Help with a rebuild!

novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
Rae, I would remove that fish and place it in QT as soon as possible. My gut feeling would be to treat with a broad-spectrum antibiotic like Furan-II, which is effective against gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria. These look like open sores with some kind of bacterial infection going on, and a shotgun antibiotic may be a little hardcore, but probably worth it for this case.
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
you do have a QT set up correct?
Go get the Furan-II and read the instructions. First you have to fish out the patient to be treated, acclimate to the QT then add the medication. Typically it take 7-10 days to treat.
The broad spectrum antibiotic will not harm the fish but will clear up the infection and inhibit any secondary infection.
For what its worth to, do not add rock or anything. Just a few coffee mugs or cleaned big PVC for a hiding place for the fish.
 
rlablan

rlablan

Active Member
Okay- You guys are helpful. I am going to vent now.
I typed up a whole thread with ALL THE INFO (because it's common for people to post some stupid pic and say "what's wrong"), all the tank specs, all the stock, temps, equipment everything.... and then people get on there (After I said "It's not ich) and went "I think it's ich. I think it's a parasite...."
Seriously? That looks like ich to someone? I realize that I am not the most seasoned hobbiest, I tend to play it safe and do kind of lame reefs but jebus... I know this is not ich. I know this is not a parasite... I said that I had been doing courses of metro... FOR PARASITES!! I took all this time to type out a thread and and it's like no one read it...
It's ich
It's aggression
It's a parasite...
Seriously?
I actually watch my tank, If it was aggression, I would know.... ugh... *frustrated.*

Okay... Anyway... I should not be that way, people are just trying to help.
It's my own fault for asking.
 
rlablan

rlablan

Active Member
So here is the thing
I do not have a QT or a HT set up. The 60 was supposed to be that... you know because the 150 was supposed to be set up and then the all the 60 critters were gonna move over?
I was gonna make the 60 my QT for the 150 until the 150 was filled and then set something up in the 60...
Then the 150 decided to "re" cycle it self. And so now was wait.
So- the plan. I was thinking that I would treat the tang in the sump of the 60. Just cut the return pump for a couple of day. The sump is just a big, open 25 gallon tank, no baffles. I will remove the skimmer and the filter sock. And leave in the heater and add a K-nano.
Do my little water changes daily on the sump tank, and then when/if he gets better, I will change all the water in the sump and place the tang in a real tank.
Whatdaya think?
About the meds... I went to the LFS lastnight and I got erythromycin. They did not have furan anything. I can try *****... maybe they will have something. Should I use the erythromycin or no? It seemed to be the best thing. It covers open wounds, red sores, mouth fungus and also internal bacterial infection. Seemed like a thing?
I am currently testing the 150 AGAIN... hopefully no ammo today...
 
rlablan

rlablan

Active Member
Ugh still ammonia in the tank. The levels have not changed at all. I think I am going to do a water change and see what that does.
 
novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
If ***** doesn't carry FURAN-II, then you should use what you have and start soon as possible. Don't wait for something to be shipped. HOWEVER.....you ought to order some FURAN-II from an online source if you can't find it locally. Don't know if SWF sells it, but of course the giant online "A" site carries it, and usually can find it with free prime shipping.
I still feel like you should keep a completely separated QT tank. Medicine CAN seep into the silicone of the seals of a glass tank, and bacteria....well, you read about my adventures with my killer-QT tank, right? Bacteria can live on for a LOOOOONG time, and potentially threaten the 60g when you re-plumb it. But if it's a question of money or timing, then I agree that the unplumbed and separated sump is the best option for you. Just make sure you drain that bad boy completely when the fish gets better.
Start the erythromycin. Order some furan. If the fish isn't looking better in a few days, consider swapping meds. You'll need to do a big WC between meds. And my fingers are officially crossed for you.
 
rlablan

rlablan

Active Member
hahaha I was not talking about you, sir. :p
I looked around town for furan but it is no where to be found. I suppose I will start with the other stuff and see what happens.
No, I remember the killer QT name but I did not know what actually happened with that. Care to give me the cliff notes?
I will keep all of that in mind and I will watch things... I suppose if it is going to get in the tank, he is already in the 60... so It would already be in there?
I don't have space for a QT and I also don't have the time to maintain that. I am not even sure if I will be keeping the 60 up after I don't need it anymore. I am not sure if I can spread myself between two tanks and be able to maintain them at proper levels.
I know for certain that I can't handle 3.
Hopefully I will be able to get him in the sump soon. With that scaping on the 60, it will be incredibly difficult.
 
rlablan

rlablan

Active Member
REJOICE!
The tang is looking a million times better!!!
It was, clearly, bacterial.
I have been using small amounts of erythromycin as a food soak and it has been working beautifully! I will try to snap a cell phone pic or two of the wound around the mouth. It looks A LOT better.
Ugh I am so relieved. We are not out of the woods yet but it's still a good sign.
Also, It has not seemed to have any negative effect on the tank at all. The long term effects are still to be seen but I did research quite a bit about erythro and the use of it in the reef tank. It seems that a few universities have been conducting long term experiments and observations about the use of erythro in a MATURE reef tank (one year and older).
I like to think that my tank has a pretty diversified bacteria portfolio so... I went for it... It appears that I was right.
According to the study, a mature tank can take the small doses of erythro because it is a general antibiotic, thought not harmful to the entire spectrum of bacterial, both harmful and beneficial.
You will lose a small amount of the beneficial stuff in the tank/sand/rock but levels still measure quite high in mature tanks through out long term dosing in both the water column and when used as a food soak.
I am really glad that I went for it... Everything seems to be doing quite well including all of my corals, the large clam, all of the inverts both ornamental and otherwise.
I am just really really pleased. I hope that things continue to look up and I do not experience some sudden downfall.
Fingers crossed please!
Thank you for all of the feedback and being my ever present soundboard. To the person who originally claimed that it appeared to be bacterial, THANK YOU! I bestow upon you an internet cookie. It's chocolate chip.
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
THAT IS GREAT!
What clam do you have love to see a shot of it, I've been looking at the Blue Squamosa, they are beautiful but pricey.
 
rlablan

rlablan

Active Member
Ahahahah Nova... terrible...
Limpid- I have a very large squamosa. As far as clams go, they are generally the more plain guys but this clam is pretty decent looking. I mainly bought it because it was 60 bucks and it's sheer size is kind of the wow favor of it. I have some shots around... lemme post some for you.
Once we get the 150 up and running, I am sure that we will invest in a maxima. The BF really likes em and that is why I decided on MH instead of LEDs (well, one reason).
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlablan http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/320#post_3514478
Ahahahah Nova... terrible...
Limpid- I have a very large squamosa. As far as clams go, they are generally the more plain guys but this clam is pretty decent looking. I mainly bought it because it was 60 bucks and it's sheer size is kind of the wow favor of it. I have some shots around... lemme post some for you.
Once we get the 150 up and running, I am sure that we will invest in a maxima. The BF really likes em and that is why I decided on MH instead of LEDs (well, one reason).
That was my next question, himm MH? I was reding that they didn't require strong light. I have currently 1watt LED's
 
novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
OK, back to grown-up world. Rae, do you ever see anything picking on your clam? I'm very tempted to get one (I think my lighting should be able to handle it....2 120-watt LED units with 3w bulbs) but I'm concerned about my Potter's Angel. Most dwarf angels are known to be clam-pickers....something about the slime coat on the mantle that attracts the fish. I'm worried that I'll just be buying a 60-90 dollar snack.
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahobbies http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/320#post_3514484
OK, back to grown-up world. Rae, do you ever see anything picking on your clam? I'm very tempted to get one (I think my lighting should be able to handle it....2 120-watt LED units with 3w bulbs) but I'm concerned about my Potter's Angel. Most dwarf angels are known to be clam-pickers....something about the slime coat on the mantle that attracts the fish. I'm worried that I'll just be buying a 60-90 dollar snack.
I wouldn't chance it unless you had another tank to put it in or could take it back to the store. Odds are good the potter would pick at your clam. I'm working to hard can't come up with anything funny to say.
 
rlablan

rlablan

Active Member
None of my guys pick on anything. Not coral, not the clam... never see any nips on anything.
I will say this.
I have learned to only buy LARGE clams for a few reasons.
The smaller ones are dependent on both micro foods AND light. They are more choosey as to the micro foods that they will accept and thrive off of. The larger clams are pretty much photosynthetic and I am told that they are less choosey as to the food that they want/need to live healthy.
This has been my experience, as I have purchased a few of the smaller clams over the years (around 2inches) and they did not live well for me, no matter what I fed. I had MH lighting for those clams too.
Secondly, I have been told that the larger clams can withstand "normal" nips to the mantle. They can regenerate very quickly and will be totally fine. The smaller clams are easily upset and once they are nipped at, they can sometimes become "shy" for long periods and will not heal quickly because they won't open up to accept food or enough light.
This big clam has been really hardy for me. He moves well and opens up really nicely, fish swimming over or my hand's shadow does not phase him and make him "shut" as much as a smaller clam.
My mother bought the "brother" to my clam. Same size, same type, from the same shop. She kept a regal angel and a coral beauty with hers. Never had an issues. She has a rock beauty with it now and still no issues.
I would say that if you were going to do it, get a cheaper clam, like a squamy... and get a large one. If it gets nipped, it should heal as long as it is healthy. I don't think it would be worth it to get a smaller one. Try to find a 4inch + guy. It will have a better change of surviving. I think it's better to spend more, for this reason. This is what I would do, but that is just me...
Also, for what it is worth, I don't feed ANYTHING with clam in it. I don't want them getting a taste for it. I make my own food and put nothing clam in anything. Just a thought for you...
Now I am gonna upload a LOT of pictures.
 
rlablan

rlablan

Active Member
Limpid- In regard to the lighting, I would not trust such an investment to LED. This is just me... You will have to read back to my issues with the LEDs... Long story short, it will be years before I trust any LEDs to run on my reef tank EVER.
I am not even sure if I would run a FOWLR with them. Too much film/nuisance algae for me.
From what I understand, clams are mainly photosynthetic when they reach a certain size... I have heard variance as to what size but I would assume anything over 3-4inches? I think that LEDS are strong enough, if you have big enough LEDs... Put it this way:
I would not have a clam under anything less than 100 watt MH lights or the equivalent - - unless you had a shallow, lagoon style tanks. Something around 14-12 inches deep? If it's anything deeper, like a standard depth tank, you will need strong light to penetrate the water and get the right PAR down to the sandbed, which is where the clam resides.
This is all just my opinion though. I have never had good luck keeping anything under LED and I have had good luck with coral under T5HO but not clams.
MH is the only thing that has worked for me.
 
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