How's that Arab Spring working out for you?

theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Now I'm no Hillary Clinton (insert joke here), but I just read that the American Ambassador to Libya was killed, along with three others, when the US Consulate was stormed and shot up with rockets. This happened all because apparently there was some little indie film made somewhere in the US portraying Muhammad as a child molester, or something to that effect. So, to recap...
We spend billions of our dollars helping boot Momar, letting "democracy" take over, and within a year, you have the radical Muslim sect doing things like this. Not to mention that yesterday in Cairo, the embassy there was taken over and the US Flag was burned and replaced with a black Arab flag that Al-Quada has been known to use. All from some stupid movie that some kid probably made in his basement on his Macbook.
My question. Is it better to allow democracy in these places, and watch the radical cream rise to the top? Or is it better to allow people like Saddam and Momar and Mubarak to rule with an Iron Fist, because although they did terrible things, they kept the people in check?
I feel like that unless you literally instill an American democratic governmental system in these countries, all that is going to happen is the next Saddam or Mubarak is going to take over at some point, and it's going to be the same thing over and over. Whether you want to admit it or not, those who follow Muslim will never be ok with the freedoms of speech that we in America have. If it's worth killing because of some stupid movie that no one has ever heard of, then obviously those folks and us are light years away in a lot of areas...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Part of the problem is our government must get it's nose out of fundamentalist Islam's Butt Crack. When you go so far as to refuse to acknowledge the Fort Hood shootings were an act of Islamic terrorism something is way wrong. Instead of apologizing for some lame video they should have called the marines into Egypt yesterday.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Yeah, but you're a bright guy. Seems you could come up with an accurate portrayal instead of just regurgitating an inaccurate phrase.
I know you're just as happy as I am that we spent a billion or so to give them the freedom to kill our diplomats.
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Just read that the guy who made the film that started this whole thing is an Israeli living in California. So the jackass isn't even an American, yet gets lumped into the United States because of our association with Israel.
I'm going to ask a question. Please understand that I am 31, have no family or friendship ties with anyone Jewish, so I don't really understand a lot of our foreign policy when it comes to Israel. My question, is why do we bend over backwards to support Israel, when realistically the Jewish community makes up about 5.7 million of the 320-ish million people in America. That's a little under 2% of the general population. Especially when Judaism and Christianity, while both believe in God, there are obviously differences in the role Jesus plays.
Is it because as a nation that is still a majority Christian or Catholic, that we don't want to see Jeruselam and Gaza taken over by Muslims? Does it have to do with the fact a lot of Jewish people have a ton of financial power in modern America? Is it because Israel is the only real democracy in the region?
If this comes across as satirical or being a smart alec, I'm really not trying to be. I have never really read about, or understood our stance with Israel. So if someone has the "Israel and America for Dummies" that you could explain is a forum post, I would certainly appreciate it! You're never too old to learn!
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/392921/hows-that-arab-spring-working-out-for-you#post_3492276
Is it because as a nation that is still a majority Christian or Catholic, that we don't want to see Jeruselam and Gaza taken over by Muslims? Does it have to do with the fact a lot of Jewish people have a ton of financial power in modern America? Is it because Israel is the only real democracy in the region?
Personally I think that it is because A: Israel is a real democracy like us and B, even though it is a Jewish nation, Christianity got its start there as well. Also, having them as an ally give us a very strong position to fall back on if it ever comes to an all out war with the middle east.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/392921/hows-that-arab-spring-working-out-for-you#post_3492276
Just read that the guy who made the film that started this whole thing is an Israeli living in California. So the jackass isn't even an American, yet gets lumped into the United States because of our association with Israel.
I'm going to ask a question. Please understand that I am 31, have no family or friendship ties with anyone Jewish, so I don't really understand a lot of our foreign policy when it comes to Israel. My question, is why do we bend over backwards to support Israel, when realistically the Jewish community makes up about 5.7 million of the 320-ish million people in America. That's a little under 2% of the general population. Especially when Judaism and Christianity, while both believe in God, there are obviously differences in the role Jesus plays.
Is it because as a nation that is still a majority Christian or Catholic, that we don't want to see Jeruselam and Gaza taken over by Muslims? Does it have to do with the fact a lot of Jewish people have a ton of financial power in modern America? Is it because Israel is the only real democracy in the region?
If this comes across as satirical or being a smart alec, I'm really not trying to be. I have never really read about, or understood our stance with Israel. So if someone has the "Israel and America for Dummies" that you could explain is a forum post, I would certainly appreciate it! You're never too old to learn!

We had a lot to do with the formation of the country after WWII. I think that as well as the strategical importance of having an unwavering ally in the region is why. That and you have a bloc of well moneyed Jewish people in this country who are very politically connected.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Wow! Maybe if 0bama had attended the 50 percent of so of National Security Briefings he missed we would have been better prepared for this mess. And 0bama's reaction to the events??? Campaign and fundraising in Nevada and Colorado.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392921/hows-that-arab-spring-working-out-for-you#post_3492353
Wow! Maybe if 0bama had attended the 50 percent of so of National Security Briefings he missed we would have been better prepared for this mess. And 0bama's reaction to the events??? Campaign and fundraising in Nevada and Colorado.
Brother. Why don't we discuss the new conspiracy theories that Bush had multiple evidence about the 9/11 attacks that he and his staff ignored? Let's chastise Bush for sitting in an elementary school classroom as the towers were falling. Obama had a news conference yesterday that dealt with the Libya attack and death of this Ambassador. He was apprised of the situation the entire time. I'm SURE Bush or some Republican would've stopped their Presidential campaign with less than two months until the election to go back to Washington to get updated about something we had no control of handling. You want Obama to declare war on Libya now?
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392921/hows-that-arab-spring-working-out-for-you#post_3492363
You want Obama to declare war on Libya now?
Well we went there with this administration in the first place without declaring war or obtaining congressional approval just the same as we have with other administrations. Why don't we just all agree that the turmoil in the Middle East is as old as the hills, and that our meddling in their affairs no matter which party is not going to change it. American blood and fortunes are misspent trying to do so.
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///t/392921/hows-that-arab-spring-working-out-for-you#post_3492370
Well we went there with this administration in the first place without declaring war or obtaining congressional approval just the same as we have with other administrations. Why don't we just all agree that the turmoil in the Middle East is as old as the hills, and that our meddling in their affairs no matter which party is not going to change it. American blood and fortunes are misspent trying to do so.

We need to get the hell out of there and develop our own oil resources.
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/392921/hows-that-arab-spring-working-out-for-you#post_3492404
I agree, we should abandon the Middle East.
I guess that was the point of asking the question. In no way am I trying to sound insensitive to the Jewish folks, but I really don't understand how having a strong ally in the middle east is worth all the other crap that comes with supporting Israel. In a modern world, with modern weapons and global aircraft and carriers, do we really NEED to have somewhere to land our planes? I don't think that there is a thing we can do about all the squabbling and fighting that has been going on there forever. It's going to continue whether we are there or not. So why not just cut our losses and get the heck outta there?
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
All of this not to mention that the General Government continues to appropriate billions of dollars in aid to these countries in an effort to persuade them into the freedom that we enjoy. Well I think the news is that they don't want our way of government and that they will gladly take U.S. citizens money as long as it is given to them. Then turn around and use it against U.S. citizens as their need presents itself.
All I see is that we keep fighting them so that they will leave us alone. All the while killing their people and enraging them all the more. "Oh but we must fight them on their soil so they don't come here to ours" are the cries representatives in our government on both sides of the aisle, as if we could not defend our homeland. I cannot see any country doing the things to us that we do to others and us just standing by without outrage and fighting back, so why do we think it should work the other way around?
******shakes head in wonder******
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392921/hows-that-arab-spring-working-out-for-you#post_3492363
Brother. Why don't we discuss the new conspiracy theories that Bush had multiple evidence about the 9/11 attacks that he and his staff ignored? Let's chastise Bush for sitting in an elementary school classroom as the towers were falling. Obama had a news conference yesterday that dealt with the Libya attack and death of this Ambassador. He was apprised of the situation the entire time. I'm SURE Bush or some Republican would've stopped their Presidential campaign with less than two months until the election to go back to Washington to get updated about something we had no control of handling. You want Obama to declare war on Libya now?
Why weren't we prepared for the protests? They knew they were coming. 2 more embassies were hit overnight. 0bama went to a fundraiser instead of meeting with his national security team. The administration's response was that 0bama was fine just reading a report. Really? No questions to be asked? Yeah, his past experience makes him an intelligence expert who would never need clarification of anything LOL!
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Thing is if we just leave the middle east to blow up it will eventually find it's way here. We have jackassed groups right in this country that raise money and spreads propaganda in support of the radicals.
 
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