Flower's Sump/Fuge Build

posiden

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/180#post_3313221
Yes the plastic clamps will work.... With barbed fittings off the bulkheads and how tight the fit will be plastic would work. Outsid the tank the stainless steel clamps would be just fine though, it's in the sump you don't want the metal. You have to be mindfull of the metal clamps; they can pinch the hose if careless.

 
I'm not sure if they come large enough but.....I like this style clamp for the very reason you mention. In fact, its the only style I use on my Air Cooled VWs.
 
http://www.boatersworld.com/product/MP81121888.htm?utm_medium=productsearch&utm_source=google
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posiden http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/200#post_3313742
 
I'm not sure if they come large enough but.....I like this style clamp for the very reason you mention. In fact, its the only style I use on my Air Cooled VWs.
 
http://www.boatersworld.com/product/MP81121888.htm?utm_medium=productsearch&utm_source=google
Those awab clamps are nice and it looks like they do sell them in bigger sizes. Not sure where you'd go to find them if you were looking locally...I'd imagine maybe a boat store. I don't think I've ever seen them at the home improvement stores. I know in the past I've just used a couple of wraps of electrical tap around the hose to help protect against the typical style hose clamps where I really needed to torque them down to help from cutting into the hose in certain applications.
 

monsinour

Active Member
I am sooooo late to the party, my bad.
 
I have the CPR CS50 and the bulkhead is not a slip style for mine. The part that is on the outside of the "tank" is threaded and gave me grief when attempting to connect it to my sump. I tried just twisting my drain line onto it as it was a tad smaller than the threads and felt that the threads would assist in holding it on like the ribs in your plastic tubing pictures of "T" and "Y" connections. If we are going to go with the CPR overflow box, you have to get the cover as an additional piece. If you do not get the cover, you have no where to place the aqualifter nor have a place to put the return off of the aqualifter.
 
Not sure why no one has mentioned it but why not get an Aquac Urchin Pro for the skimmer? It is as simple as they come. It is literally plug in and turn on, that is it. No tuning, no futzing with, nothing. I will be getting my Urchin from UPS tomorrow and cannot wait to install it. I believe there is plenty of height under the stand to get the cup out for cleaning. I also think that the Urchin Pro is rated for your size tank Flower. The urchin pro from where I got mine is only $227 and comes with the pump.
 
Give me about 5 minutes and I will shoot a video for you Flower, as well as the build team, to show you just how my sump is working and what all I had to do to get the overflow to work.
 
BRB..................
 
edit : ran out of space on the memory card. I havent watched the video yet, but It should have all the important stuff in it. Going to take a while to upload it to Photobucket so I might need more than the 5 minutes requested.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/200#post_3313814
So it took 45 minutes to upload, but here it is. Enjoy!
 
http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j230/tomjonessinger/?action=view&current=waterflow.mp4

 
45 minutes! I would be pulling my hair out...Nicely detailed video, and I so appreciate your incredible patients for downloading it for me. I believe that was a lift pump he was showing, but the overflow had very little water compared to the video I saw of them from CPR
How can it get a suction without a lid? If they charge extra for it I will be mad.
 
I don't know how to choose a good skimmer, I have purchased 4 and I hated every one of them. So I give that chore to Shawn. I don't a thing about overflows, and I mean nothing...so again I'm trusting Shawn and Corey. Al has already made up the design specs and wouldn't they have to start all over if I started changing things on them now?
 
Oh and on the power head, I have two small ones, I just heve to figure how to put them in the refugium. I'm pretty good at that as you can see from the picture of the back of my tank. I will find a way to hang a power head on the refugium.

 
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Honestly Flower I think the consensus is obvious on the skimmer choice....The Octopus SS.....Very good skimmer, a performer, but I'll let my other "evil twins" chime in on the skimmer.....I don't think the lid on the CPR is there for the mere fact of creating suction. If my memory serves me correctly and I've only been around that type overflow for about a year, the lid isn't sealed; so it wouldn't be creating a seal. I think the lid is more for aesthetics, to keep stuff from falling in the overflow, and preventing salt spray; creep, plus it gives you a nice little handy place to sit the aqualifter pump as well.....
 
Others please chime in!!!!!!
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Monsinour. I believe the slip style bulkhead refers to the inner diameter of the bulkhead. The threads on the outside are simply for fastening the nut which secures the bulkhead in place. I'm pretty sure if you were to look at yours again that you won't find threads on the inside of it. This would allow you to simply install the proper size hose barber fitting along with a pvc adapter to install vynil tubing. I'm not sure which cover you are refering to. Is it the one for the back of the overflow? That'd more or less an option to help silence the sound of it is it not?
 

flower

Well-Known Member

 
Alright I won't be mad about it...LOL..but plan to get the lid when you get the overflow. I need the lifter pump to get things going. I do have a question...I thought I only needed that lifter pump to get things started, I didn't think it had to be running all the time and have to sit on top. Did I miss something?
 
Monsinour went to so much trouble to show me something, bless his heart waiting 45 minutes for a video to download. I just didn't know how to tell him we already had the skimmer planned and the sizes all set. I know I have the final say, and what I say is that what Shawn picked out is good, and I explained why I put that choice in your more than capable hands. So the Octopus ss is the way we are going to go.
 
I have my money all set so when you say it's time I can write a check or whatever I have to do to get the skimmer and such, just guide me through it...
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
I think the only option you have for not running the aquatic litter full time is to place the outlet tube inside the back of the overflow and submerged the end of it therfore creating not only a syphon on the overflow but a syphon in the aquatic litter as well I'll have to double check but someone told me before that it can be done that way. If not then yes its safer to run it full time.
 

meowzer

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/200#post_3313847

 
Alright I won't be mad about it...LOL..but plan to get the lid when you get the overflow. I need the lifter pump to get things going. I do have a question...I thought I only needed that lifter pump to get things started, I didn't think it had to be running all the time and have to sit on top. Did I miss something?
 
Monsinour went to so much trouble to show me something, bless his heart waiting 45 minutes for a video to download. I just didn't know how to tell him we already had the skimmer planned and the sizes all set. I know I have the final say, and what I say is that what Shawn picked out is good, and I explained why I put that choice in your more than capable hands. So the Octopus ss is the way we are going to go.
 
I have my money all set so when you say it's time I can write a check or whatever I have to do to get the skimmer and such, just guide me through it...
HEYYYYYYY....I suggested the Octo ss
 

flower

Well-Known Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/200#post_3313862
HAHAHAHA....I can't wait till you get all this together....I think you are gonna be really happy


 
LOl...you quoted my post before I fixed it...with is spelled wit now forever.

 
 
I am so blessed by what everyone is doing for me...Shawn outdid himself. I took my laptop to work so I could show everyone. I can hardly contain myself. I have to really follow along and know how to assemble the hoses and stuff...I'm very nervous...I have never had a sump before, and I have kept fish over 30 years..hang on the back penguins and canister filters only... this is a whole new world for me. It looks complicated but Shawn says he can talk me through it...I hope so.
 
 

meowzer

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/200#post_3313864
 

 
LOl...you quoted my post before I fixed it...with is spelled wit now forever.

 
 
I am so blessed by what everyone is doing for me...Shawn outdid himself. I took my laptop to work so I could show everyone. I can hardly contain myself. I have to really follow along and know how to assemble the hoses and stuff...I'm very nervous...I have never had a sump before, and I have kept fish over 30 years..hang on the back penguins and canister filters only... this is a whole new world for me. It looks complicated but Shawn says he can talk me through it...I hope so.
 
I fixed it for ya

 
I bet he can
I would tell you not to worry...LOL...but I am a worrier too....I am always looking underneath...making sure water levels are exact...If I hear one drop of water that sounds different, I'm searching for it HAHA
 
I'm probably more neurotic than anyone.....I always have to be messing with something too
 

flower

Well-Known Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/200#post_3313868
I fixed it for ya

 
I bet he can
I would tell you not to worry...LOL...but I am a worrier too....I am always looking underneath...making sure water levels are exact...If I hear one drop of water that sounds different, I'm searching for it HAHA
 
I'm probably more neurotic than anyone.....I always have to be messing with something too


 
Thanks for fixing it...I don't hit the keys right or something..I miss letters, and it drives me crazy, I can't play the piano anymore either...I hit a key and it makes no sound. Spell check doesn't catch them all if it looks like another word.
 
Anyway, as I understand it you had an alarm set up too...it pays to be paranoid about dripping water.
I don't think it's a fault.
 
 

monsinour

Active Member
Is the lid needed for suction? - No. The lid is there to keep crap out and I use it to place the lifter someplace
 
Does the lift need to run 24/7? - No. As 2Q stated, if you submerge the end in the back of the overflow it will create a syphon in the pump and you can turn it off. BUT, there is quite a few bubble build up within the "U" shaped overflow and those bubbles might stop the syphon. I run mine 24/7 just to be sure that the overflow doesnt stop.
 
Whats the coonection type to the overflow? - Well, the outside of mine is threaded and the tube i used was not going to fit inside the bulkhead. I had to go on the outside of the overflow's bulkhead. Am I going to take it apart and look at the inside? Not right now. When I clean everything again, prolly friday, I will do this. I cant change my tube though as that tube is matched to go into the sump. That hose is larer than the return hose and I would rather have the larger hose. This way, If I change my return pump to get more water moving through the system down there, I wont have to worry about the overflow keeping up.
 
Don't worry about my feelings, I was late to the party.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/200#post_3313886
Is the lid needed for suction? - No. The lid is there to keep crap out and I use it to place the lifter someplace
 
Does the lift need to run 24/7? - No. As 2Q stated, if you submerge the end in the back of the overflow it will create a syphon in the pump and you can turn it off. BUT, there is quite a few bubble build up within the "U" shaped overflow and those bubbles might stop the syphon. I run mine 24/7 just to be sure that the overflow doesnt stop.
 
Whats the coonection type to the overflow? - Well, the outside of mine is threaded and the tube i used was not going to fit inside the bulkhead. I had to go on the outside of the overflow's bulkhead. Am I going to take it apart and look at the inside? Not right now. When I clean everything again, prolly friday, I will do this. I cant change my tube though as that tube is matched to go into the sump. That hose is larer than the return hose and I would rather have the larger hose. This way, If I change my return pump to get more water moving through the system down there, I wont have to worry about the overflow keeping up.
 
Don't worry about my feelings, I was late to the party.
Sorry, I wasn't actually recommending that you should take apart your drain to check it. I was merely trying to point out that when in refference to bulkheads that Slip or Thread style refers to the inside of the bulkhead. I'm glad that you joined in this thread as any and everyones opinions are certainly welcome. Our goal as a team is to come up with the best design possible to give Flower a really kick a$$ set-up.
 
All bulkheads that are used in this hobby are basically threaded on the ouside for installation. I would however, like to mention for Flower's benefit or anyone else who might be following alongs benefit that simply adding a larger hose on the drain won't actually do anything to increase the amount of flow that your overflow is designed to handle. The best way to look at this would be to think of your bulkhead as a bottle neck. If you have a 3/4" and a 1" drain line then you're still only going to get the amount of water draining through there that the 3/4" bulkhead will allow to pass. I would suggest against installing the hose on the outside of the bulkead, if you intend to use a hose clamp you should be careful since those Sch. 40 bulkheads are easy to crack. The slip style is design for installing a pvp pipe in the bottom of them so that you can run a pvc drain or attatch the proper fittings in order to use vinyl.
 
The best and probably the only way to increase the output of your overflow would be to simply enlarge the drain opening on the overflow in order to step up to the next biggest size bulkhead. Assuming that the back box on the overlow had the room to do so. It would be simple to do and would be a great way to insure that you're actually achieving the maximum amount of drainage that your overflow will give you. You'd have to take into account the actual size of the overflow as well, and how much water the U shaped channel will allow to pass. But I think you could just to the next biggest size bulkhead with no probs. At the very least it's a little extra piece of mind.
 

monsinour

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/200#post_3313886
Whats the coonection type to the overflow? - Well, the outside of mine is threaded and the tube i used was not going to fit inside the bulkhead. I had to go on the outside of the overflow's bulkhead. Am I going to take it apart and look at the inside? Not right now. When I clean everything again, prolly friday, I will do this. I cant change my tube though as that tube is matched to go into the sump. That hose is larer than the return hose and I would rather have the larger hose. This way, If I change my return pump to get more water moving through the system down there, I wont have to worry about the overflow keeping up.
How wrong am I? The drain hose started leaking today so I got the opportunity to take apart the overflow. The outside is threaded and it is not a standard size. I was at Lowes looking for a PVC connector to screw onto the overflow with ribs on the other end to place the tubing onto. The sizes at Lowes were 1" and 1.25" and neither one worked. 1" was just too small and 1.25" was just too big. If it came in 1.125" then I am sure that would have worked without an issue. So for me to fix my overflow problem, I purchased 1" tubing, heated it in the water (thanks for the advice whomever posted that!) and then slipped it on over the threads. I then used my O clamp and tightened the clamp over the hose. Been running now for a while and no leaks. The 1" hose would not fit inside the bulkhead and I tried a .75" hose and it was too small to go inside the bulkhead. So this just might put a monkey wrench into the plans unless CPR uses different bulkheads on their larger models.
HOWEVER, when I was searching for the overflow, there was a site that sold hose specifically for this overflow. I didnt purchase it as I though it would be standard sizes and that it was a money making scheme to overcharge for standard tubing. Turns out, it might have been a good idea to get that tubing instead.
================
@2q - I see your point about the bottle neck and whatnot. I was refering to keeping the hose incase I were to change the return pump on my system. Currently the overflow is working just fine as it drains the exact same as what the pump is putting back into the DT. If I were to change my return pump to put more water per hour back into the DT, the overflow could handle most of it and the hose would be able to work just fine. As it turns out, the damn hose leaked and I had to get a new one. So now I am tossing the hose I wanted to keep. wahoo?
@ all - Not sure how the return was going to work, but that is my experience with the bulkhead on the CS50. Again, not sure if they use the same ones on the larger units or not.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/200#post_3313984
How wrong am I? The drain hose started leaking today so I got the opportunity to take apart the overflow. The outside is threaded and it is not a standard size. I was at Lowes looking for a PVC connector to screw onto the overflow with ribs on the other end to place the tubing onto. The sizes at Lowes were 1" and 1.25" and neither one worked. 1" was just too small and 1.25" was just too big. If it came in 1.125" then I am sure that would have worked without an issue. So for me to fix my overflow problem, I purchased 1" tubing, heated it in the water (thanks for the advice whomever posted that!) and then slipped it on over the threads. I then used my O clamp and tightened the clamp over the hose. Been running now for a while and no leaks. The 1" hose would not fit inside the bulkhead and I tried a .75" hose and it was too small to go inside the bulkhead. So this just might put a monkey wrench into the plans unless CPR uses different bulkheads on their larger models.
HOWEVER, when I was searching for the overflow, there was a site that sold hose specifically for this overflow. I didnt purchase it as I though it would be standard sizes and that it was a money making scheme to overcharge for standard tubing. Turns out, it might have been a good idea to get that tubing instead.
================
@2q - I see your point about the bottle neck and whatnot. I was refering to keeping the hose incase I were to change the return pump on my system. Currently the overflow is working just fine as it drains the exact same as what the pump is putting back into the DT. If I were to change my return pump to put more water per hour back into the DT, the overflow could handle most of it and the hose would be able to work just fine. As it turns out, the damn hose leaked and I had to get a new one. So now I am tossing the hose I wanted to keep. wahoo?
@ all - Not sure how the return was going to work, but that is my experience with the bulkhead on the CS50. Again, not sure if they use the same ones on the larger units or not.
Thanks, Monsinour!
I just happend to watch your video and noticed you were running that flex hose that looks like a vacuum hose. Initially I thought you might have been using the clear vinyl stuff. The bulkheads on the CS50 are 3/4". If you ever want to change over your hose again and ensure a tight fit then you can always get a short piece of 3/4" pipe, glue on a 3/4 slip x 3/4 mpt adapter and screw a 3/4" fpt hose barb adapter on to that. Then glue the whole thing into the bulkhead. That would ensure a tight fit and no leaks. Ofcorse this would require 3/4" hose. See picture below for a visual description.
And I'm sure you already know this but if you ever do switch over to a larger pump just be mindful of how much water it's going to put back into the tank. Personally the thought of putting 275 gallons per hour into a tank that can only drain 300 gallons per hour kind of makes me nervous...you don't have much room for error if your overflow happens to get a blockage somewhere. That could be an ugly mess waiting to happen. I'm a firm believe in the idea that you can never have too much drainage capability.
 

meowzer

Moderator
YES....I have a cleaning brush that is on a long nylon :string"......I clean my overflow pipes weekly.....you would be surprised how quickly stuff builds up in them
another one of the GREATEST purchased I ever made
 
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