Holy crap... just ordered a pair of moorish idols!!

crimzy

Active Member
I ordered the idols tonight, should be coming on Thursday. I know all about the how delicate they are but I am giving them a shot. I will be feeding them pellet food about 3 times per day and frozen food once per day. Any suggestions on foods? I know that they need sponge in their diet and, the only food I am aware of that uses sponge is Angel Formula, which I'll pick up. Any others?
BTW, thanks Kirk.
 

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2784064
Oh you'll get pics... don't worry about that.

That's a given, huh?
I haven't been keeping up on your build. I guess it's done since you ordered these two guys. Gonna go check it out.
 

aquaguy24

Active Member
Wow..all i have to say is u are very daring..please post pics..im interested to see if anyone can keep these guys.....Here is wat i can find on diet and over stuff...Sponges, tunicates and other benthic invertebrates constitute the bulk of the moorish idol's diet. Captive kept moorish idols typically are very picky eaters. They will either eat nothing (common) and perish or eat everything (very uncommon). Eating a variety of items is healthy. Even small portions of avocado and banana are sometimes fed in captivity.
Pennant coralfish, Heniochus acuminatus, in the Melbourne Aquarium, illustrating how similar it is to the moorish idol.Moorish idols are notorious for being difficult to maintain in captivity. They require enormous tanks, often exceeding 200 U.S. gal, are voracious eaters, and are infamous for becoming incredibly destructive. Their captive survival rate is very low: most do not survive for a full year. Most that live past this mark typically die shortly thereafter. It is not recommended that any aquarist attempt to keep this species, because it is considered cruel by many and is nearly impossible (see diet). To avoid these shortfalls, some aquarists prefer to keep substitute species that look very similar to the Moorish Idol. These substitutes are all butterflyfishes of the genus Heniochus, and include the pennant coralfish, Heniochus acuminatus; threeband pennantfish, H. chrysostomus; and the false moorish idol, H. diphreutes.
 

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2784050
I know that they need sponge in their diet and, the only food I am aware of that uses sponge is Angel Formula, which I'll pick up. Any others?
Don't be afraid to get some live sponge, some tree or ball sponge and see if the Idols like it (probably will take a lot of time to adjust, my Blueface is finally starting to eat a red tree sponge after many months).
 

crimzy

Active Member
Thanks all... I am pretty anxious about this purchase and I am well aware of the poor reputation for these guys to live in captivity. The real issue for me is whether they are very difficult to keep vs. impossible to keep.
I think that the conditions that will be provided will be as good as any. The tank should be large enough, tankmates (IMO) are pretty compatible. I will offer a variety of foods and feed every 3 hours or so throughout the day. Aside from this, I will provide live sponge, as suggested above, and do regular water changes.
If it turns out after all this that mine do not survive then it will convince me that these fish generally cannot be kept in an aquarium. Needless to say that I am more than a bit nervous about keeping these guys.
 

2batrigger

Member
good luck with those you'll need it. make sure there are no other fish that will hassle them at all. have good water flow in the tank and it should be a large tank like a 180 and definitly go buy some nice live rock with a lot of sponge on it and add in a nice amount of a macro algae like caulerpa or something but not cheato as they will not eat that kind. is d-town Detroit? i live downriver if they do well i'd love to come see'em some day.
 

spanko

Active Member
OMG I love those fish! Here is some information on them that might be helpful.
* Other Common Names: None Known
* Hawaiian Name: Ki-hi ki-hi
* Scientific Name: Zanclus cornutus (Linnaeus, 1758), also found in books as Z. canescens (Linnaeus, 1758)
* Source Info: Debbie & Stan Hauter, and in reference to Fishes of Hawaii by Spencer W. Tinker, and Marine Fishes 500+ Essential-To-Know Aquarium Species by Scott W. Michael.
Identification
The Moorish Idol with its unusual shape, black, white and yellow stripes, long protruding snout, and long streamer pennant, it is hard to mistake this fish for any other. However, because its shape is so similar to a that of a freshwater Angelfish, people often call it an Angelfish. It is in fact not an Angelfish, nor is it a Butterflyfish, but a fish that is most closely related to Surgeonfishes (Acanthruidae), and is the only fish in the family Zanclidae. Another fish the Moorish Idol can be mistaken for is the False Moorish Idol or Pennant Butterflyfish, Heniochus acuminatus and H. diphreutes. Zanclus cornutus is the only TRUE Moorish Idol.
The Moorish Idol prefers the shallower waters inside and outside the reef, but can often be found to deeper depths of 100+ feet.
The average length of a Moorish Idol is about six inches, but well aged adults can grow to about nine inches.
The distribution of this species includes the warm tropical water from Hawai'i to Australia, and from the west coast of Central America westward to the coast of Africa and the Red Sea.
Characteristics
The Moorish Idol has the notoriety of being a difficult fish to keep, and rightly so. It is an extremely sensitive fish to care for when it comes to feeding and water quality. The general consensus amongst most aquarists is that it should not be kept in an aquarium, but despite this it is still quite desired and sought after.
From our experiences of collecting and keeping this fish for 10 years, in our opinion the most critical factor of keeping a Moorish Idol pertains to feeding. Because it is a thin fish to start with, it can become emaciated quickly if it does not eat, and once it loses its appetite it is next to impossible to get it to eat again.
We feel that the main key to success for keeping this fish starts with the collector. If a collector does not take the time to immediately feed it, its health begins to decline from the get go. We had great success with our Idols because we always began feeding them vitamin enhanced flake foods, dried or fresh/frozen shrimp, and nori the next day following collection. We would continue to feed them daily up until two days before shipping them to our customers, packing them in oversized bags, to provide them with an ample oxygen supply and plenty of water (treated with our packing water secret sauce) for coverage and room to move around. From the attention that we would give them while in our care and during the shipping process, upon arriving at their destination, our customers would tell us that they had begun eating within a day or two, and often within hours of acclimation into their systems.
In regards to the second most important factor in keeping this fish, water quality, the Moorish Idol is very sensitive to the slightest increase in ammonia levels and changes in pH. Taking both the time to properly acclimate this fish into an aquarium, and follow regular aquarium maintenance routines to ensure good environmental conditions are of the utmost importance to its survival.
There are many mixed opinions about whether or not you can keep multiple numbers of these fish together. Some say to keep them singly or only in mated pairs, and some say they only do well in groups of four, six, ten, or whatever. We do know that when it comes to the maturing and full grown adult Moorish Idols, they do not get along well with one another. These are best kept singly or in mated pairs. As for juveniles, these do much better communally and can be kept in groups, but their compatibility nature towards one another is rather unpredictable.
 

spanko

Active Member
Continued............
Over the 10 years we dealt with this species, we tried everything from placing two to six juveniles in a 55 gallon aquarium, to 25 (+ or -) juveniles in a 4' H x 4' W x 3' D holding tank, all at the same time we might add, and would always get varied results in behavior. Most often this is what would happen; everyone got along just fine with no problems at all; some bickering would take place for a day or two and then everybody would settle down; or one would dominate the group and bully everybody else relentlessly. If the bully scenario occurred we would remove this fish from the community. Following that, either; another Idol would take over as the bully; or they would all settled down and got along just fine. It seemed that no matter what size the tank, or how many fish were put together at any given time, we could not predict if there was going to be a problem or not. However, we noticed that aggressive behavior would diminish when plenty of hiding places and ample swimming room was provided. It is not wise to add another Idol to a group after the initial community has become established, as aggressive behavior increases greatly, like it does with most fish.
The best environment for this fish is to provide it with lots of swimming room to move around unobstructed, and plenty of cover and hiding places. Because it is a very easily frightened fish and rather unpredictable in its compatibility nature, these provisions are important. A minimum tank size of 100 gallons is recommended because of these traits, and of the fact that it can grow to quite a large size.
Diet
The Moorish Idol is an omnivore. Its preferred food sources are sponge, small crustacean and invertebrate life, and some marine algae. The Moorish Idol is a grazer and spends its day cruising and picking. Sometimes an individual may nip at large polyped stony corals and some types of soft coral polyps.
This fish should be fed several times a day, with a varied diet of finely chopped dried, fresh or frozen meaty fares such as shrimp, squid, clams, and live mysid shrimp or vitamin enriched brine shrimp, as well as vegetable matter suitable for herbivores. Because sponge is one of this fish's main natural food sources, provide prepared fares that include sponge in them.
In captivity we know that juveniles adapt much more quickly to eating tank fed fares than adult specimens do, as is with most fish. This makes the choice of a juvenile more desirable, but if you can find an adult specimen that is fat and sassy and already eating well before you buy it, the outlook for success is favorable. Providing a difficult feeder with an ample supply of live rock with a good growth of coraline algae and sponge growth can help it to survive captivity.
Notes From Your Guides
We give the Moorish Idol a Care Rating Level. It is NOT a fish for the beginner, but for an aquarist that is in the well advanced stages of the intermediate level of aquarium keeping, and only if it is a specimen in excellent health, and proper care and environmental conditions are provided for it!!! Aside from the usual things to look for when buying any fish, to help assist you in evaluating the health of a Moorish Idol, here are some specific things you need to observe:
* The body looks full and rounded out, not squeezed or dented inwards anywhere on the body, and its colors are bright and not faded out.
* You visually see for yourself that the fish is eating. Ask the fish store to feed it in your presence.
* The fins and tail are not frayed, ragged, or partially burnt off around the edges. This is most often a sign of previous exposure to ammonia burn, usually stemming from collection, shipping, poor environmental aquarium conditions, and/or improper care.
* The top streamer pennant is not missing. Again, this is most often a sign of previous exposure to ammonia burn, or unfavorable conditions and/or care. However, if the long white streamer pennant is missing, and instead you see a small white filamentous like growth starting to grow out of where the pennant used to be, this is a sign that the fish was exposed to unfavorable conditions at one time, but is recovering and gaining its health back. Refer to and look closely at the first two points of observation above to help guage if the fish's health is improving or not. It is best to even wait a week and check back to see if the filamentous streamer has grown longer, as this is a good sign of increased health.
Debbie & Stan Hauter
Your About Guides to Saltwater Aquariums
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by 2batrigger
http:///forum/post/2784225
good luck with those you'll need it. make sure there are no other fish that will hassle them at all. have good water flow in the tank and it should be a large tank like a 180 and definitly go buy some nice live rock with a lot of sponge on it and add in a nice amount of a macro algae like caulerpa or something but not cheato as they will not eat that kind. is d-town Detroit? i live downriver if they do well i'd love to come see'em some day.
Thanks for the advise... yes D-town is Detroit. Actually I'm in Farmington Hills. If these guys do well I'll host a "My idols lived" party.
Thanks.
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2784235
Did you order them from one of the local stores, Choice, Kee's etc???????
No, searched everywhere locally but couldn't find any. I ordered them from an online source that was referred to me.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
wow - congrats on the big step! I hope it goes well for you Crimzy!
I would have personally gotten heniochus butterfly fish, but I respect the fact that you want a challenge! Goodluck!
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2784250
wow - congrats on the big step! I hope it goes well for you Crimzy!
I would have personally gotten heniochus butterfly fish, but I respect the fact that you want a challenge! Goodluck!
Yeah, I considered the heniochus but went for the idols for a couple reasons. First, while they would probably be OK, I think that the butterfly would be slightly more likely to pick on my stingray than the idol. Beyond this, I prefer the look of the idol. Finally, I have always wanted to try an idol but never really had a tank that I felt would suit them well. The other aspect of this is that I really want to see if it can be done.
 

spiderwoman

Active Member
How mature is your live rock? I have a ton of rock that I really don't like that has natural sponge all over them. Wish you were closer, I'd bring that to you. You could do a refugium that you *overfeed* and that could be your own supply of those white sponges.
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by SpiderWoman
http:///forum/post/2784263
How mature is your live rock? I have a ton of rock that I really don't like that has natural sponge all over them. Wish you were closer, I'd bring that to you. You could do a refugium that you *overfeed* and that could be your own supply of those white sponges.
Spider... I'd love that if you'd be willing to ship. My LR is very established and does have some sponge on it but I will need more. Let me know if we can work something out. I'd really appreciate it.
 

petjunkie

Active Member
If your on -- at all there's a long thread on idols, I wouldn't bother buying ornamental sponges as they normally only eat certain kinds, not just sponges in general. The guy with the most success went out diving and brought back natural food for his. They really are next to impossible to keep though and I can't quite understand why everybody thinks they will have better luck. Even if they are eating they still die.
 

bang guy

Moderator
I wish you the best of luck with the new pair. But please, if they don't survive try to resist replacing them.
 
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