tubing attached to the threads with a "O" clamp holding it on. It is working just fine right now. I appreciate the advice and the pic, but I had the part in hand and attempted to put everything they had at Lowes on it. Nothing fit.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/220#post_3314012
@2q - I was at Lowes with the bulkhead in my pocket. I was in the PVC secion where they have threaded female adapters to regular Slip PVC tube. None of the adapeters fit on the threads of the bulkhead to the overflow. 3/4" or .75" was way too small. 1" was just barely too small. 1.25" was just barely too big. I really think the size is 1 1/8" or 1.125". Right now I have 1" vinyl tubing attached to the threads with a "O" clamp holding it on. It is working just fine right now. I appreciate the advice and the pic, but I had the part in hand and attempted to put everything they had at Lowes on it. Nothing fit.
Thats because it's a slip bulkhead...meaning you'd have to glue a piece of 3/4" pipe into the the inside of the bulkhead and then add the other addapters on to that. You'll never find any adapter that fits the outside threads because all measurements are based on the inner diameter of bulkheads.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Here's a shot of a 3/4' Threaded bulkhead...you can see in the pics that the inside is threaded and the 3/4" barb fitting screws right into it. As apposed to the Slip bulkheads that require you to glue a piece of pipe to the inside and then add your addapters onto that.
 

al&burke

Active Member
Is the fitting that you are trying to find Monsinour perhaps a compression fitting, where there is a nut that slips over the hose then screws onto the fitting on the bulkhead, I guess a picture would help me understand it a bit more, just my 2 cents.
 

flower

Well-Known Member

I am so lost, I can't even begin to tell you where I need advice...Am I going to have to cut and glue PVC pipe to get the hoses attached when I get this here to my house? Please advise ASAP or will worry about this all night.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/220#post_3314034

I am so lost, I can't even begin to tell you where I need advice...Am I going to have to cut and glue PVC pipe to get the hoses attached when I get this here to my house? Please advise ASAP or will worry about this all night.
No need to worry Flower, I've already picked up what you will need. The only thing you will have to do is glue it in. Nothin to it!
 

al&burke

Active Member
Sorry flower, I think a may have complicated things for you, I think it will be really simple, the other guy's will walk you through. I work with alot of differnt high pressure fitting pipe and things like that in Power Plants, just trying to put my 2cents in, I don't think you have to worry about it, Shawn & Corey and Meowzer and Monisinour will set you straight, they haven't let you down yet.
 

flower

Well-Known Member

Okay...How about you label the parts with permanent magic marker or tape ...A - Z and numbers so when you walk me through it...Then you can say glue A to #5 part or something like that. Otherwise I will be posting pictures saying "Is this the part you’re talking about?" Do you understand what I mean? Because to be honest I don't even know what a bulkhead is...you may as well be talking Latin to me.
meowzer...Do you have a bigger picture because I can't read what that brush is...brand and all that stuff.
 

meowzer

Moderator
Sorry Flower....the stupid thing won't let me.....
google
Marineland flexi-brush
first thing that comes up...it's like $3-5......just make sure you get the NYLON one....it's 48" long....I have used it on the overflow, and even the canister filter tubes
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/220#post_3314057
Sorry Flower....the stupid thing won't let me.....
google
Marineland flexi-brush
first thing that comes up...it's like $3-5......just make sure you get the NYLON one....it's 48" long....I have used it on the overflow, and even the canister filter tubes

Thank you! I found it...I won't need it right away so I saved the site on favorites...I don't want to spend a dime of my spending money until I find out what I will owe Shawn and everyone for the sump and parts.
 

monsinour

Active Member
Flower, watch the video on youtube for the CPR Overflow installation. It makes it really simple and easy to understand. heck, inside the box there wernt any "real" instructions other than to watch the video on youtube. If you search CPR Overflow, it should be the first video in the list. If you are going to have to glue the PVC to the bulkhead, i would do that first before assembling the overflow. If worse comes to worse, I will be glad to call you and walk you through this over the phone. I did tech support for a living, currently unemployeed, and I had to walk nurses through replacing memory sticks, hard drives, NICs, video cards, etcetera, inside computers. If I can do that over the phone, I can get you to connect everything just fine.
 

flower

Well-Known Member

I watched the video, it was the same one I saw before. It looks very simple but whaever you were talking about didn't match what they were talking about...or it didn't seem to. Coray and Shawn says for me not to worry, they will put as much as possible together before they send it. Corey says I may have to glue one thing and they have given me pictures on where to run the hoses.
Shawn still has to build it, so I have time to look at some things and try to get a better understanding. I guess the biggest mystery for me is how to regulate the water in the sump and display tank. I see the sump isn't full and it looks like each section has a different water level..then add in the ATO...yes I'm quite lost.
Stuff I keep churning over in my mind:
I know the skimmer needs 8 inches of water to run so that chamber needs at least that amount of water in it. The middle section is where the return pump is, and that's where the ATO hose must go..so that level of water must remain the same at all times.( what level I don't know) . The refugium is taller and wll overflow to fill the return chamber. The return pump becomes the most important piece because if it fails the whole system falls apart. The overflow has to have a hole in the tube to prevent a constant siphon if the return pump goes off because of power failure or stops running. There has to be enough room in the sump for extra water just in case the DT to starts to flood...

Oh and where would I put Polyfilters or any other media in a sump?
 

meowzer

Moderator
Flower.....I took a piece of egg crate and cut it so I can just slide it in right before my return pump...I attach a piece of cheapo poly batting from walmart...like below
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/220#post_3314106
Flower.....I took a piece of egg crate and cut it so I can just slide it in right before my return pump...I attach a piece of cheapo poly batting from walmart...like below


Your sump has a skimmer chamber, then a refugium then a return correct?
My sump will have a skimmer chamber then three baffles going to the return chamber and from the right the refugium water going to the return chamber...So would I attach a piece of egg crate to the last baffle from the skimmer leading to
the return chamber?
 

meowzer

Moderator
YES....and I have this in the last section....the return section....
For me...it's just EXTRA protection
 

meowzer

Moderator
IDK if I answered that right...LOL
Yes to the ...Your sump has a skimmer chamber, then a refugium then a return correct?
THEN...I actually have this eggcrate IN the return chamber....it is cut so all I have to do is slide it in....and I use those feeder clips to hold the poly to the eggcrate and the suction cups hole the eggcrate to the sump
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/220#post_3314123
IDK if I answered that right...LOL
Yes to the ...Your sump has a skimmer chamber, then a refugium then a return correct?
THEN...I actually have this eggcrate IN the return chamber....it is cut so all I have to do is slide it in....and I use those feeder clips to hold the poly to the eggcrate and the suction cups hole the eggcrate to the sump

Okay...lets try it again...the baffles sepeate the chamber of the skimmer and retun in my sump. So that last baffle would get a piece of eggcrate attached with feeding clips and poly in between. Otherwise I don't see any filtration, just moving water and a skimmer. How can that outdo a canister (and I know it does) with all the media it has in it?
 

posiden

Active Member
Edit; My post seems to be way off line. Sorry. For what ever reason I could not get out of the Multi Quote section and I could not get below the quote.
Yes, and No. Things do get a little more involved then this. It depends on the type of OF one is running. A HOB for instance, can only flow as much as the U tube can handle. That comes from the diameter of the U tube, and from the pressure difference between the two levels of water. That's why the larger HOBs will run 2 U tubes. By putting in a larger bulkhead in a HOB, you wont be able to flow more water. You will have less noise, or a chance of less noise from said larger bulkhead. Yes, the final say in what can flow through a bulkhead is the bulkhead diameter or the feed pipe to the bulkhead.......however. Placing a larger pipe, or hose on the opposite side of the bulkhead is a good idea and is not a waste. Again, you will be able to run a much more quiet drain that way.
A drain such as the one in question, a Stockman or a Durso type drain. Relies on air to remain silent. hence the hole in the top, or the air line going inside of it to "tune" the drain. Water coats the walls of the pipe and has a inner core of air. That's why bigger is better. Even after the bulkhead. A good example of this is a drain setup that has a few tight turns in it. A larger drain pipe will allow it to run more quietly.
On the Herbie or BeanAnimals design. A full siphon is employed to make the drain run silent. It also allows for more flow through a smaller diameter pipe since you don't want the air in it. You can turn or twist all you like (Within reason on Beans. He runs an open channel pipe) and run totally silent, as long as the restriction of the pipe size/length will flow the required amount.
I'm not trying to call you out, or be an a$$. That's just how I read your post and I think some confusion "could" come from it.
I'm sorry Flower, I didn't mean to get off topic or, nor did I want to confuse you in any way. Just disregard my post for the time being.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/200#post_3313903
Sorry, I wasn't actually recommending that you should take apart your drain to check it. I was merely trying to point out that when in refference to bulkheads that Slip or Thread style refers to the inside of the bulkhead. I'm glad that you joined in this thread as any and everyones opinions are certainly welcome. Our goal as a team is to come up with the best design possible to give Flower a really kick a$$ set-up.
All bulkheads that are used in this hobby are basically threaded on the ouside for installation. I would however, like to mention for Flower's benefit or anyone else who might be following alongs benefit that simply adding a larger hose on the drain won't actually do anything to increase the amount of flow that your overflow is designed to handle. The best way to look at this would be to think of your bulkhead as a bottle neck. If you have a 3/4" and a 1" drain line then you're still only going to get the amount of water draining through there that the 3/4" bulkhead will allow to pass. I would suggest against installing the hose on the outside of the bulkead, if you intend to use a hose clamp you should be careful since those Sch. 40 bulkheads are easy to crack. The slip style is design for installing a pvp pipe in the bottom of them so that you can run a pvc drain or attatch the proper fittings in order to use vinyl.
The best and probably the only way to increase the output of your overflow would be to simply enlarge the drain opening on the overflow in order to step up to the next biggest size bulkhead. Assuming that the back box on the overlow had the room to do so. It would be simple to do and would be a great way to insure that you're actually achieving the maximum amount of drainage that your overflow will give you. You'd have to take into account the actual size of the overflow as well, and how much water the U shaped channel will allow to pass. But I think you could just to the next biggest size bulkhead with no probs. At the very least it's a little extra piece of mind.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posiden http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/220#post_3314125
Edit; My post seems to be way off line. Sorry. For what ever reason I could not get out of the Multi Quote section and I could not get below the quote.
Yes, and No. Things do get a little more involved then this. It depends on the type of OF one is running. A HOB for instance, can only flow as much as the U tube can handle. That comes from the diameter of the U tube, and from the pressure difference between the two levels of water. That's why the larger HOBs will run 2 U tubes. By putting in a larger bulkhead in a HOB, you wont be able to flow more water. You will have less noise, or a chance of less noise from said larger bulkhead. Yes, the final say in what can flow through a bulkhead is the bulkhead diameter or the feed pipe to the bulkhead.......however. Placing a larger pipe, or hose on the opposite side of the bulkhead is a good idea and is not a waste. Again, you will be able to run a much more quiet drain that way.
A drain such as the one in question, a Stockman or a Durso type drain. Relies on air to remain silent. hence the hole in the top, or the air line going inside of it to "tune" the drain. Water coats the walls of the pipe and has a inner core of air. That's why bigger is better. Even after the bulkhead. A good example of this is a drain setup that has a few tight turns in it. A larger drain pipe will allow it to run more quietly.
On the Herbie or BeanAnimals design. A full siphon is employed to make the drain run silent. It also allows for more flow through a smaller diameter pipe since you don't want the air in it. You can turn or twist all you like (Within reason on Beans. He runs an open channel pipe) and run totally silent, as long as the restriction of the pipe size/length will flow the required amount.
I'm not trying to call you out, or be an a$$. That's just how I read your post and I think some confusion "could" come from it.
I'm sorry Flower, I didn't mean to get off topic or, nor did I want to confuse you in any way. Just disregard my post for the time being.

Boy am I relieved
My heart was doing a thump thump freaking out until I read that line. Here I was talking to Meowzer trying to find where to put filtraion and see this. Anyway I'm off to work...have a good night all!
 
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