Gauging Interest!!!! People Interested in DIY LED Builds?????

acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Thanks Corey for doing all the hard explaining.....Both Jon and Robert have been a great help in these area.....As I had mentioned before Corey has be tutoring me getting me back up to speed on things.....
I don't know if it was in this thread, but the real planning has to start with deciding which LEDs your going to use for your build....Being that the XP-G's have a different forward voltage, than the XP-E's. and the forward voltage will change depending how hard you drive your LEDS as well.
For example....
XP-G LEDs being run @ 350ma have a forward voltage of 3.0
700ma " " " " " 3.2
1000ma " " " " " 3.3
XP-E LEDs being run @ 350ma have a forward voltage of 3.0
700 ma " " " " " 3.15
1000ma " " " " " 3.25
XR-E LEDs being run @ 350ma have a forward voltage of 3.3
700ma " " " ": " 3.5
1000ma " " " " " 3.7
MeanWell Drivers.....The HLG's are advantageous for the mere fact they have the 3 in 1 dimming capability.....
HLG-185H-42B HLG-185H-48B
constant current region 21- 42V 24-48V
Rated Current 4.4a 3.9a
Voltage Adjustment Range 38-46V 43-54V
Efficiency Rating 94% 94%
So again to start your initial planning you would need to decide on your LEDs. Then figure roughly the amount you need. Then you start looking at the drivers that would fit the bill.
Depending on your LED you would add up your forward voltages.....lets use the XP-G as a guide.....Lets assume we are going to drive them at 700ma.....With that known what we will drive them at we know the forward voltage is 3.2v. Lets say we want to run 14 LEDs in a "string"
3.2 x 14 = 44.8v. Now we know that the 44.8v exceeds the HLG-185H-42B capabilities, so we then know if we want to run 14 in a string we could use the HLG-185H-48B, and it still leaves us headroom on the driver. You can determine how many strings you can run in parallel by taking the "Rated Current" of 3.9/by how many strings.....If you take 3.9/5 strings your strings would be running at roughly 780ma.....to bring are driving current down we could add another string for a total of 6 and again you would take 3.9/6 and you would be driving them at roughly 650ma.....
Just a quick idea of what is involved at sizing the driver, but hopefully Corey or anyone else will step in and correct me where I'm wrong and teach me as well.......
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/386377/gauging-interest-people-interested-in-diy-led-builds/40#post_3394436
Thanks Corey for doing all the hard explaining.....Both Jon and Robert have been a great help in these area.....As I had mentioned before Corey has be tutoring me getting me back up to speed on things.....
I don't know if it was in this thread, but the real planning has to start with deciding which LEDs your going to use for your build....Being that the XP-G's have a different forward voltage, than the XP-E's. and the forward voltage will change depending how hard you drive your LEDS as well.
For example....
XP-G LEDs being run @ 350ma have a forward voltage of 3.0
700ma " " " " " 3.2
1000ma " " " " " 3.3
XP-E LEDs being run @ 350ma have a forward voltage of 3.0
700 ma " " " " " 3.15
1000ma " " " " " 3.25
XR-E LEDs being run @ 350ma have a forward voltage of 3.3
700ma " " " ": " 3.5
1000ma " " " " " 3.7
MeanWell Drivers.....The HLG's are advantageous for the mere fact they have the 3 in 1 dimming capability.....
HLG-185H-42B HLG-185H-48B
constant current region 21- 42V 24-48V
Rated Current 4.4a 3.9a
Voltage Adjustment Range 38-46V 43-54V
Efficiency Rating 94% 94%
So again to start your initial planning you would need to decide on your LEDs. Then figure roughly the amount you need. Then you start looking at the drivers that would fit the bill.
Depending on your LED you would add up your forward voltages.....lets use the XP-G as a guide.....Lets assume we are going to drive them at 700ma.....With that known what we will drive them at we know the forward voltage is 3.2v. Lets say we want to run 14 LEDs in a "string"
3.2 x 14 = 44.8v. Now we know that the 44.8v exceeds the HLG-185H-42B capabilities, so we then know if we want to run 14 in a string we could use the HLG-185H-48B, and it still leaves us headroom on the driver. You can determine how many strings you can run in parallel by taking the "Rated Current" of 3.9/by how many strings.....If you take 3.9/5 strings your strings would be running at roughly 780ma.....to bring are driving current down we could add another string for a total of 6 and again you would take 3.9/6 and you would be driving them at roughly 650ma.....
Just a quick idea of what is involved at sizing the driver, but hopefully Corey or anyone else will step in and correct me where I'm wrong and teach me as well.......

Nope, I think you hit the nail on the head, Shawn. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I would opt to leave at least a little bit of head room on the voltage as you mentioned as well as the current. So for anyone looking to drive 6 strings of 14 (84 leds per driver) at the maximum 650mA should understand that the drivers will run hot being pushed at their max current rating. This may equate to less life expectancy in the long run. So a little bit of head room in both the voltage and the current range is a good thing to help keep your drivers running cooler and lasting longer. Same with the leds. Driving them under their maximum current rating will help keep them cooler and maximize life expectancy as well.
 
cipher43

cipher43

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/386377/gauging-interest-people-interested-in-diy-led-builds/20#post_3394419
Meanwell decided to end up producing the H version only and not do the non H version. That's per Jon Landau at Peak Power. The diference was that the non H version would have been rated for 90-264Vac, where as the H version is rated for 90-305Vac input. You're going to be using 120Vac input from your house so the difference wouldn't matter in our case anyways. So regardless of whatever websites say you would end up with the H version.
My 120g is a slightly different footprint than yours I believe. Mine is a 120G Long 60"x18" footprint. I think yours is 48"x24", yes? Going by the ratio provided by reefledlights.com if you want to keep sps then you should go with at least 1 led for every 15 square inches of surface area which would be 76 leds. I'm shooting for probably 80 leds on my build.
yes i do have the 48x24x24 tank. i guess i should shoot for 80 also then.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher43 http:///forum/thread/386377/gauging-interest-people-interested-in-diy-led-builds/40#post_3394445
yes i do have the 48x24x24 tank. i guess i should shoot for 80 also then.
It wouldn't hurt to go a little more then that. The good thing about being able to dim the output down is that you can go with more leds for good coverage and just turn them down if they're too much light. I was trying to get my design down to 80 to try and save a little cash but realistically I may end up close to a hundred. I've got a whole notebook of graph paper full of nothing but led combinations and designs, I just need to pick one. My latest and greatest design would utilize 90 leds.
 
monsinour

monsinour

Active Member
Imma do 12 or 24 LEDs on my ity bitty 10G. I think one driver will do me just fine. Its prolly gonna be 12 as I dont think I could afford 24.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/386377/gauging-interest-people-interested-in-diy-led-builds/40#post_3394447
It wouldn't hurt to go a little more then that. The good thing about being able to dim the output down is that you can go with more leds for good coverage and just turn them down if they're too much light. I was trying to get my design down to 80 to try and save a little cash but realistically I may end up close to a hundred. I've got a whole notebook of graph paper full of nothing but led combinations and designs, I just need to pick one. My latest and greatest design would utilize 90 leds.
Let's see some designs........I have seen a design, but unsure what the affects would actually be....Haven't seen it used to much, but want to run it by you at some point......
I didn't ask Robert this the other day, but I'm under the assumption that the driver voltage can be adjusted down internally???? If you go to the spec sheet for the HLG-185's and look at the cross reference it has a #6 and says "Type A"??? So my question is, if it can't be adjusted internal, how would you go about dialing down the voltage?
Actually I think the 42B is a better fit depending how many strings you want to drive....I'd have to drop 1 LED per string, but could get my driving ability closer to 700ma......How much head room do they say to give? Using the 42B's running the XP-G's @ 13 per string I'd be roughly 41.6v. At 6 strings would run something like 730ma, so I'm thinking I'd have to run 7 strings @ 628ma to make it work?????
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/386377/gauging-interest-people-interested-in-diy-led-builds/40#post_3394454
Shawn I just noticed the the XP-E voltage is not correct on what you posted. According to the data sheet they should be...
XP-E For Royal Blue's
350mA - 3.2v
700mA - 3.4v
1000mA - 3.5v
Then the greens and reds are different voltages all together for those.
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/xlampxp-e.pdf
Sorry....I was looking at the high efficiency leds.......
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXP-E-HEW.pdf
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/386377/gauging-interest-people-interested-in-diy-led-builds/40#post_3394451
Let's see some designs........I have seen a design, but unsure what the affects would actually be....Haven't seen it used to much, but want to run it by you at some point......
I didn't ask Robert this the other day, but I'm under the assumption that the driver voltage can be adjusted down internally???? If you go to the spec sheet for the HLG-185's and look at the cross reference it has a #6 and says "Type A"??? So my question is, if it can't be adjusted internal, how would you go about dialing down the voltage?
Actually I think the 42B is a better fit depending how many strings you want to drive....I'd have to drop 1 LED per string, but could get my driving ability closer to 700ma......How much head room do they say to give? Using the 42B's running the XP-G's @ 13 per string I'd be roughly 41.6v. At 6 strings would run something like 730ma, so I'm thinking I'd have to run 7 strings @ 628ma to make it work?????

I think I'm gonna work up a google sketch for my latest one. When I get it done I'll post it up.
Shawn the way I understand it is that only the (A) versions have internal adjustments for voltage and current. The (B) versions do not. Typically like on the ELN drivers most guys never touch the voltage pot. But it is possible on them to turn the voltage down if you have extra room in order to get a little more current. For instance on the ELN 60-48's, you can adjust the voltage pot down and squeez 1.4 amps out of them instead of the 1.3 that they are rated at. But again you are pushing the current and running them hot. If you have a good way to cool them then that would be helpful. It's probably a matter of personal choice. The ELN drivers are a a lot cheaper so replacing them more often might not be an issue for some.
Head room would probably be best to leave a couple of volts at least. It just depends. When guys get their fixtures up and going and do actual voltage testing on the leds there are some that are different. For instance if you are driving your xp-g's at 700mA...you might find some running at 3.2v, some might be running at 3.1v and some might be running at 3.25v. This is because the resistance in each is not always perfectly the same. So if you happen to have more than a few than are operating a little bit higher than spec then it's best to have that little extra head room just in case.
And that is why you will want to balance your strings when running them in parallel to keep them as close to being even as possible.
Edit: Also, on the HLG (A) version drivers, the internal pots can be adjusted without having to open up the case. They are on the surface of the case. If that makes sense.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/386377/gauging-interest-people-interested-in-diy-led-builds/40#post_3394453
You gonna spot me the extra $?
Internally there should be an adjustment screew. There is a video on youtube on how to adjust the meanwells.
On which drivers??? I was under the assumption if your looking at the 60-48's the internal adjustment was for voltage not; dimming purposes for your LEDS
. If you tie them all to 1 driver, you don't give yourself infinite control over each individual color. For a smaller LED build like your talking there are cheaper alternatives for that .....
http://reefledlights.com/shop/mean-well-lpc-35-700/
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/386377/gauging-interest-people-interested-in-diy-led-builds/40#post_3394458
Ahh..well in that case it would be good to know exactly which leds you are ordering.

It confused me when I initially looked at the sheet.....I guess when ordering depending on the "bin" would indicate if they are regular or high efficiency????? I think that was the only LED with 2 different spec sheets. I just automatically assumed you'd want to run the higher quality?????
Just did a double check and that is the only "class" of LEDs with 2 types.....
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/386377/gauging-interest-people-interested-in-diy-led-builds/40#post_3394457
I think I'm gonna work up a google sketch for my latest one. When I get it done I'll post it up.
Shawn the way I understand it is that only the (A) versions have internal adjustments for voltage and current. The (B) versions do not. Typically like on the ELN drivers most guys never touch the voltage pot. But it is possible on them to turn the voltage down if you have extra room in order to get a little more current. For instance on the ELN 60-48's, you can adjust the voltage pot down and squeez 1.4 amps out of them instead of the 1.3 that they are rated at. But again you are pushing the current and running them hot. If you have a good way to cool them then that would be helpful. It's probably a matter of personal choice. The ELN drivers are a a lot cheaper so replacing them more often might not be an issue for some.
Head room would probably be best to leave a couple of volts at least. It just depends. When guys get their fixtures up and going and do actual voltage testing on the leds there are some that are different. For instance if you are driving your xp-g's at 700mA...you might find some running at 3.2v, some might be running at 3.1v and some might be running at 3.25v. This is because the resistance in each is not always perfectly the same. So if you happen to have more than a few than are operating a little bit higher than spec then it's best to have that little extra head room just in case.
And that is why you will want to balance your strings when running them in parallel to keep them as close to being even as possible.
Edit: Also, on the HLG (A) version drivers, the internal pots can be adjusted without having to open up the case. They are on the surface of the case. If that makes sense.
Makes sense!!!!! I have been doing a little reading on balancing strings, which Kcress did a super job explaining the process.....Not real complicated IMHO.....
Actually I'm pretty content on the HLG-185-48's......Actually the 48B's are a bit cheaper. Do you think I'd really notice driving the LEDs at 650ma vs 700ma????
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/386377/gauging-interest-people-interested-in-diy-led-builds/40#post_3394459
On which drivers??? I was under the assumption if your looking at the 60-48's the internal adjustment was for voltage not; dimming purposes for your LEDS
. If you tie them all to 1 driver, you don't give yourself infinite control over each individual color. For a smaller LED build like your talking there are cheaper alternatives for that .....
http://reefledlights.com/shop/mean-well-lpc-35-700/
They have two, one for voltage and one for current. When first firing up the fixture it is recommend to turn the current pot almost all the way down in order to not fry anything on initial start up if something is wrong. Otherwise the current pot is what is used to set your driver at a specific maximum current. So in a sense it is also a dimming function.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/386377/gauging-interest-people-interested-in-diy-led-builds/40#post_3394462
Makes sense!!!!! I have been doing a little reading on balancing strings, which Kcress did a super job explaining the process.....Not real complicated IMHO.....
Actually I'm pretty content on the HLG-185-48's......Actually the 48B's are a bit cheaper. Do you think I'd really notice driving the LEDs at 650ma vs 700ma????

I think it's really just an afterthought if you have some good optics on there.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
On the 48B's I could run 14 XP-G's and have plenty of headroom.....15 LEDs would max me out right at 48v......
At 6 strings they would theoretically run @ 650ma vs running 5 strings running @ 780ma.....
Optics for sure.....Plan to buy quite a few and play around with them once it's built.
 
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