Holy crap... just ordered a pair of moorish idols!!

crimzy

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by myerst22
http:///forum/post/2784762
I am a bit upset to see everyone congratulating someone for purchasing fish that almost doomed to perish within the first couple of months. I don't mean to attack you and wish the fish all the luck in the world, but buy a fish with an almost guaranteed early death sentence. I am all about trying to keep difficult fish but again these fish need to be left on the reefs. Why not get some Heniochus, almost identical and extremely hardy
. Tim
You are entitled to your opinion and your sentiments have been echoed on this thread earlier. I'm not sure that this is impossible to keep but I guess I'll learn that lesson for myself. Granted it's a challenge but there are lots of delicate fish for sale. How many mandarins live more than a year in home aquaria? Do you also object to the sale of power blue tangs, achilles tangs, pinnatus bats, most pipefish, Rock Beauty angels, etc?
I'm taking my chances with this one.
 
spiderwoman

spiderwoman

Active Member
Originally Posted by myerst22
http:///forum/post/2784762
I am a bit upset to see everyone congratulating someone for purchasing fish that almost doomed to perish within the first couple of months. I don't mean to attack you and wish the fish all the luck in the world, but buy a fish with an almost guaranteed early death sentence. I am all about trying to keep difficult fish but again these fish need to be left on the reefs. Why not get some Heniochus, almost identical and extremely hardy
. Tim
I guess the difference is that he knows what he is getting himself into and he has the tank to house the fish. He also is not a noob to SW hobby.
He knows the risks and is willing to take them.
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
when I got up this morning and saw this thread I almost asked if you had your flame retardant suit on.
IMO if expirienced reefers dont push the boundaries, the hobby will never progress. I remember keeping corals under normal output flourescents and now people swear it cant be done. I usually advise against it as there are better options now. but the impossible is only impossible as long as everyone believes it is. there has to be a solution to every problem. its probably something silly like the water chemistry that the food comes from gives it an off flavor so they dont eat enough, or something ridiculous like that.
a moorish idol in the hands of a begginner is almost sure to perish. in the hands of a highly expirienced reefer it stands the best chance expirience can give. that mixed with a little luck and some one will eventually stuble on the key to success. like Bang_Guy said remember when SPS were "All doomed and should not be kept"
best of luck and please keep us updated.
 
dse

dse

Member
Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/2784817
when I got up this morning and saw this thread I almost asked if you had your flame retardant suit on.
IMO if expirienced reefers dont push the boundaries, the hobby will never progress.i agree reefz i would not be in this hobby for those that have tryed,tested,fialed,succseeded I remember keeping corals under normal output flourescents and now people swear it cant be done. I usually advise against it as there are better options now. but the impossible is only impossible as long as everyone believes it is.i'm clapping to this go reefz go reefz there has to be a solution to every problem. its probably something silly like the water chemistry that the food comes from gives it an off flavor so they dont eat enough, or something ridiculous like that.
a moorish idol in the hands of a begginner is almost sure to perish. in the hands of a highly expirienced reefer it stands the best chance expirience can give. that mixed with a little luck and some one will eventually stuble on the key to success. like Bang_Guy said remember when SPS were "All doomed and should not be kept"
best of luck and please keep us updated.
i only have one morething to say.
my mum taught me one thing when i was a child.
if you don't have nothing nice to say shut your mouth or i'll slap you... and every time i opend to kick off bang.. i think you lot get what i'm saying
reefz nailed it by sdaying no trying= forever wondering forever lacking so to all those negitive lay off and stick to your tanks the person who started this is not only doing this for him/her self but will benfit oher in the future. thats all i had to say
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
IMO; if an experienced hobbiest does the research and provides the best possible environment for a difficult fish and the fish still dies; he shouldn't feel any more guilty than someone who eats a tuna sandwich for lunch.
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
I agree experienced hobbyists have to "try" things. 10 years ago you can imagine what I heard when I started with seahorses. BUT, I think everyone needs a game plan when taking on a new challenge, something they are going to do different than with their other "easier" fish, something different than the next blow joe that didn't do it successfully. There's a reason why these guys are difficult to keep... we need to find the missing key and I don't have a problem with people looking for it. But you HAVE to look for it to be responsible and not just treat them like the average fish and hope they will do fine in your tank without any exceptional interventions. That's not directed at anyone.... just my opinion on the whole topic.
 
myerst22

myerst22

Member
You are entitled to your opinion and your sentiments have been echoed on this thread earlier. I'm not sure that this is impossible to keep but I guess I'll learn that lesson for myself. Granted it's a challenge but there are lots of delicate fish for sale. How many mandarins live more than a year in home aquaria? Do you also object to the sale of power blue tangs, achilles tangs, pinnatus bats, most pipefish, Rock Beauty angels, etc?
I'm taking my chances with this one.
All but two of the fishes you mentioned can easily be kept if the proper conditions are met. Unfortunately many will not not meet these expectations. The two fish are the batfish and the rock beauty. Pipefish just need a constant supply of food, super clean water, no aggrerssors. The tangs you listed need super clean water, high levels of O2, constant food source. I have kept both tangs thriving for many years as many other have who have met their needs.
Believe me one of the great beauties of the hobby is challenging ourselves to keep these extraordinary animals. As was said keeping corals was once a dream but know can be done with proper care. Yet still we are not even close to keep them thriving as these animals have no life span per se. When you have so many other options for fish that almost identical to the idol why not go that route. I am sure you are experienced but by no means a aquarist. You purchasing the fish makes the distibutor fill the void for another pair to be purchased, probably by a less experienced person then yourself. Also the newbie seeing the majority of these posts that were written intially sends the wrong the message about these fish being kept. The main reason there is little success with this species is that they need very large super mature displays for them to thrive, which many of us cannot provide.
In closing I wish you and your new fish a long life and who knows you may some how find that missing link to keeping this fish long term....
 
crimzy

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by myerst22
http:///forum/post/2785046
All but two of the fishes you mentioned can easily be kept if the proper conditions are met. Unfortunately many will not not meet these expectations. The two fish are the batfish and the rock beauty. Pipefish just need a constant supply of food, super clean water, no aggrerssors. The tangs you listed need super clean water, high levels of O2, constant food source. I have kept both tangs thriving for many years as many other have who have met their needs.
Believe me one of the great beauties of the hobby is challenging ourselves to keep these extraordinary animals. As was said keeping corals was once a dream but know can be done with proper care. Yet still we are not even close to keep them thriving as these animals have no life span per se. When you have so many other options for fish that almost identical to the idol why not go that route. I am sure you are experienced but by no means a aquarist. You purchasing the fish makes the distibutor fill the void for another pair to be purchased, probably by a less experienced person then yourself. Also the newbie seeing the majority of these posts that were written intially sends the wrong the message about these fish being kept. The main reason there is little success with this species is that they need very large super mature displays for them to thrive, which many of us cannot provide.
In closing I wish you and your new fish a long life and who knows you may some how find that missing link to keeping this fish long term....
Hey, there's no hard feelings as I completely understand your opinion. However when you first tried to keep the powder blue and achilles, don't you think that there may have been others who would advise against it? I am putting these guys into a 450 gallon tank with rock and sand that is at least 5 years old, and more in some cases, though the tank is relatively new. I appreciate the well wishes and I also hope that I can keep them healty. If I can't, you can bet that I will be on here advising against anyone else trying this.
However, this thread was not started as a "Should I get a moorish idol". If it was, I'm sure many other people would express a similar opinion to yours. However I did already order these idols and I wanted to get some suggestions regarding what has worked and what people have heard to have worked. Pretty much everyone who has posted has contributed excellent ideas that, hopefully, will help me keep these two healthy.
Again, I appreciate your opinion and don't disagree that idols represent a great challenge. I am not looking to kill fish nor advance the hobby, but simply to do my best to keep a fish that I have always wanted. If I somehow find a recipe for success with these idols, wouldn't you be interested in knowing how it went and, potentially, trying to duplicate the recipe?
Trust me, though, if these two die I will feel extremely guilty. I have lost just one fish in the last 5 years and I don't want to increase that percentage now. People used to say that discus were almost impossible to keep but I have yet to lose one in my first 3 years of keeping them.
Finally, regarding the heniochus, it is, IMO, slightly more of a risk to pick on my stingray than the idols. It would also be slightly less beautiful.
In summation, am I being a selfish jerk by trying to keep a fish that so many have failed with??? I guess we'll find out.
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
I know someone that had one for 2 years. It didn't die a "moorish idol death" but went down with a few other fish. Ich I believe. That thing was SO sweet and SO fat... it was such a shame.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/2785662
I know someone that had one for 2 years. It didn't die a "moorish idol death" but went down with a few other fish. Ich I believe. That thing was SO sweet and SO fat... it was such a shame.
So dumb have the "impossible fish" and kill it by not hypoing a fish before it goes into the DT.
BTW your location is funny.
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
I think one fish beat the snot out of another and then the whole tank came down with it. Bad practice and lesson learned, I'm sure. This was about 3-4 years ago.
Caulerpa? What Caulerpa?
 
crimzy

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2785670
So dumb have the "impossible fish" and kill it by not hypoing a fish before it goes into the DT.
BTW your location is funny.
I disagree. Hypo is extremely stressful and many fish die in hypo. I think if you add the stress of transfer, then stick an idol in hypo, only to hope to transfer it again shortly thereafter, your chances of losing it immediately are very strong. I would argue that you may not even be giving the fish a chance by putting it through that right away. JMO.
 
A

alexmir

Guest
good luck crimzy!!!!!
I can't wait for pics of them!!
A LFS had an idol in a few months ago. My friends who worked there got it to eat fresh shellfish from the grocery store. They are SUCH beautiful fish, and i really hope that you have a successful go withthem.
Are they a pair-s.e'x-ual or pair-just 2 idols
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Just did a Google Image search and they are beautiful in the wild. I notice some are whiter and some are yellow. Do you have a preference?
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2785717
I disagree. Hypo is extremely stressful and many fish die in hypo. I think if you add the stress of transfer, then stick an idol in hypo, only to hope to transfer it again shortly thereafter, your chances of losing it immediately are very strong. I would argue that you may not even be giving the fish a chance by putting it through that right away. JMO.
I have very mixed feelings about hypo in QT. I know I'm in the minority; but I use copper (SeaChem Cupramine) on almost all fish in QT. (many dealers, online retailers and wholesalers do too.) Easy, safe & extremely effective. With the exception of copper-sensitive fish, such as Flame Angels; I see absolutely no reason not to use it as a preventive. I also use a minimal dose of a de-wormer. I can't remember the last time I even suspected a parasite in any of my DTs.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2785717
I disagree. Hypo is extremely stressful and many fish die in hypo. I think if you add the stress of transfer, then stick an idol in hypo, only to hope to transfer it again shortly thereafter, your chances of losing it immediately are very strong. I would argue that you may not even be giving the fish a chance by putting it through that right away. JMO.
I've never killed a fish in a hypo. I haven't studied it, but I'd imagine most fish that do die in hypo is because the aquarist doesn't do a good job monitering water quality. Which can be difficult when slowly changing out the water, and with a minimal amount of biological filtration.
In fact the only fish I've actually killed, are fish that I haven't hypo-ed.
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2785814
I have very mixed feelings about hypo in QT. I know I'm in the minority; but I use copper (SeaChem Cupramine) on almost all fish in QT. Easy, safe & extremely effective.
Either way, when I do set up my next fowlr, and it is full of several hundred dollar fish like crosshatches, or the "impossible fish" I'm going to make darn sure it doesn't have parasites or worms going in. Whether it be hypo, or copper.
 
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