Help to make a sump without drilling my tank

[flower]

I assume post #59 was set up by a master plumber. The word sump and complicated are synonyms. I feel a need to go kiss my simple canister filters, they have been good to me, how can I even think of trusting my tank to anything else.
To have to go through those kinds of hoops just to stop some bubbles is insane. I think I am going to just try another skimmer. I have had skimmers not skim, like the Red Sea brand, and the CPR back Pac but the Coralife brand takes the prize for garbage, and to think I paid $250.00 for all this aggravation.

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3280190
ok cool, whats the advantage here? because all of the overflow water gets processed? Where as just dumping it into the skimmer chamber and letting the skimmer pump pick it up you are only getting what the skimmer gets? Or is it a space saving thing for flowers application?
No, not all the skimmer water will be processed in any setup.....A big misconception on alot of peoples part,, but by recircing the skimmer you increase the contact(dwell time) the water stays in the skimmer, so you will/can possible increase the efficiency of what the skimmer does skim.......Not really any space savings, because the pump would still be in the sump next to the skimmer. I was just trying to state, she couldn't eliminate the skimmer pump.

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3280198

I assume post #59 was set up by a master plumber. The word sump and complicated are synonyms. I feel a need to go kiss my simple canister filters, they have been good to me, how can I even think of trusting my tank to anything else.
To have to go through those kinds of hoops just to stop some bubbles is insane. I think I am going to just try another skimmer. I have had skimmers not skim, like the Red Sea brand, and the CPR back Pac but the Coralife brand takes the prize for garbage, and to think I paid $250.00 for all this aggravation.
Far from a Master Plumber

.....Those lines run to my sump, skimmer and chiller which were run away from the main setup, only because I'm tired of working under a stand.....I had major back surgery and needed to be able to stand or sit and do my maintenance, but with the proper thinking, planning and layout and "valves" you can do anything....Take each step or piece 1 at a time. Flower a sump/fuge will always outbenefit, a canister setup IMO, but you have to use what your comfortable with, but you also have to remember CHANGE.....you can't be afraid to try alittle different approach. Alot of this does seem super complicated, but really isn't......Nothing better the cutting PVC and PVC glue

 

[jstdv8]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3280231
No, not all the skimmer water will be processed in any setup.....A big misconception on alot of peoples part,, but by recircing the skimmer you increase the contact(dwell time) the water stays in the skimmer, so you will/can possible increase the efficiency of what the skimmer does skim.......Not really any space savings, because the pump would still be in the sump next to the skimmer. I was just trying to state, she couldn't eliminate the skimmer pump.
Ahh, I don't know how i got mixed up, I thoguht you said something about actually getting rid of the pump. maybe that was me Good stuff.
I know if it were me I'd either do the 10g and 10g thing, which wouldnt be very hard to do. Or I'd prop p some supports near the doors of teh cabinet,cut out that support post in between the doors put my sump in there as big as I could fit and then reapply the center post. Or i'd take a side wall off of the stand and put the tank in from the end and put the wall back on. But I'm good with wood. Much better than plastic hahaha

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3280234
Far from a Master Plumber

.....Those lines run to my sump, skimmer and chiller which were run away from the main setup, only because I'm tired of working under a stand.....I had major back surgery and needed to be able to stand or sit and do my maintenance, but with the proper thinking, planning and layout and "valves" you can do anything....Take each step or piece 1 at a time. Flower a sump/fuge will always outbenefit, a canister setup IMO, but you have to use what your comfortable with, but you also have to remember CHANGE.....you can't be afraid to try alittle different approach. Alot of this does seem super complicated, but really isn't......Nothing better the cutting PVC and PVC glue

LOL..the words valve..PVC and cutting , then PVC glue..all in the same sentence with EASY. Lines that run to sump, skimmer and chiller…You are a master plumber sore back and all.
I’m sure to Michel Angelo, painting the human form was easy. I have arthritis and turning a screw driver is a challenge for me. The cutting tools in my house is a pair of scissors and a utility knife. Power tools do not exist here, they are the enemy. That is why I asked if I could make a sump without drilling. I want to use soft tubes I can cut with a pair of scissors or the utility knife.
I can buy a pump and attach it. I can have home depot cut Plexiglas and if you tell where to apply it..I can glue silicone to make a sump tank. However even a 20g tank under my stand design proves impossible.
I can make on for the side of my tank, but it is ugly and the whole point of a saltwater tank is the beauty. I can still do it, I just need to find a way to get around the ugly my mom and me would be happy with..
So I entertained the idea of running a tube from the skimmer output that is causing all my bubble grief to a tank on the side (refugium) so I need to get the water from my skimmer to this refugium and back again to the DT without a flood. I can go up to the tank size of a 30g long, but that tangle of PVC pipe won’t work for me.

 

[acrylic51]

Yours doesn't have to be that elaborate as mine.....Keep it simple and still can be quite effective.....Go to HD or Lowes and buy some PVC and play with cutting and gluing and get comfortable.....This hobby will push your talents all the way around.....Patience!!!!!

 

[flower]

I found this information but I want to modify it:
Instructions.Things You'll Need:
•Secondary tank
•Power drill
•Plastic hose (3 pieces)
•Sealant
•Secondary pump
1.Step 1
Organize your setup. You will need some sort of secondary tank to your main tank, with room for both tanks to sit evenly and plastic hosing to run between the tanks without stretching or kinking.
2.Step 2 } They want me to drill so I don't want to do this step on my DT
Empty both tanks before you start to ensure that you're working in a dry, safe environment. This is a good opportunity to empty and clean your existing canister filter. Do not eliminate any of the biological media from your filter system, as it's an important part of the filtration process. This is also an ideal time to replace any filters or damaged parts on the system, and to give it a thorough rinse. Set both the main tank and refugium in their desired locations now, while they're empty.
3.Step 3 } want to eliminate this step..but rig the hoses a different way to be used
Use the power drill to drill two holes in the side or back of the larger aquarium, as close to the top as possible. These holes will house the plastic tubes, which will be responsible for circulating water between the main tank and refugium. The holes should be slightly larger in diameter than your plastic hose, which is available at all pet and aquarium supply shops.
4.Step 4
Insert the ends of two of the pieces of hose into the holes in the main aquarium. Make sure that the hoses can reach from the holes to the bottom of the refugium without kinking or pulling out. Once you've confirmed that the hoses are long enough, use the sealant around the holes in the main tank to seal the tubes in and prevent leaks.
5.Step 5 THIS IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO DO without drilling....
Transfer your canister filter system closer to the refugium, where it will now sit. Set your new pump up in the refugium, per manufacturer directions. Since your canister system sits outside the tanks, this second pump is necessary for pumping water from the refugium back into the main tank. Attach one of the hoses from the main tank to the sucking function of the canister system. Attach the third (free) piece of plastic tubing to the pumping function of the canister system, and secure it to the inside of the refugium. Finally, attach the second hose from the main tank to the pumping function of the secondary pump inside the refugium. This system will now pull water from the main tank, pass it through the canister filtration system, pump it into the refugium, and then pump it back into the main tank.
6.Step 6
Fill the main tank with water, fill the refugium halfway, and turn the pump and filter on. Monitor the setup for at least an hour to watch for leaks and/or flooding. Be aware that interruptions in power or turning the filter on and off could cause disruptions in your water circulation.
Read more: How to Set Up a Refugium on an Existing Canister Filter System | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6082075_set-...#ixzz0rQ6v4Rq9
Will the overflow box used for a sump work on this system for the return water from the refugium to the main tank? Then can I put my simmer in a seperate chamber in the refugium the way I would a sump with baffles? I can have the refugium lower than the main tank sitting beside it.

 

[acrylic51]

No the overflow box will not transfer water back to the DT. It won't because I'm assuming your talking about placing the fuge below the DT. It would work however if the fuge was mounted higher than the DT.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3280280
No the overflow box will not transfer water back to the DT. It won't because I'm assuming your talking about placing the fuge below the DT. It would work however if the fuge was mounted higher than the DT.

I don't understand, the DT is higher than a sump under the cabinet

I was thinking of mounting the overflow on the DT just like for a sump..
5.Step 5
Transfer your canister filter system closer to the refugium, where it will now sit. Set your new pump up in the refugium, per manufacturer directions. Since your canister system sits outside the tanks, this second pump is necessary for pumping water from the refugium back into the main tank. Attach one of the hoses from the main tank to the sucking function of the canister system. Attach the third (free) piece of plastic tubing to the pumping function of the canister system, and secure it to the inside of the refugium. Finally, attach the second hose from the main tank to the pumping function of the secondary pump inside the refugium. This system will now pull water from the main tank, pass it through the canister filtration system, pump it into the refugium, and then pump it back into the main tank.

 

[acrylic51]

Ok....maybe I'm getting lost in all this hose stuff

Your telling me the fuge/sump will be underneath the DT? You had asked if the overflow system would work as far as returning water to the DT?
Or are you meaning use the overflow to carry water to the new fuge/sump and then use the canister filter to pull water from the sump/fuge back to the display tank?

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3280321
Ok....maybe I'm getting lost in all this hose stuff

Your telling me the fuge/sump will be underneath the DT? You had asked if the overflow system would work as far as returning water to the DT?

LOL..It isn't your fault..I confuse allot of people. I wanted the fuge under, but now I have to put it to the side of the tank for space reasons. The smaller tank will still sit lower than the DT. I have two canister filters, one I can play with and rig to go to the refugium like the article says, to pump water back to the DT I was asking about the overflow thingy.
Does that make any better sense? I want my useless skimmer with its micro bubbles to be in a separate chamber created in the refugium with baffles. Is it even doable?

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3280322

LOL..It isn't your fault..I confuse allot of people. I wanted the fuge under, but now I have to put it to the side of the tank for space reasons. The smaller tank will still sit lower than the DT. I have two canister filters, one I can play with and rig to go to the refugium like the article says, to pump water back to the DT I was asking about the overflow thingy.
Does that make any better sense? I want my useless skimmer with its micro bubbles to be in a separate chamber created in the refugium with baffles. Is it even doable?
No the overflow will not pump water back to the DT(display tank) unless it is higher than the display tank. The overflow works off of a gravity principle, so therefore can't flow uphill.
Yes you could put your skimmer in the smaller tank to get it away from the DT because of microbubbles, but you want to give the microbubbles a chance to disperse before they are sucked up and carried back to the DT(display tank) or you'll reintroduce microbubbles to the DT again......

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3280324
No the overflow will not pump water back to the DT(display tank) unless it is higher than the display tank. The overflow works off of a gravity principle, so therefore can't flow uphill.
Yes you could put your skimmer in the smaller tank to get it away from the DT because of microbubbles, but you want to give the microbubbles a chance to disperse before they are sucked up and carried back to the DT(display tank) or you'll reintroduce microbubbles to the DT again......

Thanks so much for sticking with me..your a sweetie.
Okay…forget the canister idea…back to a refugium with a sump design..a U tube overflow box in the display with one tube siphoning water from the display tank and the other going to the refugium attached to a small pump. Baffles set up for the skimmer on one side as Jstdv8 designed so micro bubbles won’t be going back to my DT.
Because there are no filters, bio balls or what not..ugly is no longer a concern. How much like a regular saltwater tank can I make it look? How much sand, how much rock and what kind of macro algae? I believe I can use regular fish lights, is that correct? This is going to be right out in the open so I want it to look good.

 

[acrylic51]

Flower your good, and love your waving hand by the way.....Have you ever checked out melevsreef dot com. A very good informative site, that will really explain a lot of information, and how things work. His site really breaks things down. Not knocking anything you and Jstdv8 have discussed....I will have to go back and reread what you guys have discussed, but maybe what you and Jstdv8 have been talking about, maybe seeing an illustration, might help ease or simplify things in your mind. Kind of put you at ease.
The overflow box will hang on the DT, and it will have a small skimming box that will actually be inside the DT, and the bigger outer box of the overflow will be outside the DT. There will either be 1 or 2 U tubes depending how big the overflow is, and the bottom of the outside of the overflow box, should have a bulkhead in place, where you would attach either a flex drain line or you could hard plumb it with the NASTY word PVC

The water from the tank would then be carried to the sump/fuge where you could/would place your skimmer. I am suggesting to put your skimmer in the area where the water is coming into....That way whatever microbubbles the skimmer is putting out would have a chance to run through the fuge, since the flow is slow, that way it doesn't have a chance to make it back to the display tank.
I won't and can't comment on the last part.....I do run a fuge on my 240, but nothing special but Chaeto, and I use mechanical filtration in the means of filter socks to catch large particulates, and stop any bubbles that might be carried from the overflow from the DT.....I light with a simple clip on light for my fuge as well. To bad you live so far.....you'd love to work in my garage and you'd go crazy with stuff to do.....

 

[jstdv8]

I just thought of a new plan.... Can she use the two 10g tanks side by side like I posted before, but instead of drilling a spot between the two what if she just put the skimmer in the left tank and the outlet to the skimmer dumping into the right tank.
Then divide the right tank into two sections, one for the fuge and one for the return pump. Problem solved? or will there be a problem with rerouting the outlet to the skimmer in a direction other than down?
This would be rediculously easy if the changing of the outlet tube doesnt affect how the skimmer works in some way.
Thoughts?

 

[jstdv8]

I wish I had my video camera here Flower, I'd shoot a short clip of the overflow workinga nd then simulate a power outage so you can see how it goes.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3280363
I just thought of a new plan.... Can she use the two 10g tanks side by side like I posted before, but instead of drilling a spot between the two what if she just put the skimmer in the left tank and the outlet to the skimmer dumping into the right tank.
Then divide the right tank into two sections, one for the fuge and one for the return pump. Problem solved? or will there be a problem with rerouting the outlet to the skimmer in a direction other than down?
This would be rediculously easy if the changing of the outlet tube doesnt affect how the skimmer works in some way.
Thoughts?

Thanks for all the help guys..
You had my full attention until the last part ,and then I got confused. The only problem is that I would no longer have a spot for my ATO tank. I like the idea of a refugium on the side of the tank with the skimmer in it, a 30g long would work great....My canisters work fine for filtration, so a refugium sounds like just the ticket.
Would I need any kind of a CUC for a refugium? I want it to look nice but be functional at the same time.

 

[meowzer]

I keep some snails in my refugium....I also have a pencil urchin in there too (he was bad).....
I would stilll want to divide the skimmer from the fuge, you should be able to do that with a short divider though....

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3280365
I wish I had my video camera here Flower, I'd shoot a short clip of the overflow workinga nd then simulate a power outage so you can see how it goes.
That would be sweet Jstdv8......

 

[acrylic51]

I don't think rerouting the direction of the skimmer output would be to crazy unless your talking something drastic.....shouldn't put tons of back pressure on it....