"Holiday" Tree
- Thread starter reefbabe
- Start date
cowfishrule
Active Member
Originally Posted by Dogstar
As a Christain, I have a Christmas tree, As an Americian, I dont think the Gov. should put up a tree if they are going to officaily call it a Christmas tree unless they put up symbols of other religions and give them equal respect symbolizeing their holidays, during the time of those holidays.. Haveing just a " Christmas " tree only respects the " one " established religon and that goes against Artical One of the Bill Of Rights.
i think the gov should have a christmas tree.
unless your deeply religous, the majority of the nation has no clue what the tree actually stands for. its a symbol of the christmas season. the jewish couple above me puts a christmas tree up.
not having the tree up during the season is like eliminating santa from christmas.
santa is a symbol. by the time you can figure out his religious ties, you are too old to believe in him.
if the white house also wants to put up a menorah, thats perfectly fine by me. putting up a menorah in no way shape or form forces hebrewism on me.
this country is so focused on "not offending anybody" that we are losing our own heritage.
its about time that we, the citizens, take back our country.
"this is our house... you dont like it, get the f**k out"
As a Christain, I have a Christmas tree, As an Americian, I dont think the Gov. should put up a tree if they are going to officaily call it a Christmas tree unless they put up symbols of other religions and give them equal respect symbolizeing their holidays, during the time of those holidays.. Haveing just a " Christmas " tree only respects the " one " established religon and that goes against Artical One of the Bill Of Rights.
i think the gov should have a christmas tree.
unless your deeply religous, the majority of the nation has no clue what the tree actually stands for. its a symbol of the christmas season. the jewish couple above me puts a christmas tree up.
not having the tree up during the season is like eliminating santa from christmas.
santa is a symbol. by the time you can figure out his religious ties, you are too old to believe in him.
if the white house also wants to put up a menorah, thats perfectly fine by me. putting up a menorah in no way shape or form forces hebrewism on me.
this country is so focused on "not offending anybody" that we are losing our own heritage.
its about time that we, the citizens, take back our country.
"this is our house... you dont like it, get the f**k out"
judyk
Member
I think this whole "Holiday Tree" thing is being blown out of porportion. The stores weren't trying to be offensive. Just the opposite. This country is made up from so many nationalities and religions. What's wrong with saying "Happy Holiday's." You're wishing well to everyone's celebrations and if you buy a tree, call it anything you want.
Originally Posted by Jmick
When I think of Christmas I don’t think of it as a Christian holiday or a time to worhip god/jesus. Instead, I think the only thing really being worshiped is the almighty dollar by our friends at Wal-Mart, Target, etc. Why don’t we call it the Money Tree?
LOL The religion that no one will argue with.
When I think of Christmas I don’t think of it as a Christian holiday or a time to worhip god/jesus. Instead, I think the only thing really being worshiped is the almighty dollar by our friends at Wal-Mart, Target, etc. Why don’t we call it the Money Tree?
LOL The religion that no one will argue with.
J
jdragunas
Guest
Originally Posted by JudyK
I think this whole "Holiday Tree" thing is being blown out of porportion. The stores weren't trying to be offensive. Just the opposite. This country is made up from so many nationalities and religions. What's wrong with saying "Happy Holiday's." You're wishing well to everyone's celebrations and if you buy a tree, call it anything you want.
i have no problem with stores saying "happy holidays", actually i think that's right. You can't judge what religion people are, and if i were jewish, i would get tired of hearing "merry christmas"... but it's not right to take a christian symbol and turn it into something else... it's like taking a cross and calling it a sideways X... it's just not right!!! It's quite simple: if they want a "holiday symbol", they need to come up with something new instead of trying to pick apart the christian religion...
and when you see a christmas tree, how many people actually think "oh yeah, Jesus died for my sins" I'll bet not a lot of people. To most people out there, especially kids, it's a symbol of that time of year when you get presents from a fat guy in a red suit. there's absolutely no harm in calling it a christmas tree, because that's what it is!!! I don't get mad when jews call the menorah a jewish symbol, because that's what it is!!!
I think this whole "Holiday Tree" thing is being blown out of porportion. The stores weren't trying to be offensive. Just the opposite. This country is made up from so many nationalities and religions. What's wrong with saying "Happy Holiday's." You're wishing well to everyone's celebrations and if you buy a tree, call it anything you want.
i have no problem with stores saying "happy holidays", actually i think that's right. You can't judge what religion people are, and if i were jewish, i would get tired of hearing "merry christmas"... but it's not right to take a christian symbol and turn it into something else... it's like taking a cross and calling it a sideways X... it's just not right!!! It's quite simple: if they want a "holiday symbol", they need to come up with something new instead of trying to pick apart the christian religion...
and when you see a christmas tree, how many people actually think "oh yeah, Jesus died for my sins" I'll bet not a lot of people. To most people out there, especially kids, it's a symbol of that time of year when you get presents from a fat guy in a red suit. there's absolutely no harm in calling it a christmas tree, because that's what it is!!! I don't get mad when jews call the menorah a jewish symbol, because that's what it is!!!
scubadoo
Active Member
it is my understanding the Capital Christmas tree was renamed the holiday tree under the Clintom administration. The individual(s) repsonsible have yet to come forward or be identified. I am amazed that such a thing can happen in Washington yet no one knows who ordered and/or directed this change several years ago.
dogstar
Active Member
I have followed that thread,
If the concept you refer to is that of individual rights....and your post in the other thread that you say blows this out of the water as.."And we are a democracy. A democracy does not mean that individual rights takes precedence. It means that the majority rules. " This in a way I will sort of agree with, but, This democracy, the majority, has ruled on this. It has made the rule...the Law...
Artical 14.,
All persons...... nor deny to ANY person within its juridition the equal protection of the LAW.
The wording of seperation of church and state is not in the law, IMO this same spirit of this is the reason for the law. The ppl. demanded this befor they would ratify the Constitution. And they had their reasons.
" interpreted " I quess thats the issue. What did they mean ? Everyone has their right to interprate it as they wish. Even I, I hope.
" heritage " IMO, the law is our heritage that allows the majority to be Christians as its always been as well as the minority that allows them to be something else if thats what they choose.
"this is our house... you dont like it, get the f**k out" ...Sorry you feel that way but you have that right. Its also my house and you are welcomed to stay. Please keep this respectfull.
I agree that the holiday tree thing is blow out of porportion, but reefbabe started the thread, as someone put it " whineing " about their/his/her thoughts.
Ive not said that ppl. should not be alowed to worship as they wish. I would die to protect that right for all.
Christmas does mean different things to different ppl. I agree. Some are not even aware of the theological history of it and for them they dont see any big deal as some do. The tree as I have said is a tree. Its up to the ppl. to decide if it a Christmas tree, IMO, not the government.
If the concept you refer to is that of individual rights....and your post in the other thread that you say blows this out of the water as.."And we are a democracy. A democracy does not mean that individual rights takes precedence. It means that the majority rules. " This in a way I will sort of agree with, but, This democracy, the majority, has ruled on this. It has made the rule...the Law...
Artical 14.,
All persons...... nor deny to ANY person within its juridition the equal protection of the LAW.
The wording of seperation of church and state is not in the law, IMO this same spirit of this is the reason for the law. The ppl. demanded this befor they would ratify the Constitution. And they had their reasons.
" interpreted " I quess thats the issue. What did they mean ? Everyone has their right to interprate it as they wish. Even I, I hope.
" heritage " IMO, the law is our heritage that allows the majority to be Christians as its always been as well as the minority that allows them to be something else if thats what they choose.
"this is our house... you dont like it, get the f**k out" ...Sorry you feel that way but you have that right. Its also my house and you are welcomed to stay. Please keep this respectfull.
I agree that the holiday tree thing is blow out of porportion, but reefbabe started the thread, as someone put it " whineing " about their/his/her thoughts.
Ive not said that ppl. should not be alowed to worship as they wish. I would die to protect that right for all.
Christmas does mean different things to different ppl. I agree. Some are not even aware of the theological history of it and for them they dont see any big deal as some do. The tree as I have said is a tree. Its up to the ppl. to decide if it a Christmas tree, IMO, not the government.
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by Dogstar
Christmas does mean different things to different ppl. I agree. Some are not even aware of the theological history of it and for them they dont see any big deal as some do. The tree as I have said is a tree. Its up to the ppl. to decide if it a Christmas tree, IMO, not the government.
A tree decoarted this time of year with ornaments and and/or lights is called a Christmas Tree. You would be hard-pressed to find many of the whiners that would disagree with the definition of a Christmas tree.
What these whiners seek to do is not only prevent the government ffom calling something what it actually is., but redefine the definition of a Christmas tree.
let them create something and call it what they want. That pole thing with Festivus sounds like a good idea. THe whiners would enjoy the "airing of the grievances".
As far as I am concerned, these Scrooges have far too much time on their hands.
Folks in this country are free to practive whatever religion they want.
85% of the poulation in this country are of the Christian faith. The whiners will simply have to deal with it.
I have to deal with that one-eyed idiot ---- Vitale..and that big fat Monday Night moron John Madden.
Christmas does mean different things to different ppl. I agree. Some are not even aware of the theological history of it and for them they dont see any big deal as some do. The tree as I have said is a tree. Its up to the ppl. to decide if it a Christmas tree, IMO, not the government.
A tree decoarted this time of year with ornaments and and/or lights is called a Christmas Tree. You would be hard-pressed to find many of the whiners that would disagree with the definition of a Christmas tree.
What these whiners seek to do is not only prevent the government ffom calling something what it actually is., but redefine the definition of a Christmas tree.
let them create something and call it what they want. That pole thing with Festivus sounds like a good idea. THe whiners would enjoy the "airing of the grievances".
As far as I am concerned, these Scrooges have far too much time on their hands.
Folks in this country are free to practive whatever religion they want.
85% of the poulation in this country are of the Christian faith. The whiners will simply have to deal with it.
I have to deal with that one-eyed idiot ---- Vitale..and that big fat Monday Night moron John Madden.
And the History
"Germany is credited with starting the Christmas tree tradition as we now know it in the 16th century when devout Christians brought decorated trees into their homes. Some built Christmas pyramids of wood and decorated them with evergreens and candles if wood was scarce. It is a widely held belief that Martin Luther, the 16th-century Protestant reformer, first added lighted candles to a tree. Walking toward his home one winter evening, composing a sermon, he was awed by the brilliance of stars twinkling amid st evergreens. To recapture the scene for his family, he erected a tree in the main room and wired its branches with lighted candles.
Most 19th-century Americans found Christmas trees an oddity. The first record of one being on display was in the 1830s by the German settlers of Pennsylvania, although trees had been a tradition in many German homes much earlier. The Pennsylvania German settlements had community trees as early as 1747. But, as late as the 1840s Christmas trees were seen as pagan symbols and not accepted by most Americans.
It is not surprising that, like many other festive Christmas customs, the tree was adopted so late in America. To the New England Puritans, Christmas was sacred. The pilgrims's second governor, William Bradford, wrote that he tried hard to stamp out "pagan mockery" of the observance, penalizing any frivolity. The influential Oliver Cromwell preached against "the heathen traditions" of Christmas carols, decorated trees, and any joyful expression that desecrated "that sacred event." In 1659, the General Court of Massachusetts enacted a law making any observance of December 25 (other than a church service) a penal offense; people were fined for hanging decorations. That stern solemnity continued until the 19th century, when the influx of German and Irish immigrants undermined the Puritan legacy.
In 1846, the popular royals, Queen Victoria and her German Prince, Albert, were sketched in the Illustrated London News standing with their children around a Christmas tree. Unlike the previous royal family, Victoria was very popular with her subjects, and what was done at court immediately became fashionable—not only in Britain, but with fashion-conscious East Coast American Society. The Christmas tree had arrived.
By the 1890s Christmas ornaments were arriving from Germany and Christmas tree popularity was on the rise around the U.S. It was noted that Europeans used small trees about four feet in height, while Americans liked their Christmas trees to reach from floor to ceiling.
The early 20th century saw Americans decorating their trees mainly with homemade ornaments, while the German-American sect continued to use apples, nuts, and marzipan cookies. Popcorn joined in after being dyed bright colors and interlaced with berries and nuts. Electricity brought about Christmas lights, making it possible for Christmas trees to glow for days on end. With this, Christmas trees began to appear in town squares across the country and having a Christmas tree in the home became an American tradition. "
History Channel
"Germany is credited with starting the Christmas tree tradition as we now know it in the 16th century when devout Christians brought decorated trees into their homes. Some built Christmas pyramids of wood and decorated them with evergreens and candles if wood was scarce. It is a widely held belief that Martin Luther, the 16th-century Protestant reformer, first added lighted candles to a tree. Walking toward his home one winter evening, composing a sermon, he was awed by the brilliance of stars twinkling amid st evergreens. To recapture the scene for his family, he erected a tree in the main room and wired its branches with lighted candles.
Most 19th-century Americans found Christmas trees an oddity. The first record of one being on display was in the 1830s by the German settlers of Pennsylvania, although trees had been a tradition in many German homes much earlier. The Pennsylvania German settlements had community trees as early as 1747. But, as late as the 1840s Christmas trees were seen as pagan symbols and not accepted by most Americans.
It is not surprising that, like many other festive Christmas customs, the tree was adopted so late in America. To the New England Puritans, Christmas was sacred. The pilgrims's second governor, William Bradford, wrote that he tried hard to stamp out "pagan mockery" of the observance, penalizing any frivolity. The influential Oliver Cromwell preached against "the heathen traditions" of Christmas carols, decorated trees, and any joyful expression that desecrated "that sacred event." In 1659, the General Court of Massachusetts enacted a law making any observance of December 25 (other than a church service) a penal offense; people were fined for hanging decorations. That stern solemnity continued until the 19th century, when the influx of German and Irish immigrants undermined the Puritan legacy.
In 1846, the popular royals, Queen Victoria and her German Prince, Albert, were sketched in the Illustrated London News standing with their children around a Christmas tree. Unlike the previous royal family, Victoria was very popular with her subjects, and what was done at court immediately became fashionable—not only in Britain, but with fashion-conscious East Coast American Society. The Christmas tree had arrived.
By the 1890s Christmas ornaments were arriving from Germany and Christmas tree popularity was on the rise around the U.S. It was noted that Europeans used small trees about four feet in height, while Americans liked their Christmas trees to reach from floor to ceiling.
The early 20th century saw Americans decorating their trees mainly with homemade ornaments, while the German-American sect continued to use apples, nuts, and marzipan cookies. Popcorn joined in after being dyed bright colors and interlaced with berries and nuts. Electricity brought about Christmas lights, making it possible for Christmas trees to glow for days on end. With this, Christmas trees began to appear in town squares across the country and having a Christmas tree in the home became an American tradition. "
History Channel
scubadoo
Active Member
Monday, December 12, 2005
CLUB KRAMERICA Celebrates Festivus
CLUB KRAMERICA Celebrates Festivus
Daily Illini, IL
Nothing says "Happy Holidays" like a bare aluminum pole. None of that messy tinsel, shiny ornaments or lights. It's all about minimalism - no gifts, no songs and certainly no yuletide cheer.
Forget the carols and the cookies. Let me air my grievances and dig into a fruitcake so hard I might lose a tooth, or two. Give me that good ole' non-denominational fake holiday that originated from a television sitcom and somehow became part of the December holiday tradition. Give me a Festivus for the rest of us...
CLUB KRAMERICA Celebrates Festivus
CLUB KRAMERICA Celebrates Festivus
Daily Illini, IL
Nothing says "Happy Holidays" like a bare aluminum pole. None of that messy tinsel, shiny ornaments or lights. It's all about minimalism - no gifts, no songs and certainly no yuletide cheer.
Forget the carols and the cookies. Let me air my grievances and dig into a fruitcake so hard I might lose a tooth, or two. Give me that good ole' non-denominational fake holiday that originated from a television sitcom and somehow became part of the December holiday tradition. Give me a Festivus for the rest of us...
scubadoo
Active Member
Festivus - Non-denominational alternate Christmas-time holiday featured on episode No. 166 "The Strike" on the sitcom SEINFELD/NBC/1990-98. Festivus was created by Frank Costanza (Jerry Stiller) after getting into a fight in a toy store when he and another man both grabbed for the last doll in the place. Frustrated at the commercialization of Christmas, Frank created Festivus.
Celebrated on December 23rd, the pseudo-festival had a traditional undecorated eight-foot aluminum pole (no tinsel, or ornaments), a father-son wrestling match ("The Feats of Strength") and the ("The Airing of Grievances") when each member at the gathering sat around the dinner table and insultingly counted down the reasons why other family members were such a disappointment throughout that year. The main Festivus meal consisted of spaghetti (or what looked like meatloaf?) covered in a red sauce.
Celebrated on December 23rd, the pseudo-festival had a traditional undecorated eight-foot aluminum pole (no tinsel, or ornaments), a father-son wrestling match ("The Feats of Strength") and the ("The Airing of Grievances") when each member at the gathering sat around the dinner table and insultingly counted down the reasons why other family members were such a disappointment throughout that year. The main Festivus meal consisted of spaghetti (or what looked like meatloaf?) covered in a red sauce.
reefbabe
Member
Yes...I would like to "whine" about this because...quite frankly, I'm just sick and tired of Christ being taken out of everything. Freedom of religion means NOTHING when you are Christian....it might "offend" someone. These people are yet again, trying to manipulate MY religion. Who gave THEM the right......what other religion has been attacked other than Christianity. PC gone awry...it's getting old.
darth tang
Active Member
I stated this in the tax thread and I will state it here.
Santa puts presents under a Chritmas tree. If you have a "holiday" tree, I guess you are screwed. Maybe Bill Mahr will hook you up, but Santa won't be.
Santa puts presents under a Chritmas tree. If you have a "holiday" tree, I guess you are screwed. Maybe Bill Mahr will hook you up, but Santa won't be.
mimzy
Active Member
Scuba Doo, you're right...the people that want to re-name the tree are doodyheads. They don't get it.
A Christmas tree is a Christmas tree is a Christmas tree. I don't want to change the NAME of the thing, it's still a Christmas tree any way you cut it.
My issue is that there is a Christmas tree for the NATION...when a huge percentage of the nation isn't Christian.
Don't jump down my throat here - I'm not asking for a removal of the Christmas tree...but how about an addition of a Menora? Or a Kwanza Candleabra? Or the Festivus pole thingy?
I mean, if the whitehouse can afford that massive tree, all those decorations and a bloody HUGE gingerbread house replica of itself, ud think they'd be able to light a couple candleabras to represent the rest of us, eh?
And for the reccord, as I think I have stated before... I think it's rediculous that they are trying to restrict people from saying Merry Christmas. It's freaking Christmas! Wish people a happy one! Some people just don't get it. Unity isn't about exclusion and equalization - it's about INclusion and a celebration of differences!
So Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuka, Happy Kwanza and a Joyous Festivus...and have a very lovely Tuesday for that matter as well.
A Christmas tree is a Christmas tree is a Christmas tree. I don't want to change the NAME of the thing, it's still a Christmas tree any way you cut it.
My issue is that there is a Christmas tree for the NATION...when a huge percentage of the nation isn't Christian.
Don't jump down my throat here - I'm not asking for a removal of the Christmas tree...but how about an addition of a Menora? Or a Kwanza Candleabra? Or the Festivus pole thingy?
I mean, if the whitehouse can afford that massive tree, all those decorations and a bloody HUGE gingerbread house replica of itself, ud think they'd be able to light a couple candleabras to represent the rest of us, eh?
And for the reccord, as I think I have stated before... I think it's rediculous that they are trying to restrict people from saying Merry Christmas. It's freaking Christmas! Wish people a happy one! Some people just don't get it. Unity isn't about exclusion and equalization - it's about INclusion and a celebration of differences!
So Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuka, Happy Kwanza and a Joyous Festivus...and have a very lovely Tuesday for that matter as well.
J
jdragunas
Guest
ok, my dad actually had a very good point when i brought this up to him. Christmas is not necessarily a religious holiday, although a lot of people take it to be. Christmas is simply the celebration of the birth of a man way back in the day named Jesus Christ. That doesn't necessarily mean we're celebrating him as our savior, it just means we're giving him a birthday party. Jesus Christ existed, and whether or not you believe him to be your savior is irrelevant. Now, christmas doesn't even mean that! It means santa comes and give all the good kids presents... why do people get offended by that???
Here's the link to a website my gramma sent me that had a lot to do with this topic: http://www.afa.net/petitions/issuedetail.asp?id=170
Here's the link to a website my gramma sent me that had a lot to do with this topic: http://www.afa.net/petitions/issuedetail.asp?id=170
