Gay Marriage, Abortion and other moral issue?

darthtang aw

Active Member
Are these really subjects a presidential candidate or congressional member should have to run under. I hear lots of talk about the erosion of values and the need to legislature laws to keep values intact. I may tend to vote republican but I feel these are two issues that should NEVER be legislatured. It is government intervention in my eyes. Since when should a government have to legislature moral values to it's citizens.
We as a society have lost our sense of morals I believe, but not at the behest of the government but at our own behest. If you wish to see certqain moral values instilled back into society, government is not the place or entity to do it. It starts and ends with how you raise your children and what values you instill in them.
I, for one, am tired of these side issues that seem to capture so much attention in politics and keep our eyes off the other issues that end up biting us, as citizens, in the rear repeatedly.
Just my thoughts
 

seasalt101

Active Member
only the part about abortion is relevant to government as a lot of abortions are paid for by tax dollars jmo...tobin
 

miaheatlvr

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Are these really subjects a presidential candidate or congressional member should have to run under. I hear lots of talk about the erosion of values and the need to legislature laws to keep values intact. I may tend to vote republican but I feel these are two issues that should NEVER be legislatured. It is government intervention in my eyes. Since when should a government have to legislature moral values to it's citizens.
We as a society have lost our sense of morals I believe, but not at the behest of the government but at our own behest. If you wish to see certqain moral values instilled back into society, government is not the place or entity to do it. It starts and ends with how you raise your children and what values you instill in them.
I, for one, am tired of these side issues that seem to capture so much attention in politics and keep our eyes off the other issues that end up biting us, as citizens, in the rear repeatedly.
Just my thoughts
These controversial threads get locked or deleted within hours because somebody will say something very "Not politically correct" or use "Defamatory language" Good Luck with it!
 

ric maniac

Active Member
i agree completely! who does the government think the are to dictate those kinds of things?! oh well just have to wait till bush is gone lol
 

aedeos

Member
As a political theorist, I'll weigh in on this in a bit when I'm not tied up and if this thread is open.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by seasalt101
only the part about abortion is relevant to government as a lot of abortions are paid for by tax dollars jmo...tobin

True, but where your tax dollars go do not reflect on the issue itself. Stop politicizing abortion and you will have people paying more attention to taxes and how other things are ran.
 

pontius

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Are these really subjects a presidential candidate or congressional member should have to run under.
absolutely not.
we are in the middle of a civil war and American soldiers are dying daily
we have terrorist sponsored countries trying to get nukes
we have a major illegal immigration problem
we have a healthcare problem
we have an education problem
as the baby boomers are starting to retire, we are going to have even more of a healthcare problem on top of social security problems
so abortion and gay marriage are completely dead, unimportant issues as far as I'm concerned. all these politicians are doing is tugging at peoples' heartstrings to take their attention off the real issues.
if you're pro-life, then don't have an abortion. if you're anti-gay marriage, then don't be gay and don't try to get married. if these things are sins in God's eyes, then God will be the one to judge.
 

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by Pontius
absolutely not.
we are in the middle of a civil war and American soldiers are dying daily
we have terrorist sponsored countries trying to get nukes
we have a major illegal immigration problem
we have a healthcare problem
we have an education problem
as the baby boomers are starting to retire, we are going to have even more of a healthcare problem on top of social security problems
so abortion and gay marriage are completely dead, unimportant issues as far as I'm concerned. all these politicians are doing is tugging at peoples' heartstrings to take their attention off the real issues.
if you're pro-life, then don't have an abortion. if you're anti-gay marriage, then don't be gay and don't try to get married. if these things are sins in God's eyes, then God will be the one to judge.
couldnt have said it better myself, normally I avoid these political threads like the plague, but I read this post, and couldnt possibly agree more.
 

seasalt101

Active Member
bottom line is the democrats are going to push for legal abortion the republicans will try to stop it the church will therefore back the republicans, darth you just trying to push your anti-party stance?
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
No, I am trying to get Americans to stop being blinded by issues that won't affect their lives and start paying attention to what does.
 

jmick

Active Member
Very good thread! I agree that abortion and gay marriage are not issues our politicans should run under or base their campaigns on....some of the above posters had great lists of real issues we need to focus on.
As far as gay marriage goes, I could care less...if two people love each other and are happy who cares (if they pay taxes like the rest of us they should have the same rights). however, I despise abortions and thought makes me sick but there are times when I guess it is an option...I guess.
 

seasalt101

Active Member
well i am tending to agree with you on this problem is candidates beat the same ol horse daily, and tend to ignore the real issues i think the moderators at there debates ask redundant questions and when it is an open forum press issues also dance the same lines, ie: social security, healthcare, war in iraq, abortion, etc. and the candidates all seem like they are drones from the same school of thought i don't know i have yet to see a presidential winner get done anything they promise...tobin
 

ice4ice

Active Member
Make only take on Gay Marriages and Abortion:
Gay Marriages ? Different strokes for different folks ... yes
Abortion : I'm Pro-Choice ... it's a woman's choice what she wants to do.
NUFF SAID !!!
 

team2jndd

Active Member
Originally Posted by bigarn
I'll just say "I agree with you 100% Darth"
haha. Im so sick of these threads.
 

jennythebugg

Active Member
if someone wants a same --- marriage i don't see how on earth it will harm other people....abortion i beleive should be legal, yes but only in cases of molestation ---- or if it is endangering the life of the mother jmo
oh and no i don't think it should be a political issue because it is an issue of morality
 

bigarn

Active Member
Originally Posted by team2jndd
haha. Im so sick of these threads.

what's the matter ... you don't like my reply?
 

aedeos

Member
As someone who plans on running for high office someday, I've given a lot of thought to the so-called "social issues" that parties seem to rely on for their platforms. There's many reasons for this, and I'll try breaking a few down to help clear up why such contentious topics are so readily discussed in politics.
First, their contention in its self: A topic such as abortion or capital punishment often has a very easy line to separate sides. People are very easy to paint as either pro or con on these issues, which makes it easy for a party to take a side. If we look at abortion for instance, you'll notice that parties have been taking sides for years on the issue, though once elected, nothing gets done rarely. Even Roe v Wade had little to do with the current government in power, and far more to do with the Supreme Court calling the case up and laying down a monumental decision. If you look at gay marriage and our current presidency, you'll see that Bush has often used a constitutional amendment as a strong basis for his stump speeches, but once in office he's done very little. The amendment makes a great running ticket, but it's somewhat illusory to assume that'd pass the state votes needed and get by the supreme court's decision as well. With a two party system, it makes it easy for a party to grab one side of a contentious issue to oppose the other, which brings me to my second point.
The two party system: Our current political system claims to be open to anyone who wishes to run, but I think most will agree that that's illusory at best. Just looking at number of democrats and republicans compared to independents and third parties in the national positions shows that this is a very two-party centric country. First past the post (50%+1 vote) means that vague, over-simplified voting issues are the easiest to get elected on. When there's more options to vote for, more viewpoints can be put forth and these topics suddenly become more than pro-choice/pro-life. Multiple party systems open up dialog.
Third, public apathy: It's no secret that America doesn't vote. We have lower turnout than most first-world countries. I doubt I'm taking a gamble when I say few if anyone on this board have read their local statutes or a tax law (trust me, there's a reason; they're lame). When it comes to abortion, it's very black and white. Same with gay marriage. But military spending? Public financing? If you listened to a Presidential candidate stand up and ramble on about percentage spending on education or the latest budget summary for the military, I doubt you'd be deeply interested. These make great vague talking points for state of the union addresses, but overall have little merit unless we get into the nitty-gritty. Most of America doesn't seem to want to hear that.
The bottom line is: America wants these issues. As much as we hate them individually, we love them as a collective. It makes election choices easy. When a candidate aligns with our basic beliefs, it makes it easier to assume that they'll also align with our more technical beliefs. Either that, or people will honestly only vote on those issues and not go to the polls if their isn't a candidate who aligns their way (this will be interesting for '08 if the Rep. nominate a pro-choice candidate like McCain or Guilliani).
Hope that helps. Any questions or disagreeables, direct them this way and I'll be happy to talk.
 

windmill

Member
It's so tempting to type one little sentence and get this thread locked.....
You get too much a kick out of this controversial stuff Tang. Berating other's opinions and perspectives because they're not as informed or ethically bound as you gets old. You seem to actually enjoy argueing with anyone who disagrees with your post topic.
I look forward to seeing this thread killed.
 

team2jndd

Active Member
Originally Posted by bigarn
what's the matter ... you don't like my reply?
lol no your reply was fine. I agree with you that you cant argue because it is a waste of time. I am just saying that I am sick of these threads because they serve no purpose. I think it is sad that some people come here to talk politics. Make some friends
 
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