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bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans#post_3302016
Yet you plce your trust in Obama still.......how is our economy doing by the way? Unemployment go down yet?
 
I never said I put my trust in the guy. I said I liked his platform and viewpoints as to how we could get ourselves out of the hole we dug ourselves in during the last two years of the Bush regime. His concepts looked good on paper, but until you have the opportunity to actually implement those plans, you never know how they'll turn out. Your problem is, you want instantaneous results. Obama admitted going in that it would takes years before you saw positive results from his plans. The Republicans and Conservatives don't want to accept that. If you have some Grand Plan that you think will turn our economy and employment statistics around in 6 - 12 months, by all means bring them up and run for office. I could honestly care less who the Figure Head is sitting in the Oval Office when that occurs.
 
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302027
I never said I put my trust in the guy. I said I liked his platform and viewpoints as to how we could get ourselves out of the hole we dug ourselves in during the last two years of the Bush regime. His concepts looked good on paper, but until you have the opportunity to actually implement those plans, you never know how they'll turn out. Your problem is, you want instantaneous results. Obama admitted going in that it would takes years before you saw positive results from his plans. The Republicans and Conservatives don't want to accept that. If you have some Grand Plan that you think will turn our economy and employment statistics around in 6 - 12 months, by all means bring them up and run for office. I could honestly care less who the Figure Head is sitting in the Oval Office when that occurs.
 
How is increasing the debt faster than Bush did anything but the status quo? Obama talked a good line during the campaign but unfortunately the press never asked any pesky questions like, how you gonna do it.
 
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302033
How is increasing the debt faster than Bush did anything but the status quo? Obama talked a good line during the campaign but unfortunately the press never asked any pesky questions like, how you gonna do it.
 
He outlined how he was going to do it in his campaign, but at the same time, he said it may take as long as 10 years before you see any positive results. If I recall, he said if he had let it stay "status quo", continuing Bush's policies he left in place when he left office, the Federal Deficit would grow to some trillion dollar amount over the next ten years. With the policies he wanted to implement, his plan would reduce that same deficit amount by 20% or more over the same 10 years. Problem is, the plans he had looked good on paper, and theoretically they appeared they would work based on how similar plans had been implented in past economies. Unfortunately, they apparently backfired and did the opposite. Why was that? Consumer confidence? Investors leary to let go of their money? Businesses not willing to divest or spend money to grow? Unless you get the cooperation from the public and business sector to go along with your plans, they will ultimately fail no matter what you throw at them.
 
mrdc

mrdc

Active Member
Never mind. Was testing to see if I could post today. Not sure why I can post some days and not others.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302040
He outlined how he was going to do it in his campaign, but at the same time, he said it may take as long as 10 years before you see any positive results. If I recall, he said if he had let it stay "status quo", continuing Bush's policies he left in place when he left office, the Federal Deficit would grow to some trillion dollar amount over the next ten years. With the policies he wanted to implement, his plan would reduce that same deficit amount by 20% or more over the same 10 years. Problem is, the plans he had looked good on paper, and theoretically they appeared they would work based on how similar plans had been implented in past economies. Unfortunately, they apparently backfired and did the opposite. Why was that? Consumer confidence? Investors leary to let go of their money? Businesses not willing to divest or spend money to grow? Unless you get the cooperation from the public and business sector to go along with your plans, they will ultimately fail no matter what you throw at them.
Lack of confidence in leadership is the reason businesses aren't investing at the moment. Uncertainty is a bear. They don't know how many millions Obamacare is going to cost them, they don't know what the tax structure will be next year, regulation etc.
 
Unless the Dems do something one way or the other with the tax cuts watch out. Come late fall or early winter you'll see the market take a serious drop from people cashing out to take advantage of the lower capital gains this year.
 
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302040
He outlined how he was going to do it in his campaign, but at the same time, he said it may take as long as 10 years before you see any positive results. If I recall, he said if he had let it stay "status quo", continuing Bush's policies he left in place when he left office, the Federal Deficit would grow to some trillion dollar amount over the next ten years. With the policies he wanted to implement, his plan would reduce that same deficit amount by 20% or more over the same 10 years. Problem is, the plans he had looked good on paper, and theoretically they appeared they would work based on how similar plans had been implented in past economies. Unfortunately, they apparently backfired and did the opposite. Why was that? Consumer confidence? Investors leary to let go of their money? Businesses not willing to divest or spend money to grow? Unless you get the cooperation from the public and business sector to go along with your plans, they will ultimately fail no matter what you throw at them.
Really?
 
look at the misery index for the past 60 years. Your boy is 3rd in line for having the worst misery index climb out of all the presidents for the past 60 years. His ideas did NOT work in the past....his ideas are mirrored by Carter who had a higher misery index. Strangely enough you comment on the Bush "regime" yet his misery index remained flat. Right now the only thing Obama has managed to do is somehow keep inflation down.....otherwise he would have the worst misery index in recent history.
 
I LOVE how you say his ideas looked good on paper...what paper? You dont place the blame at his feet, you place it at the feet of corporate America...Isn't it his job to get corporate America to feel all "fuzzy" ab out what he is doing. Clinton was able to do this no problem....so you cant blame corporate america...or say it is because corporate america supports republicans....the bottomline, his idea do not work..and you can't see that. by this time in the clinton, reagan, and even bush presidency the economy and was picking up and the misery index was in decline. Under Obama it has only climbed.....
 
How in the h e double hockey sticks would Palin (whom I don't like in a leadership role) been any better. Everyone railed on her "foreign Policy" experience...yet n one of you comment about Obama's...who had just as much. His foreign policy has been horrible...globe walking and kissing ass has done us no good...afghanistan is worse....Iran has their nuke facility...N. Korea is threatening attacks....yeah he has done a bang up job.
 
He can't even claim credit for Iraq....especially since he and all the other democrats said it was unwinable....
 
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302073
 
Really?
 
look at the misery index for the past 60 years. Your boy is 3rd in line for having the worst misery index climb out of all the presidents for the past 60 years. His ideas did NOT work in the past....his ideas are mirrored by Carter who had a higher misery index. Strangely enough you comment on the Bush "regime" yet his misery index remained flat. Right now the only thing Obama has managed to do is somehow keep inflation down.....otherwise he would have the worst misery index in recent history.
 
I LOVE how you say his ideas looked good on paper...what paper? You dont place the blame at his feet, you place it at the feet of corporate America...Isn't it his job to get corporate America to feel all "fuzzy" ab out what he is doing. Clinton was able to do this no problem....so you cant blame corporate america...or say it is because corporate america supports republicans....the bottomline, his idea do not work..and you can't see that. by this time in the clinton, reagan, and even bush presidency the economy and was picking up and the misery index was in decline. Under Obama it has only climbed.....
 
How in the h e double hockey sticks would Palin (whom I don't like in a leadership role) been any better. Everyone railed on her "foreign Policy" experience...yet n one of you comment about Obama's...who had just as much. His foreign policy has been horrible...globe walking and kissing ass has done us no good...afghanistan is worse....Iran has their nuke facility...N. Korea is threatening attacks....yeah he has done a bang up job.
 
He can't even claim credit for Iraq....especially since he and all the other democrats said it was unwinable....
 
Look, you're a staunch Ultra Conservative whose going to rail against anyone that doesn't follow your mantra. Yes, I do blame corporate America to some extent for the failures in his policies. I also blame the Republicans and their use of today's technology and media. If you tell someone enough times that a policy won't work, and you constantly fllod every media outlet with Doom and Gloom, the gullible people in this country are going to believe it. The Republican Party has turned into Chicken Little, and they convinced everyone that Obama's sky has fallen. Bush's index remained flat? Then why in the h e double hockey sticks did we fall into a major Recession/Depression during the last two years of his term? Are you actually going to say we weren't in a spiraling downfall until Obama came into office?
 
Sarah Palin is a blowhard idiot, plain and simple. The backwoods Alaskan's who live in the dark 5 months out of the year may have believed in her song and dance routine, but when the only comfort you have in an Alaskan winter is a Husky or a Moose, what else would you expect.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302078
 
Look, you're a staunch Ultra Conservative whose going to rail against anyone that doesn't follow your mantra. Yes, I do blame corporate America to some extent for the failures in his policies. I also blame the Republicans and their use of today's technology and media. If you tell someone enough times that a policy won't work, and you constantly fllod every media outlet with Doom and Gloom, the gullible people in this country are going to believe it. The Republican Party has turned into Chicken Little, and they convinced everyone that Obama's sky has fallen. Bush's index remained flat? Then why in the h e double hockey sticks did we fall into a major Recession/Depression during the last two years of his term? Are you actually going to say we weren't in a spiraling downfall until Obama came into office?
 
Sarah Palin is a blowhard idiot, plain and simple. The backwoods Alaskan's who live in the dark 5 months out of the year may have believed in her song and dance routine, but when the only comfort you have in an Alaskan winter is a Husky or a Moose, what else would you expect.
Once again your perception of me is as wrong as you are about our current President. I voted for and supportted clinton his second term. Bob Dole was a douche...I may be conservative..but i am not a moron............Otherwise I would have voted for mccain or Obama, which I didn't.......
 
When Bush took office...the misery index was at 7.93...when he left it was at 7.49 I call that flat through his term. meaning he left us virtually no worse off than we were before he took office...a little better even. since obama took office it has risen to 10.74. meaning since he has taken office the country's misery index has done nothing but climb higher....meaning if he were to leave office today...he will leave the country in worse shape than it was when he got it.
 
Lets try something...how many years would you give a football coach of your pro team before you got mad at his losing record? Even if the team was bad in the first place? Example...the first year jimmy johnson took over dallas 1-15...they got worse...but hey things were bad and needed fixed. the next year..7-9...significant improvement....the next...11-5...significant improvement again.
 
Obama I give his first ear as not his fault and no blame on him..gets a pass..trying to fix things...year two........uh we have same results...losing....year three....projections not looking good...THE GUY CAN NOT LEAD!! But he throws one heck of a party...(community organizing).
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Not to sound politically ignorant, but what is a "misery index", and could Bush have possibly left the country in better shape than when he got it?
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he get the country at the peak of a solid economy? I don't think when he left in 2008 that the country was anywhere near where it was when he got it in 2000. I'm not trying to argue, but for anyone to say the country was in better shape after he left has to be a little (or a lot) misled. Yes, I know 9/11 happened, but that still doesn't make the statement any less true...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302078
 
Look, you're a staunch Ultra Conservative whose going to rail against anyone that doesn't follow your mantra. Yes, I do blame corporate America to some extent for the failures in his policies. I also blame the Republicans and their use of today's technology and media. If you tell someone enough times that a policy won't work, and you constantly fllod every media outlet with Doom and Gloom, the gullible people in this country are going to believe it. The Republican Party has turned into Chicken Little, and they convinced everyone that Obama's sky has fallen. Bush's index remained flat? Then why in the h e double hockey sticks did we fall into a major Recession/Depression during the last two years of his term? Are you actually going to say we weren't in a spiraling downfall until Obama came into office?
Sarah Palin is a blowhard idiot, plain and simple. The backwoods Alaskan's who live in the dark 5 months out of the year may have believed in her song and dance routine, but when the only comfort you have in an Alaskan winter is a Husky or a Moose, what else would you expect.
If I lived in Texas I wouldn't be talking about anyone else being a backwoods hick.

 
So when all the Democrats were talking about the economy heading into recession since the 2004 election season started in late 03 is different than the Republicans saying Obama's policies wont work how? Remember the Social Security reform debate of 06? Democrats saying it wouldn't work, what was their alternative solution?
 
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302099
Not to sound politically ignorant, but what is a "misery index", and could Bush have possibly left the country in better shape than when he got it?
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he get the country at the peak of a solid economy? I don't think when he left in 2008 that the country was anywhere near where it was when he got it in 2000. I'm not trying to argue, but for anyone to say the country was in better shape after he left has to be a little (or a lot) misled. Yes, I know 9/11 happened, but that still doesn't make the statement any less true...
It's a combination of unemployment and inflation. It was created in the mid 70's I believe, which was a pretty miserable time in America, worse than now contrary to what you hear in the media. double digit unemployment, double digit inflation AND double digit interest rates on things like car loans and home loans.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302099
Not to sound politically ignorant, but what is a "misery index", and could Bush have possibly left the country in better shape than when he got it?
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he get the country at the peak of a solid economy? I don't think when he left in 2008 that the country was anywhere near where it was when he got it in 2000. I'm not trying to argue, but for anyone to say the country was in better shape after he left has to be a little (or a lot) misled. Yes, I know 9/11 happened, but that still doesn't make the statement any less true...
Reef already pointed out what the misery index is. To me it is a greater view of the state of the country. You were young at near the end of the clinton term..while the economy had not started its downhill slide it was heading into a small recession at the end of his term..mainly in the manufacturing field. profits were still decent and the market wasn't affected significantly..but companies were starting layoffs...I saw the company i worked for at the time lay off 25% of its employees and then do a second layoff of 15% after bush took office a couple months later.....things were starting to slide..the tech bubble had bursted (similar to our recent housing bubble)....
 
Bush inherited the beginning of a recession much like Obama....it was stopped quickly then 9/11 hit and we had another for about a year...after that nothing significant till the last half to quarter of his final year.....when it is all said and done the misery index was a little better than when he FIRST took office.not much...but still better.
 
I prefer the misery index as inflation shows the greater extent of policies and the affect on businesses as well as the unemployed...if inflation is high..people buy less and thus companies do worse...also those that may be employed can't afford as much..hence the term "misery"....if inflation starts to rise Obama will have major problems. The only thing i believe keeping inflation down is our overseas purchasing.....I noticed inflation was highest during our manufactuiring days.....might be a correlation..might not....but I believe bringing those overseas jobs back would increase inflation...thus keeping the misery index the same if not worse as the cost of goods would increase dramatically.
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Back to the original posters point. The gentleman who has the largest share of News Corp outside of Murdoch himself is the same gentleman who heads the group that is funding a large part of the proposed mosque. So when FOX News demonizes the group, they are in essence pillaging one of their biggest shareholders. You would think that's a poor business decision, but wait, we're talking about FOX News here. On all of the shows that reported the "Kingdom Foundation", they simply refer to him as "he". As in "he funds these terrorist groups", and "he finances the Kingdom Foundation"... What they fail to mention, is that Alwaleed bin Talal is the "he", and that he is also the "he" who owns a large part of News Corp, their parent company.
 
I don't know if that's more insulting to their viewers, or to the people on the left who they apparently thought wouldn't notice this little slip?
 
If I was an avid viewer of FOX News, I would be highly insulted that they think that little of me.
 
And yes, I know that anyone can buy stock, but this guy is personally in bed with Murdoch, and a lot of other conservatives. So let's not play the "they don't control who buys their stock" card, because that is an extremely weak argument.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I find it amusing that left-wingers are trying to beat up right-wingers over the right not wanting the mosque built, but not once seeing the irony that in NY city the opposition to the mosque is 70%. I didn't realize NYC was a bastion of right-wing thinking. Oh, I get it, when a community isn't "tolerant" enough, we'll blame the Republicans and the right, cause they (through FOX news) are manipulating the normally sane left-wingers of New York(?). Sorry, you flaming lefties are trying to blame FOX news and the right for something your allies on the left are leading. If you think what I wrote is confusing, it's because you lefties aren't making ANY sense trying to blame the right for this one.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302139
I find it amusing that left-wingers are trying to beat up right-wingers over the right not wanting the mosque built, but not once seeing the irony that in NY city the opposition to the mosque is 70%. I didn't realize NYC was a bastion of right-wing thinking. Oh, I get it, when a community isn't "tolerant" enough, we'll blame the Republicans and the right, cause they (through FOX news) are manipulating the normally sane left-wingers of New York(?). Sorry, you flaming lefties are trying to blame FOX news and the right for something your allies on the left are leading. If you think what I wrote is confusing, it's because you lefties aren't making ANY sense trying to blame the right for this one.
No, New Yorkers just walk up to a guy, ask if they're Muslim, then start stabbing them with a knife. And yes, practically everything you wrote made no sense.
 
This mosque debacle is a lose-lose situation for New York. I guarantee you that if they go forward with building that place, the New York crazies will burn the place down in a month. If I were a practicing Muslim in New York, I wouldn't get within a mile of that place with my family. It's destined for disaster before it even gets built.
 
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtaco http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302168
Darth have you done any research on Bin Talal at all? Take a look around and google Bin Talal Islamist connections for a start.
 
Fishtaco
 
Have you? I'd say having centers at Harvard and Georgetown are points in his favor. Seems to do a lot of charity work as well. Got a credible link about him being tied to terrorists or is it just tha fact he is Muslim that offends you?
 
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///forum/thread/379731/for-fox-news-fans/20#post_3302115
Back to the original posters point. The gentleman who has the largest share of News Corp outside of Murdoch himself is the same gentleman who heads the group that is funding a large part of the proposed mosque. So when FOX News demonizes the group, they are in essence pillaging one of their biggest shareholders. You would think that's a poor business decision, but wait, we're talking about FOX News here. On all of the shows that reported the "Kingdom Foundation", they simply refer to him as "he". As in "he funds these terrorist groups", and "he finances the Kingdom Foundation"... What they fail to mention, is that Alwaleed bin Talal is the "he", and that he is also the "he" who owns a large part of News Corp, their parent company.
 
I don't know if that's more insulting to their viewers, or to the people on the left who they apparently thought wouldn't notice this little slip?
 
If I was an avid viewer of FOX News, I would be highly insulted that they think that little of me.
 
And yes, I know that anyone can buy stock, but this guy is personally in bed with Murdoch, and a lot of other conservatives. So let's not play the "they don't control who buys their stock" card, because that is an extremely weak argument.
I have seen nothing about the guy being in bed with Murdoch and really don't care. What I care about is unlike the liberal slanted media FOX has the integrity to run with an important story even if it means offending a very large shareholder. Now if Fox was ignoring the story you would have a valid point.
 
 
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