I hate the abbreviation...X-mas....

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
http:///forum/post/2833804
o.m.g. ive been saying this for eons. where are you when im having dinner parties??? for heaven's sake, crimzy HONESTLY.
I've been there, taking notes. I'm the nerdy, quiet guy in the corner who stares inappropriately at the elderly women.

 

[mimzy]

Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2833816
Very interesting. I'm a bit different in that I'm too arrogant to hide my tattoo's or my Christmas/Chanukah tree.

But my family, while they may be a bit uncomfortable with my decisions, are not precluded from coming into my home and eating a meal because of them.
....yeah that's for another thread and another time. oooooooh boy.

good on ya for having come to a comfortable agreement about it though; I know people still struggling with their families about things like this and it's just not pretty.
I'd actually call it respect for my family and its history. There are people out there who hate you and me because of how we were born. Because of this, I feel it's important to embrace the identity. People have died because they would not reject or hide their Judaism. So to me, it's important to hold onto the identity, even if we have doubts about the religious ideals. JMO.
::sigh:: yeah I haven't quite figured out how to deal with the whole being born into a history thing yet. I still have knee-jerk protective reactions when I hear people being derrogatory; purposefully or not. And why shouldn't I? It's my family, my people, my history these jerks are talking about!
But why should I? I didn't choose this family, I didn't ASK to be born into this legacy.
But why shouldn't I? No one gets to choose their family.
You see how it might get confusing.

 

[mimzy]

Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2833820
I've been there, taking notes. I'm the nerdy, quiet guy in the corner who stares inappropriately at the elderly women.

omg, you NEED to meet my Aunt Sylvia. you would DIE. just DIE.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
http:///forum/post/2833835

omg, you NEED to meet my Aunt Sylvia. you would DIE. just DIE.

 

[mimzy]

Mimzy's Dad; "So, did you hear there was another suicide bombing near Gaza today."
Guests at Mimzy's table mumble in distress.
Aunt Sylvia; (in a high-pitched, nasal new-yorker voice) "You know, there's something I don't undahstand. Whyyy ah they sending out the young virile men to do these bombings?"
wide-eyed silence from the table.
Aunt Sylvia; "I mean think aboudit. Whyyy ahn't they just sending the old ladies and cansah patients to dowit?"
::facepalm::

 

[t316]

Mimzy and crimzy...
One (1) question: Do you believe that there is a higher power, above us, out there?
S.crew all the religions, the fanaticals, the church's passing the offering plate, parents, brothers & sisters, T316, Yearofthenick, and whoever/whatever has influenced you in the past, it's a yes or no question.

 

[mimzy]

Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/2833852
Mimzy and crimzy...
One (1) question: Do you believe that there is a higher power, above us, out there?
S.crew all the religions, the fanaticals, the church's passing the offering plate, parents, brothers & sisters, T316, Yearofthenick, and whoever/whatever has influenced you in the past, it's a yes or no question.
I honestly just don't know. that is my honest answer. I don't know. there could be. there could also not be. i have no idea. my heart doesn't pull me in either direction.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
http:///forum/post/2833848
Mimzy's Dad; "So, did you hear there was another suicide bombing near Gaza today."
Guests at Mimzy's table mumble in distress.
Aunt Sylvia; (in a high-pitched, nasal new-yorker voice) "You know, there's something I don't undahstand. Whyyy ah they sending out the young virile men to do these bombings?"
wide-eyed silence from the table.
Aunt Sylvia; "I mean think aboudit. Whyyy ahn't they just sending the old ladies and cansah patients to dowit?"
::facepalm::

She actually makes a decent point. She would have loved my late grandmother. She was an expert in every subject... would argue with the doctors about their diagnosis, would tell the pregnant females in my family that their child was a girl or a boy, just by looking at them. I swear that she knew EVERYTHING and you could not disagree with her.
Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/2833852
Mimzy and crimzy...
One (1) question: Do you believe that there is a higher power, above us, out there?
S.crew all the religions, the fanaticals, the church's passing the offering plate, parents, brothers & sisters, T316, Yearofthenick, and whoever/whatever has influenced you in the past, it's a yes or no question.
Yeppers.

 

[t316]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
http:///forum/post/2833854
I honestly just don't know. that is my honest answer. I don't know. there could be. there could also not be. i have no idea. my heart doesn't pull me in either direction.
Honest answer....Thank you.

 

[t316]

I see your response also crimzy. I'm not trying to trick either of you into anything, just trying to see where you are coming from. From previous posts, it sounds like you both have (or have had) religious beliefs, but for whatever reason, things are questionable.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/2833865
I see your response also crimzy. I'm not trying to trick either of you into anything, just trying to see where you are coming from. From previous posts, it sounds like you both have (or have had) religious beliefs, but for whatever reason, things are questionable.
Does a belief in g-d have to necessarily be a belief in an organized religion?

 

[t316]

Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2833868
Does a belief in g-d have to necessarily be a belief in an organized religion?
NO...NO...NO Forget about Christianity, Judiasm, and all the others out there. I just posed the question...Do YOU believe that there is a higher power out there, something that we can't physically see/hear/smell/touch, etc.

 

[mimzy]

Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2833868
Does a belief in g-d have to necessarily be a belief in an organized religion?
how does one extricate the two? if there is G-d, how does He communicate with us? if not through religion, then by what other means? or is He just the great watchmaker who created the world and then just let it do it's own thang?
if He DOES communicate with us through religion, then which one? And once we figure out which one (hahahahahahah good luck), then how do we find the purest parts, the truest sources of G-d's words within the morass of what that religion has become today? And once we think we've found that, how do we KNOW we are RIGHT?
it's a massive, unthinkable undertaking. And because G-d isn't here, speaking directly to us, we CAN. NEVER. KNOW.
that's my problem. we just can't KNOW.

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2833784
I disagree only because virtually every religion rejects the principle of "all men are created equal". Every religion has some concept of superiority, damnation, being chosen, etc. While some take this to violent extremes, the concept itself flies in the face of equality, which I believe would be an essential teaching, if g-d truly exists.
I have no idea where you are getting this. Honestly. Please name off at least a dozen religions, out of the thousands of religions out there, who say that there are clearly different levels or hierarchies of "men" as a foundational belief.
I can tell you one thing for certain - Christians believe that all men (and women) were created equal. Some are called into ministry, some are not. Yet everyone is still equal. A good comparison would be like me going to a tax guy to do my taxes. I can't do my own taxes successfully, which is why there's a tax guy I'm hiring to do it for me. That doesn't make him better than me. He just knows more about that area of life. It's the same with pastors. They choose to study the bible and share about it weekly to those who hear. Some pastors let it get to their heads, unfortunately, but that does not change the fact that yes, they are still equal to everyone else - from a biblical perspective.
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2833784
Historically, religious (virtuous) people have gone to church and then come home to their slaves.
Actually you're right there. But religious people also burned women who they thought were witches. A lot of evil and unspeakable things happened in our history, a fair amount of it having nothing to do with religion, although religion did play a part in history as a whole. If we were to follow your theory quoted above and apply it elsewhere, maybe we should remove the gov't from society today because they used to hang people or behead people for the simplest of crimes hundreds of years ago. This idea just doesn't have a standing,
Sorry crimzy. Everything in our history is guilty of barbaric acts. You shouldn't throw religion under the bus just because it had a share in the game.
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2833784
Religious people walk by the homeless and look at them with disdain.
This is really disappointing to read. The truth is that many of those who help the homeless are religious organizations, rooted from a church who felt a serious need to help them. Even certain catholic churches have regular soup kitchens running. I think this statement is totally invalid. Ever hear of Salvation Army? I wonder why in the world they would have included "Salvation" in their name. Yes, it's because they ARE a religious organization, committed to helping the poor, homeless, and less fortunate.
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2833784
Religious people argue that the less fortunate are fat, lazy, drug/alcohol addicts.
This one came out of left field. Not even sure what to say about that. But I've NEVER in my entire life heard a single sermon from a pastor or heard a single statement from a christian saying this. Where are you getting this man?? Christians believe that we are to help the less fortunate. Jesus was homeless. Jesus hung out with the lepers and prostitutes. Who are we to say he was wrong?
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2833784
Religious people are child molesters.
Great. I'm a religious person, so now I'm a child molester. Man this just keeps getting better and better.
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2833784
Religious people are unfaithful and/or selfish.
Actually I would partially agree with you there, because religious people do have an epidemic of selfishness. Again, I would disagree about ALL religious people being unfaithful.
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2833784
Religious people are actually some of the most judgmental people around.
Again with the general statement that everyone is this way. I would agree that a lot of people can become judgemental, but this post in it's entirety is just wrong. If these child molesting, drug-addict-hating, fat-hating, selfish, unfaithful, and judgemental people you're hanging out with are telling you they're religious, then they have no idea what religion is all about, because pretty much everything you said goes against what it means to be religious, most notably Christian.

 

[yearofthenick]

I'm admittedly about as holy-rolling as most people get (especially on this site, surprisingly, because you would never really be able to tell in the real world), but most of these things you've described I've never even thought about doing. Sure, I can be selfish sometimes, can't we all? And why is that such a bad thing coming from a religious person if you do it yourself as well? almost like you're upholding this flighty standard of religious people that no one can acheive.
What you really need to realize is that people are people. They choose to be religious but pretty much everyone sucks at it. I didn't know that signing on and saying you're a believer meant you would be constantly compared to a standard in society that simply does not exist in anyone. How unfortunate.

 

[mimzy]

Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2833902
I have no idea where you are getting this. Honestly. Please name off at least a dozen religions, out of the thousands of religions out there, who say that there are clearly different levels or hierarchies of "men" as a foundational belief.
I can tell you one thing for certain - Christians believe that all men (and women) were created equal. Some are called into ministry, some are not. Yet everyone is still equal.
I'm sorry Nick, but maybe you just haven't read the Bibles very thoroughly; gay people are called "abominations," tattoos are transgressions against G-d, Pagans are called Heathens - and this is not just in the Old Testament. The priestly sects are always lauded above the masses and there is always one sect or small group of people separated out to be more privileged and more righteous than the rest. That is true and simple fact.
Read. There is ALWAYS "other." Always.
And yes yes we know this exists in all aspects of humanity; it's simply human nature.... and that's my point. These religions, these bibles, they're just more human nature being human nature. It's not G-d. It's people being people. Being exclusionary and having that pack mentality. Fighting for power over one another. It's not Holy, its HUMAN.

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
http:///forum/post/2833918
I'm sorry Nick, but maybe you just haven't read the Bibles very thoroughly; gay people are called "abominations," tattoos are transgressions against G-d, Pagans are called Heathens - and this is not just in the Old Testament. The priestly sects are always lauded above the masses and there is always one sect or small group of people separated out to be more privileged and more righteous than the rest. That is true and simple fact.
Read. There is ALWAYS "other." Always.
And yes yes we know this exists in all aspects of humanity; it's simply human nature.... and that's my point. These religions, these bibles, they're just more human nature being human nature. It's not G-d. It's people being people. Being exclusionary and having that pack mentality. Fighting for power over one another. It's not Holy, its HUMAN.
Well, catholicism definitely has a hierarchy. The pope is a joke man, sorry. It's like he's as important as the messiah or something. That crap is just wrong.
You talk about gays and tattooed people in the OT, but people also kept slaves in the OT... and they were usually the same race or religious believers as the "master." This too is something we have progressed from as a society, thankfully.
And now we're on the verge of giving homsexuals equal rights, which actually I have no problem with. Homosexual opression is just wrong and counter-productive. I mean, my christian faith tells me to love the person and hate the sin. That's what I am called to do. This person might be gay, but that he's a person is what matters most. And this person needs equality. Period.
We in this society have definitely made a mess of religion, undeniably. Being in church my whole life, I too am questioning what God calls us to be and NOT to be - that is the question (no shakespeare pun intended).
Even though the bible was written by man, so has everything else we know about our history. Interesting that we are so ready to throw the bible out the window, but have no problem accepting every other aspect of history, much of which came from the same vein as the scrolls we call the bible. And there are vast amounts of information, each scroll eerily similar to the next, and these scrolls dwarf the amount of scrolls we have about a lot of the other stuff we unquestionably consider to be our history. This is why I believe the bible to be at the very least accurate to some degree, although agreeably not perfect, just like everything else in our history.
So as I look at the bible in this light, that's where I can formulate what we are and are not called to do. Discerning and understanding the bible is a daunting, tiring, basically impossible task, which is why so many religions have come from it... there are about a hundred different denominations in the Christian faith alone.
I concern myself with what matters most and don't really like getting wrapped up in the details. I think that's how God has called us to live... a simple faith. But again, this is just my take on it.

 

[mimzy]

Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2833930
Well, catholicism definitely has a hierarchy. The pope is a joke man, sorry. It's like he's as important as the messiah or something. That crap is just wrong.
You talk about gays and tattooed people in the OT, but people also kept slaves in the OT... and they were usually the same race or religious believers as the "master." This too is something we have progressed from as a society, thankfully.
And now we're on the verge of giving homsexuals equal rights, which actually I have no problem with. Homosexual opression is just wrong and counter-productive. I mean, my christian faith tells me to love the person and hate the sin. That's what I am called to do. This person might be gay, but that he's a person is what matters most. And this person needs equality. Period.
We in this society have definitely made a mess of religion, undeniably. Being in church my whole life, I too am questioning what God calls us to be and NOT to be - that is the question (no shakespeare pun intended).
Even though the bible was written by man, so has everything else we know about our history. Interesting that we are so ready to throw the bible out the window, but have no problem accepting every other aspect of history, much of which came from the same vein as the scrolls we call the bible. And there are vast amounts of information, each scroll eerily similar to the next, and these scrolls dwarf the amount of scrolls we have about a lot of the other stuff we unquestionably consider to be our history. This is why I believe the bible to be at the very least accurate to some degree, although agreeably not perfect, just like everything else in our history.
So as I look at the bible in this light, that's where I can formulate what we are and are not called to do. Discerning and understanding the bible is a daunting, tiring, basically impossible task, which is why so many religions have come from it... there are about a hundred different denominations in the Christian faith alone.
I concern myself with what matters most and don't really like getting wrapped up in the details. I think that's how God has called us to live... a simple faith. But again, this is just my take on it.
right but again, all of this is you picking and choosing and making your own interpretations; you're a good person. you're being inclusive and trying to extend your love to your community and your fellow human beings. but religion doesn't do this. it just doesn't. you are essentially making yourself a new religion. that's cool, if that's what you want to do, but you can't say that religion is inherently good...because it's just not.

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
http:///forum/post/2833936
right but again, all of this is you picking and choosing and making your own interpretations; you're a good person. you're being inclusive and trying to extend your love to your community and your fellow human beings. but religion doesn't do this. it just doesn't. you are essentially making yourself a new religion. that's cool, if that's what you want to do, but you can't say that religion is inherently good...because it's just not.
So which religion are we talking about now? and c'mon, can we get more specific about this stuff? We're talking about an entire world of people who believe in a deity when we say "religious" ... seriously, that's one of the biggest generalizations I've ever used. Wouldn't you agree? I mean we're talking ignorantly about something that includes the religious tribes in the deep heart of africa... we're talking about the 3 people that live in Siberia and pray to the holy Yeti. I'm trying to put into perspective the massive movement including the universal populous of "Those who believe in something" that we throw around when we say the word "religious" or "religion."
Having said all that, it's kind of hard to take this word "religion" and label it anything when we talk about it. Let's bring to the surface what we've been underlying in our rants to each other.
From what I understand, we're talking mainly about Judaism, Catholicism, and Christianity. Am I right in that assumption?
If so, then yes, we've made a big mess of religion, but I think when you go back to the roots of it all and analyze what it was supposed to be before we messed it up, I think it could be a really beautiful thing. I mean we're talking about equality, which we desperately need, and the bible upholds that as a standard for Christians. We're talking about the poor and less fortunate who need help, and there are a number of organizations that are rooted in faith, all across the board. The list could go on and on. I don't think religion is the culprit, and I think religion IS inherently good. It's what we've done to it that screws the whole thing up. This is a case where you don't blame the source, you blame the messenger.

 

[mimzy]

Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2833946
So which religion are we talking about now? and c'mon, can we get more specific about this stuff? We're talking about an entire world of people who believe in a deity when we say "religious" ... seriously, that's one of the biggest generalizations I've ever used. Wouldn't you agree? I mean we're talking ignorantly about something that includes the religious tribes in the deep heart of africa... we're talking about the 3 people that live in Siberia and pray to the holy Yeti. I'm trying to put into perspective the massive movement including the universal populous of "Those who believe in something" that we throw around when we say the word "religious" or "religion."
Having said all that, it's kind of hard to take this word "religion" and label it anything when we talk about it. Let's bring to the surface what we've been underlying in our rants to each other.
From what I understand, we're talking mainly about Judaism, Catholicism, and Christianity. Am I right in that assumption?
If so, then yes, we've made a big mess of religion, but I think when you go back to the roots of it all and analyze what it was supposed to be before we messed it up, I think it could be a really beautiful thing. I mean we're talking about equality, which we desperately need, and the bible upholds that as a standard for Christians. We're talking about the poor and less fortunate who need help, and there are a number of organizations that are rooted in faith, all across the board. The list could go on and on. I don't think religion is the culprit, and I think religion IS inherently good. It's what we've done to it that screws the whole thing up. This is a case where you don't blame the source, you blame the messenger.
i can't speak for anyone else but the religions im talking about are Judaism, Hinduism, Islam and Christianity; those are the religions about which I can speak with any level of education.
And yes, I am blaming the messenger. absolutely. i've said it myself a hundred times and I'll say it again if I have to. But until the Source comes to me personally and tells me He's out there, I'm Agnostic.