House passed the Health Bill

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/3253319
your not in charge of your destiny when you can pay your premiums your whole life and then when you get sick your insurance company drops you or raises your rates beyond your means. how hard is that to understand? if anything this law allows you to live your dreams by regulating a corrupt and greedy industry. we are promised life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. its kinda hard to aquire those things if you go bankrupt just becuase you got sick!
I dunno know what to tell you. I've just never seen that happen. I can go down the list of Family , with heath problems. And they've been able to afford it, they're all self made and self employed. They're are in the high risk category. My Fatherinlaw has had 4 heart attacks. He works for himself. He's the only employee. And he's out of medical debt. With no insurance. He did it. And he can barily walk. My uncle has had major health problems, his insurance never dropped him. My best friend is in remission from Cancer, that has a 90% recurrance rate in 5 years. He's at 5 years and his insurance never dropped him... And I can list you 5 or 6 more. Quite simply they're taking a a handful of people who don't fit into the system, and using them to destroy the system for Everyone. A typical liberal argument ploy. And quite frankly if you don't believe you could face insurmountable odds and overcome it, then you don't believe in yourself and you don't believe in this great country...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253329
Here you go Darth and Reef. Looks like the evil Dictator Obama is heeding your advise:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/...tml?eref=ib_us
Quite frankly I don't believe it. Remember the last time the dems claimed to be opening up drilling, they chose all these tracks that were useless. It would be like saying ok you can farm, but you have to do it on the moon.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3253332
I dunno know what to tell you. I've just never seen that happen. I can go down the list of Family , with heath problems. And they've been able to afford it, they're all self made and self employed. They're are in the high risk category. My Fatherinlaw has had 4 heart attacks. He works for himself. He's the only employee. And he's out of medical debt. With no insurance. He did it. And he can barily walk. My uncle has had major health problems, his insurance never dropped him. My best friend is in remission from Cancer, that has a 90% recurrance rate in 5 years. He's at 5 years and his insurance never dropped him... And I can list you 5 or 6 more. Quite simply they're taking a a handful of people who don't fit into the system, and using them to destroy the system for Everyone. A typical liberal argument ploy. And quite frankly if you don't believe you could face insurmountable odds and overcome it, then you don't believe in yourself and you don't believe in this great country...
How old is your father-in-law? My father had to get a five-way bypass when he was 67, and it got covered under Medicare/Medicaid. He also had supplemental insurance to pick up the slack. However, that was 16 years ago. I saw the bills back then, and for the numerous times he ended up in the hospital before he died, they totaled over $300,000. No telling what those numbers would be today. So where did your FIL get this magical health coverage where it didn't bankrupt him?
A buddy of mine has Stage 2 Hodgkins Lymphoma. He's only 34. He has very good insurance with the company he's been working for. They've put him on Short and Long Disability, and so far, his medical bills for his multiple chemo treatments and the side effects to his cancer is reaching over $1.2 MILLION. He said one chemo treatment is over $80,000/pop. He still has a bone marrow transplant to go through. I talked to him the other day, and he's pretty worried he may lose access to his treatments. It seems his company was bought out last year, and after the buyout, they went and got a different insurance provider for their employees. He went in for a chemo treatment, and was denied coverage. He called the HR Rep for the company, and they're saying that since this is a new insurance plan under the new company name, all employees have to 'reapply' for their medical benefits. Well guess what. This new insurance company doesn't want to cover my buddy due to "PRE-EXISTING" medical problems. His company is trying to do everything they can to get him added, but they aren't making any promises.
My wife is an ICU nurse at a local hospital. She can provide multiple examples of people who get admitted to the ICU with similar issues with their health insurance coverage. So I hate to tell you, this isn't just a 'handful of people' with these problems. Go work in the medical industry for a while. It's a hugh eye opener....

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3253334
Quite frankly I don't believe it. Remember the last time the dems claimed to be opening up drilling, they chose all these tracks that were useless. It would be like saying ok you can farm, but you have to do it on the moon.
"Always with the negative waves Moriarity." Obama could hand you acheck for $10,000 tomorrow, and you'd say it was a plot to sway your vote in the next election.

 

[stdreb27]

In his 50's. He paid for it himself. It is amazing how much cheaper healthcare is when you dont' have to pay for government red tape... I've got all sorts of family in the medical field. I can give you example after example and example of 40 year old 400 pound obese patent with diabetes who didn't do anything for it. Getting free hospital care, on your and my dime. And now it is just gonna get worse. (Look I'm no advocate of insurance, because I think it is a small scale version of what a single payer system would be as I've argued time and time again.) So if you think the games insurance companies play with government limited competition. Think how bad it is going to be when one organization can make the decisions with absolutely no incentive to provide a better service...

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253340
"Always with the negative waves Moriarity." Obama could hand you acheck for $10,000 tomorrow, and you'd say it was a plot to sway your vote in the next election.

Actually it would be.
Negative waves? Dude, every story you tell is a crap story about someone you know or yourself getting "screwed". I swear to god it amazes me you even have a successful business as crappy as your "luck" and those you know have been.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253286
I'd be afraid that any state-run healthcare would get dictated based on the majority party affiliation of that state.

And a federal one wouldn't? seriously?
You could always move to a different state more akin to your "party".

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3253313
Thank goodness Big Brother "insurance company " had the foresight and socialist wherewithal in mandating Social Security and Medicare (insurance) Premiums from everyone. The only thing I wish the government would now do is end the Advantage Medicare corporate welfare program (or was that done in the fix?). The only bad news with the health care mandate is the private insurance sector will cash in again, perhaps some day we will be single payer.
I've been slapping my own money into retirement since I was 26 (1985) Do you really think I wouldnt have had my tail covered for disability it it wasn't taken out automatically?
They are dropping medicare advantage. Comrade Obama stated that yes, average insurance premiums are going up under his plan but "Your getting better coverage so your costs aren't really going up". How is it corporate welfare if seniors are getting better coverage through the medicare advantage accounts? All this will do is increase costs to the 30% or so of those on medicare with the advantage accounts. As for me I can add on to the wifes insurance for 50 bucks a month less than I pay now. The coverage is pretty close and I almost never go to the doc anyway so it isn't like I am taking a hit but there are plenty of people who will. Really great move there Obama.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253329
Here you go Darth and Reef. Looks like the evil Dictator Obama is heeding your advise:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/...tml?eref=ib_us
Even a chimp can fit a square peg in the square hole once in a while
I hope this goes through but the devil is still in the details, CONGRESS must appove the changes before it can go through. He also is locking up some already approved tracts in Alaska. Without knowing the details of the field size there it's hard to say how good a deal this is but so far I would say bravo Mr. President. Of course like I said, Congress has to appove opening up the offshore areas but I suspect that isn't the case with the areas Obama locked up. I got a feeling I know what's going to happen here but I hope I am wrong.

 

[jazztap10]

Hi from Canada
I don't know very much about the details of the bill that passed for you guys. I just wanted to say, if it's anything like what we have, then congrats! We are lucky enough to be able to focus on getting well when we're hospitalized instead of panicking about money. We also focus more on preventative medicine, which is cheaper in the long run. In my opinion, the health care system is one of the greatest things about Canada. It seemed scary and expensive for us too at first, and many people fought the change, but it ended up being one of the greatest days in our history.
I just wanted to point out that public health care can work fantastic... so don't be so afraid of it.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by jazztap10
http:///forum/post/3253428
Hi from Canada
I don't know very much about the details of the bill that passed for you guys. I just wanted to say, if it's anything like what we have, then congrats! We are lucky enough to be able to focus on getting well when we're hospitalized instead of panicking about money. We also focus more on preventative medicine, which is cheaper in the long run. In my opinion, the health care system is one of the greatest things about Canada. It seemed scary and expensive for us too at first, and many people fought the change, but it ended up being one of the greatest days in our history.
I just wanted to point out that public health care can work fantastic... so don't be so afraid of it.
That's why your top elected officials get their heathcare performed in our country............................

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253329
Here you go Darth and Reef. Looks like the evil Dictator Obama is heeding your advise:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/...tml?eref=ib_us
Just when I went and thought Obama did something right more details come out. this still doesn't open anything up. It only authorizes testing to see if the tracts are suitable for drilling. On the other hand Obama closed off the tracts opened in 08 that were known to ge viable yet he didn't open those back up. Why? He could do that without congressional action. Sounds to me like a total scam. He says he's OK with it, Congress rejects it and at the same time he just locked up more land in Alaska. Sounds like another case of political slight of hand to me.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by jazztap10
http:///forum/post/3253428
Hi from Canada
I don't know very much about the details of the bill that passed for you guys. I just wanted to say, if it's anything like what we have, then congrats! We are lucky enough to be able to focus on getting well when we're hospitalized instead of panicking about money. We also focus more on preventative medicine, which is cheaper in the long run. In my opinion, the health care system is one of the greatest things about Canada. It seemed scary and expensive for us too at first, and many people fought the change, but it ended up being one of the greatest days in our history.
I just wanted to point out that public health care can work fantastic... so don't be so afraid of it.
If your system is so good why did we see so many Canadians coming to Missoula Montana for tests and treatments? Is you system the same all across the nation? Thinking perhaps the problem is in the providence just north of Montana or something but we did have a lot of people coming in and mostly to avoid a long wait.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3253363
Actually it would be.
Negative waves? Dude, every story you tell is a crap story about someone you know or yourself getting "screwed". I swear to god it amazes me you even have a successful business as crappy as your "luck" and those you know have been.
If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. Blue despair and agony on me.
Glad you have such an easy and carefree life there Darth. What's it like to be you?
I guess if the only thing I had to do with myself was sit on my butt and complain how the government is taking all my worldy possessions from me, I could live an easy life as well. I'll let my buddy know you're thinking about him. Send me your address, and I'll have him pack up one of his barf bags from his last chemo treatment and send it to you.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3253364
And a federal one wouldn't? seriously?
You could always move to a different state more akin to your "party".
Wow! You make it sound so simple! Don't like the crap insurance here in Texas? Sure! Just walk away from my successful and profitable business. I'm sure I can start it back up in Podunk, USA where you live. My wife's job at the same hospital for the last 20 years? No problem. Think she can make $80,000/year up there like she's making now? Of course my kids might not like the idea of changing schools, escpecially my youngest who just made the cheerleading team. But hey, she'd just be Cheer Captain in Podunk High. I doubt they'd know what a 'double back round-off' is up there. What's the going rate for a 4200 sq. ft. house up there? I built mine through a custom builder a few years back for $325,000. Sits on a couple of acres in a gated community. Got anything like that up there that isn't in the middle of a corn field? Probably won't make much equity selling it right now, but that's OK!! I'm moving to Podunkville so I can have better health insurance with my fellow 'party members'...

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253450
If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. Blue despair and agony on me.
Glad you have such an easy and carefree life there Darth. What's it like to be you?
I guess if the only thing I had to do with myself was sit on my butt and complain how the government is taking all my worldy possessions from me, I could live an easy life as well. I'll let my buddy know you're thinking about him. Send me your address, and I'll have him pack up one of his barf bags from his last chemo treatment and send it to you.
If you father in laws bills totaled over 300 grand who paid? He certainly wouldn't have paid that in premiums over his lifetime. Thats the thing, all these wonder treatments have to be paid for by someone. We accomplish that now by pooling and the healthy have to pay for the sick. That is just the way it has to be but I don't think it is asking too much to want things like reproductive therapy and elective proceeres not be covered. I also don't think it is outlandish to reel in the excessive lawsuits or require everyone to pay at least something towards their own bills.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3253455
If you father in laws bills totaled over 300 grand who paid? He certainly wouldn't have paid that in premiums over his lifetime. Thats the thing, all these wonder treatments have to be paid for by someone. We accomplish that now by pooling and the healthy have to pay for the sick. That is just the way it has to be but I don't think it is asking too much to want things like reproductive therapy and elective proceeres not be covered. I also don't think it is outlandish to reel in the excessive lawsuits or require everyone to pay at least something towards their own bills.
Actually it was my father. Like I said, he was on Medicare and had some supplemental insurance he got through his former company that he retired from after 30 years. I'd have to check with my sister, but I know my mother didn't end up with too many big bills from his ailments. I do remember when he was in the hospital last, he tried getting out of bed, fainted, and hit his head causing a brain aneurysm. His heart was clogged over 80%, and they pretty much told us he wasn't leaving the hospital because of it. He went into a coma, and instead of letting him die in peace, they talked my mother into letting them perform brain surgery to relieve the pressure from the aneurysm. He didn't make it out of the surgery (which I pretty much knew he wouldn't), and the hospital had the balls to try and bill my mother $85,000 for the operation. Fortunately I had a good lawyer that basically told the hospital to stick it where the sun don't shine, and the only money they would get from that operation is what they could suck out of Medicare (which knowing that convoluted organization, they probably got the entire $85K).

 

[geridoc]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3253332
I dunno know what to tell you. I've just never seen that happen. I can go down the list of Family , with heath problems. And they've been able to afford it, they're all self made and self employed. They're are in the high risk category. My Fatherinlaw has had 4 heart attacks. He works for himself. He's the only employee. And he's out of medical debt. With no insurance. He did it. And he can barily walk. My uncle has had major health problems, his insurance never dropped him. My best friend is in remission from Cancer, that has a 90% recurrance rate in 5 years. He's at 5 years and his insurance never dropped him... And I can list you 5 or 6 more. Quite simply they're taking a a handful of people who don't fit into the system, and using them to destroy the system for Everyone. A typical liberal argument ploy. And quite frankly if you don't believe you could face insurmountable odds and overcome it, then you don't believe in yourself and you don't believe in this great country...
A typical conservative ploy - take a few isolated examples of people who are flourishing under the present system, and ignore the many more in our society who are being hurt by the present system, and assuming that, "Hey, I did it, so to ____ with the rest!". A great country is one that understands that it is a society, and that we are all responsible for each other to an extent. stdreb27 - here's a challenge for you: Make your arguments without once using the epithet "liberal" and see what you have left. Generally, you simply repeat "Liberal = bad".

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3253460
A typical conservative ploy - take a few isolated examples of people who are flourishing under the present system, and ignore the many more in our society who are being hurt by the present system, and assuming that, "Hey, I did it, so to ____ with the rest!". A great country is one that understands that it is a society, and that we are all responsible for each other to an extent. stdreb27 - here's a challenge for you: Make your arguments without once using the epithet "liberal" and see what you have left. Generally, you simply repeat "Liberal = bad".
Why would I try and make an argument where I can't can't call a pig a pig? That is assinine.
Although I do think you missed my point, I was not trying to use that as "proof". I was trying to do 2 things. Point out that for every failure he pointed to, I could point to a success. And 2 trying to illustrate the absurdity of the LIBERAL argument, by using the same techniques against him...
But I guess that went over your head...

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253450
If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. Blue despair and agony on me.
Glad you have such an easy and carefree life there Darth. What's it like to be you?
I guess if the only thing I had to do with myself was sit on my butt and complain how the government is taking all my worldy possessions from me, I could live an easy life as well. I'll let my buddy know you're thinking about him. Send me your address, and I'll have him pack up one of his barf bags from his last chemo treatment and send it to you.

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3253453
Wow! You make it sound so simple! Don't like the crap insurance here in Texas? Sure! Just walk away from my successful and profitable business. I'm sure I can start it back up in Podunk, USA where you live. My wife's job at the same hospital for the last 20 years? No problem. Think she can make $80,000/year up there like she's making now? Of course my kids might not like the idea of changing schools, escpecially my youngest who just made the cheerleading team. But hey, she'd just be Cheer Captain in Podunk High. I doubt they'd know what a 'double back round-off' is up there. What's the going rate for a 4200 sq. ft. house up there? I built mine through a custom builder a few years back for $325,000. Sits on a couple of acres in a gated community. Got anything like that up there that isn't in the middle of a corn field? Probably won't make much equity selling it right now, but that's OK!! I'm moving to Podunkville so I can have better health insurance with my fellow 'party members'...

And, once again you resort to belittling.
But to help you out, we don't have corn fields in the desert, much less the city. but 4200 sq feet depending on where in the city might run you less than that. I got 3200 for less than 200,00o.