House passed the Health Bill

darthtang aw

Active Member
Ok, this is good....let's start here.
How does this bill guarantee insurance to the currently uninsured?
You wrote:
I thought that was the whole premise of this bill. To provide affordable insurance to the 32 million or so people who currently have no insurance.
This doesn't explain how.
and if the entire premise for this bill is to cover just 32 million people, That is fine. But explain to me how the government will be able to get insurance for a little over 2,000 per year for these people. This figure I came up with if the entire 940 billion over 10 years were used on this alone. Factor in the amount of money they have in this bill for grants and other funding, that 2000 a year becomes a lot less....................
You'd have to show me in the bill where it references that anyone making less than 250,000 will be accessed an increase in their income tax. Everything I read states that people making over 250,000 would see a 2.9% or 3.9% tax increase, and they'd also see atax put on their investments. Again, I never read where the average citizen who makes less than this would be taxed on their income.
A 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services goes into effect in July 2010.
The bill will limit the deduction on medical expenses to amounts above 10 percent of income starting in 2013. Currently, the deduction floor is 7.5 percent of income. The floor will remain at 7.5 percent for taxpayers 65 years and older. Hate to tell you, but changing when deductions can be used and increasing the dollar amount before they can kick in, is in fact a tax increase.......
Let's break this down.
a guy earning 40,000 a year would have to acrue 4000 dollars a year in medical bills before he write this off. before that number was around 3000 a year. so basically they have to spend an additional 1000 dollars year on medical expenses before they can write anything off......so basically those people that don't meet this criteria will be taxed more since they no longer have the write off. This is a tax increase on everyone. This is on what they pay out of pocket, not the total amount for the bill including the portion picked up by the insurance company.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253721
You are absolutely correct. The elections in November will be the first indicator to gauge whether people are tired and disgusted with Obama's and the Democrat-led Congress way of doing things. Can these Tea Party groups actually band together and voice their opinions the way they should be voiced, through the electorial vote, or are they just all talk and no action? Historically, less than 20% of the American voters even go out and vote in the 'non-Presidential'/midterm elections. Most of them just vote along party lines, or simply by a name on the ballot. They don't even bother to research the candidate's platform. Pretty much why the majority of Congress is filled with 'lifers' as members.
In my experience those who attend rallies not only vote they encourage friends and family to vote with them. At this point it's really more abut the Republicans than the Tea Party. If the Republicans don't stumble over their own feet they will do good in November.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
You wrote:
"I honestly don't think the intent of the bill was to reduce insurance premiums across the board. Meaning, people who have existing insurance with their companies shouldn't see much of a change. The people who will see a drop in their premiums are those independents that aren't under some corporate insurance umbrella policy. The one's I would categorize as the 'self insured'."
The whole complaint and argument this whole time is insurance premiums are out of control and ridiculously expensive. If this bill doesn't reduce the cost, what was the point? Oh yeah, we needed 2000 pages to insure 32 million people.............
 

reefraff

Active Member
I wouldn't be surprised if insurance companies start sending out rate increase notices this summer, just in time to remind voters what the Democrat party did for them. Politically motivated? You bet but so was this whole bill.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
I forgot this nugget of middle class tax increase.
EXCISE TAX ON "CADILLAC" HEALTH PLANS
* A new 40 percent excise tax on high-cost health plans goes into effect in 2018 and would raise an estimated $32 billion the first two years it is in effect.
The tax would be imposed on the value of health plans in excess of $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. The tax threshold for plans covering early retirees or people in high-risk professions is $1,650 higher for individuals and $3,450 higher for families. Higher tax thresholds are also allowed for employer-provided plans covering mostly women or older workers.
The tax increases proposed will only bring in an estimated 400 billion extra over the next ten years. So where is the rest of the money coming from? over 500 billion in medicare cuts?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3253762
I forgot this nugget of middle class tax increase.
EXCISE TAX ON "CADILLAC" HEALTH PLANS
* A new 40 percent excise tax on high-cost health plans goes into effect in 2018 and would raise an estimated $32 billion the first two years it is in effect.
The tax would be imposed on the value of health plans in excess of $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. The tax threshold for plans covering early retirees or people in high-risk professions is $1,650 higher for individuals and $3,450 higher for families. Higher tax thresholds are also allowed for employer-provided plans covering mostly women or older workers.
The tax increases proposed will only bring in an estimated 400 billion extra over the next ten years. So where is the rest of the money coming from? over 500 billion in medicare cuts?
You don't REALLY think Congress will ever allow that tax to be implemented do you? It would be political suicide.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/3253677
its not gonna destroy the system, its gonna make it better. the system was unsustainable over the long haul and both sides of the aisle agrees on that. the Washington Post has a healthcare calculator, i used it and it appears i will pay about 600 to 1000 less per year for the same plan i have now.
there are always stories of folks overcoming great hardships/odds. but for every one of those stories there are thousands of cases where folks lost nearly everything....
lol Seriously?
Because Government taking stuff over has never ever resulted in anything bad ever...
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/3253677
. the Washington Post has a healthcare calculator, i used it and it appears i will pay about 600 to 1000 less per year for the same plan i have now.
.
Do you have insurance through your employer? Because when I calculated mine, it would actually cost me more, since my parttime employer is picking up 70% of the cost.
Also, thanks to Vinny's washington post calculator I was informed of this tax nugget as well.
"Your Medicare payroll taxes will increase by 0.9% (from 1.45% to 2.35%) and you will have to pay a 3.8% tax on investment income." My family makes less than 250,000 a year....Obama lied.....
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/3253677
its not gonna destroy the system, its gonna make it better. the system was unsustainable over the long haul and both sides of the aisle agrees on that. the Washington Post has a healthcare calculator, i used it and it appears i will pay about 600 to 1000 less per year for the same plan i have now.
there are always stories of folks overcoming great hardships/odds. but for every one of those stories there are thousands of cases where folks lost nearly everything....
Yeah, but are your costs going down or are you getting a subsidy from the government to cover your costs? Subsidies aren't going to look very attractive when the insurance co's get through jacking rates because of the wave of pre existing conditions they are going to have to cover. They jacked rates this year just because of the possibility of this bill passing. Now that reality is here look out, gonna be uglier than a convintion of Rosie Odonell impersonators.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3253777
Do you have insurance through your employer? Because when I calculated mine, it would actually cost me more, since my parttime employer is picking up 70% of the cost.
Also, thanks to Vinny's washington post calculator I was informed of this tax nugget as well.
"Your Medicare payroll taxes will increase by 0.9% (from 1.45% to 2.35%) and you will have to pay a 3.8% tax on investment income." My family makes less than 250,000 a year....Obama lied.....
I can't find anything to explain exactly what the rule will be on investment income. Some say it only kicks in on people making over 250K and some are saying the new tax applies to all investment income. The lack of information leads me to believe we will all be paying it which sucks. I depend on interests and dividends to make up for lost salary. Cap gain taxes are already going up so I will take a pretty good hit on that anyway.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3253745
Ok, this is good....let's start here.
How does this bill guarantee insurance to the currently uninsured?
You wrote:
I thought that was the whole premise of this bill. To provide affordable insurance to the 32 million or so people who currently have no insurance.
This doesn't explain how.
and if the entire premise for this bill is to cover just 32 million people, That is fine. But explain to me how the government will be able to get insurance for a little over 2,000 per year for these people. This figure I came up with if the entire 940 billion over 10 years were used on this alone. Factor in the amount of money they have in this bill for grants and other funding, that 2000 a year becomes a lot less....................
A 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services goes into effect in July 2010.
The bill will limit the deduction on medical expenses to amounts above 10 percent of income starting in 2013. Currently, the deduction floor is 7.5 percent of income. The floor will remain at 7.5 percent for taxpayers 65 years and older. Hate to tell you, but changing when deductions can be used and increasing the dollar amount before they can kick in, is in fact a tax increase.......
Let's break this down.
a guy earning 40,000 a year would have to acrue 4000 dollars a year in medical bills before he write this off. before that number was around 3000 a year. so basically they have to spend an additional 1000 dollars year on medical expenses before they can write anything off......so basically those people that don't meet this criteria will be taxed more since they no longer have the write off. This is a tax increase on everyone. This is on what they pay out of pocket, not the total amount for the bill including the portion picked up by the insurance company.
You want to use this reduction in the percentage you can deduct on your income taxes for medical expenses as a justification for saying my taxes are going up? Give me a break. I've never known ANYONE who could use the medical deduction on their income tax return. You have to almost be in your death bed and have hundreds of thousands worth of medical bills before you even meet the minimums based on your income. My wife had her major surgery a couple years ago, and her total hospital bill was over $85,000. I thought, "Hey, I can finally go over my minimum requirement for writing off medical expenses on Schedule A this year". SORRY. I can only write off the amount I PAID for those medical expenses. My wife's Out Of Pocket Max was $8,000, so that's all I could write off. Needless to say, I did even fill that information out on my Schedule A that year.
10 percent tax on tanning services?

PLEASE send me a picture of you sitting in a tanning bed. That's one I'll frame and put in my office.

The only people this will tick off are the brain-dead, self absorbed bimbits that live in California.
I think Texas is about to pass a law that prohibits anyone under the age of 18 from even using tanning services. Yet another reason why State Govt. is no better than Federal Govt. But of course you'll just tell me to move to Indiana if I want to let my 15 year old daughter get a tan.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253813
You want to use this reduction in the percentage you can deduct on your income taxes for medical expenses as a justification for saying my taxes are going up? Give me a break. I've never known ANYONE who could use the medical deduction on their income tax return. You have to almost be in your death bed and have hundreds of thousands worth of medical bills before you even meet the minimums based on your income. My wife had her major surgery a couple years ago, and her total hospital bill was over $85,000. I thought, "Hey, I can finally go over my minimum requirement for writing off medical expenses on Schedule A this year". SORRY. I can only write off the amount I PAID for those medical expenses. My wife's Out Of Pocket Max was $8,000, so that's all I could write off. Needless to say, I did even fill that information out on my Schedule A that year.
10 percent tax on tanning services?

PLEASE send me a picture of you sitting in a tanning bed. That's one I'll frame and put in my office.

The only people this will tick off are the brain-dead, self absorbed bimbits that live in California.
I think Texas is about to pass a law that prohibits anyone under the age of 18 from even using tanning services. Yet another reason why State Govt. is no better than Federal Govt. But of course you'll just tell me to move to Indiana if I want to let my 15 year old daughter get a tan.

Currently you get to claim all medical expenses including insurance premiums that exceed 7.5% of your income. I wrote some off a few years ago when I bought the hot tub. Fair amount of people use that deduction quite often.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3253762
I forgot this nugget of middle class tax increase.
EXCISE TAX ON "CADILLAC" HEALTH PLANS
* A new 40 percent excise tax on high-cost health plans goes into effect in 2018 and would raise an estimated $32 billion the first two years it is in effect.
The tax would be imposed on the value of health plans in excess of $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. The tax threshold for plans covering early retirees or people in high-risk professions is $1,650 higher for individuals and $3,450 higher for families. Higher tax thresholds are also allowed for employer-provided plans covering mostly women or older workers.
The tax increases proposed will only bring in an estimated 400 billion extra over the next ten years. So where is the rest of the money coming from? over 500 billion in medicare cuts?
What exactly is contained in these "Cadillac Health Plans"? Who would pay over $10 grand per year for a insurance policy? If you can afford that, just take the 'Rush Approach' and pay for medical costs when you need it.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253813
You want to use this reduction in the percentage you can deduct on your income taxes for medical expenses as a justification for saying my taxes are going up? Give me a break. I've never known ANYONE who could use the medical deduction on their income tax return. You have to almost be in your death bed and have hundreds of thousands worth of medical bills before you even meet the minimums based on your income. My wife had her major surgery a couple years ago, and her total hospital bill was over $85,000. I thought, "Hey, I can finally go over my minimum requirement for writing off medical expenses on Schedule A this year". SORRY. I can only write off the amount I PAID for those medical expenses. My wife's Out Of Pocket Max was $8,000, so that's all I could write off. Needless to say, I did even fill that information out on my Schedule A that year.
10 percent tax on tanning services?

PLEASE send me a picture of you sitting in a tanning bed. That's one I'll frame and put in my office.

The only people this will tick off are the brain-dead, self absorbed bimbits that live in California.
I think Texas is about to pass a law that prohibits anyone under the age of 18 from even using tanning services. Yet another reason why State Govt. is no better than Federal Govt. But of course you'll just tell me to move to Indiana if I want to let my 15 year old daughter get a tan.

The tanning i just threw in.
Nice to know you make so much money the 8000 dollar write off meant crap to you. but to the average family of four. it is real easy to rack up 2500 dollars in medical bills....now the average family will have their taxes increased because they can no longer write that off. My dad alone racks up 5000 a year.....guess what, he can't write that off now.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3253816
Currently you get to claim all medical expenses including insurance premiums that exceed 7.5% of your income. I wrote some off a few years ago when I bought the hot tub. Fair amount of people use that deduction quite often.
OK, I'll bite. How can you write off a Hot Tub as a medical expense? Sounds like a visit from the IRS Audit Police to me.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3253821
The tanning i just threw in.
Nice to know you make so much money the 8000 dollar write off meant crap to you. but to the average family of four. it is real easy to rack up 2500 dollars in medical bills....now the average family will have their taxes increased because they can no longer write that off. My dad alone racks up 5000 a year.....guess what, he can't write that off now.
Believe me, I know what it's like to live on an 'average salary'. Even when I was, I never was able to accumulate enough medical expenses to write them off on my taxes. My first wife got into a major auto accident where she needed constructive nose surgery, TWICE. I was only making $28,000/year at the time, and she was making around $15,000. Still couldn't write her bills off. Again, because the Out Of Pocket Max on my insurance was lower than what the minimal deduction was.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253822
OK, I'll bite. How can you write off a Hot Tub as a medical expense? Sounds like a visit from the IRS Audit Police to me.
I have a prescription for water therapy. It's pretty hard for me to gimp into a public pool without help (I walk with crutches). I am in the tub about 2 hours a day weather permitting. Sometimes more. I got an 11 foot long beast I can exercise it. It has really helped a lot. I don't push it. The people at the hot tub place tell me some of their customers write off chemicals and electricity. If they ever did audit me (wrote it off 3 years ago) I can get 3 or 4 neighbors who will be able to say they see me exercising in the tub on a regular basis (and I aint even talking 12 oz curls)
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253825
Believe me, I know what it's like to live on an 'average salary'. Even when I was, I never was able to accumulate enough medical expenses to write them off on my taxes. My first wife got into a major auto accident where she needed constructive nose surgery, TWICE. I was only making $28,000/year at the time, and she was making around $15,000. Still couldn't write her bills off. Again, because the Out Of Pocket Max on my insurance was lower than what the minimal deduction was.

How many years ago was that and what was the tax write off limit then? See this has chnged quite a bit over the years. It used to be a set dollar amount...then went to a percentage. That percentage has fluctuated over the years. So just because you didn't qualify then, does not mean the same circumstance would apply today.
This is my point. we created this plan for 32 million people. a small percentage of the population. And you say this is needed and a good thing. I would agree with that. But then, when their is a tax increase, your logic is, well it is only a few people.....which isn't true, not everyone has insurance that picks up 90% of the cost. But regardless....you are willing to give a pass because in your mind it "isn't everyone" that loses this option. No, it is the people that need it most...the elderly and those with young children or children with medical problems.
 

cranberry

Active Member
Well, I just had a Canada flash back. Couldn't get in to a cardiologist for a MONTH.... I'm lucky, I have connections. I pity y'all who don't when this all comes into play.
I was going to email the CEO of the hospital and tell him I was heading over to the competition across the street after work in my scrubs that say "Property Of Blank Hospital", my work badge still on and Blank hospital's insurance card... I started with my immediate Director and had to go no further.
 
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