I wish OBAMA would wear an American Flag pin (at least)

suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2504641
. Today liberals tend to hate America, and are not proud of our country.
.
You know, I should really just blow this off, but all I can think is that I don't have a digital picture of my son. My only son. I have prints. But how can I show you how wonderful he was? Are there words to tell you?
Tell me, Oscar, what words could describe my son?
Do you have your son near?
I miss him, I treasure his memory. I know to some it is just a war, nameless faceless people dying. But, they all had mothers.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
A nameless, faceless person with a cartoon hero has given me his scorn. How do you show your patriotism, Mr Cartoon BeerGuy? Tell me you have a lapel pin and a yellow ribbon magnet?
How many real soldiers died for your war?
How have you shown heroism?
You are enlisted like my son did?
You are typing from your palm while you are in battle defending our freedoms?
You are able to find a hot spot, so you can bad mouth my sons mother?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2504025
Because of its racial insensitivity... The comparison has a long historical significance and he should have used better judgement.. There is nothing wrong with the comparison itself... but when you add in the historical context you know it is wrong... just like other words that by themselves are okay but when you relate them to people ... they have different interpretations.. The words you used above are based on his character...
So if I thought Obama acted like a monkey it would be OK to call him Mr. Chimp because I percieve that to be his character?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2504046
They all have a lifetime of experience... if Hilary were to win.. she would need Obama as her VP to win, otherwise I think it would go to McCain.. I don't like her politics and I am unsure if I would vote for her... What I don't get is ... she was a 1st lady... to me...this isn't experience in the way she would describe it... 2nd she used the popularity of her husband to win the Senate. I don't think she is a self made politician... which doesn't do anything for me ... yea he gave a speech.. but he has done a lot more and I respect the way he has worked to get to become a presidential candidate in a short time ... this is one of the reasons why I believe in his message... he is exactly what his message is.. I mean if you think about it if he can translate his life into the presidency ... I see a very bright future because against all odds he has succeeded up to this point and done things no one else would imagine.
The first lady experience isn't a presidential apprintence program but it isn't worthless, I do think it means every bit as much and probably more than serving in the state legislature.
Obama's record doesn't match his rhetoric. He is a far left liberal at a minimum. That isn't someone who reaches across party lines any more than Rick Santorum was on the right.
I think right now the race is McCain's to lose unless something remarkable happens in the Democrat campaign. The longer they go along beating each other up the less McCain has to which makes him look like the sweet and swell guy.
I don't see Oba and Hillary teaming up. I don't see Hillary accepting second fiddle to anybody. Obama would be nuts to go as Hillary's VP. Hillary is polarizing and will never change. Assuming she is elected that tag is automatically transfered to Obama. If she goes 8 years the country would really be ready for a change and he wouldn't be it. If he went back to the Senate and actually did work on some serious bipartisan legislation he would have to be seen as the front runner and a very strong candidate in 4 years should McCain win. If the unthinkable should happen and Hillary wins he would still be hard to beat in 8 years. I just cant see the upside to him taking the VP spot but he may cave to pressure from the party, we will see.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2504137
Africa is also thought of as having human significance because many believe this to be the "birthplace" if you will of man. Different places are significant to different people for various reasons....
“Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews.” - Jerusalem Countdown (revised edition, 2007, p. 114
During the same September 18, 2006, edition of National Public Radio's Fresh Air, Hagee also discussed Islam, stating that "those who live by the Qur'an have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews
On the September 18, 2006, edition of National Public Radio's Fresh Air, Hagee stated that Hurricane Katrina was an act of God, punishing New Orleans for "a level of sin that was offensive to God". He specifically referred to a "homosexual parade" that was held on the date the hurricane struck and that this was proof "of the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans
Various other degrading comments on the Catholic Church include: "the great whore" "false cult system" and "the apostate church" -Hagee has written about the Roman Catholic Church in his book Jerusalem Countdown:
As he calls himself a Christian, I assume Obama believes the Bible. The Bible makes it very clear the "Cradle of Civilization" was the Middle East, not Africa.
I do not have the book in front of me, I will check into that quote at the bookstore tomorrow. If true, Hagee is clearly historically wrong and clearly a defamer of the catholic church (Not a racist).
Are you saying the Koran doesn't call for death to members of the other religions?
The Bible teaches "the wages of sin is death".... According to the Bible all death is brought about by sin. Also, Biblically, the Bible teaches homosexuality is a sin. Was New Orleans any more "sinful" than any other city in the USA? I doubt it. "For all have sinned and fallen short fo the glory of God". From a Biblical standpoint does God judge and punish for sin? Yes.... So, in this particular case, your's and Obama's argument is with the Bible, not Hagee. If you want to argue the validity of Scripture we can do that. You cannot, however, condemm a Christian Pastor for preaching what the Bible teaches and still call yourself a Christian. That just doesn't work. That might be a great question to ask Senator Obama: "As a Christian, do you accept Scripture as the Word of God?"
As I said, I'll browse through Hagee's book in the next day or two. If he has said those things I will concede he is Anti-Catholic. I will also concede his end times theology is goofy. I will further concede that McCain should back away from him... I will also point out, McCain's home church and Pastor never gave Hagee a Lifetime Achievement award...
 
mfp1016

mfp1016

Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2504618
Ok. JM, I must admit, I did say I would not return to your site. But, I must say, I find this site very intriguing. Like I said, I can blow off the routine poster, for all I know these guys are on crack or living in a Limbaugh world. You and I both know there are freaks everywhere. Really, my street was closed a few days ago because some freak is dying in Vegas (feel free to google search >Riverton-Utah-Ricin).
But, I cannot figure out the business motive behind your alienation of me and all the other "liberals". I do feel other sites want drama. It increases their hit count so their sponsors feel many are seeing their ads. So, they get money to pay their contributors (Me! I cannot believe I get paid to write about a hobby I love! Really,I love this stuff so I wrote like 4 pages here for free!). But, I do not see ads here. All I see is a home page begging me to buy stuff.
Weird thing is, I was going to try them!
I am actually a consumer SWF wants, I think. I love newbies, but they buy stuff for a bit, then they quit. The dedicated, obsessed hobbyists are the ones SWF wants to attract, IMO. I buy crap every month. I have a few choices so why would I choose SWF?
That is why I cannot figure out why you would bait me, alienate me and try to call me out. My answer to your question you feel is unacceptable. I feel your answer about America giving handouts is unacceptable. But, I respected your opinion (nowhere near fact). I feel the same respect should be allotted to me.
So, your site has chosen to cater to the right wing consumer? This just seems weird, because I can't see why you can't have all consumers. You know your site, and it must be working for you.
I know you can't answer this, because you "are a volunteer" that just hangs out here with the moderator button ready at your discretion.
But, if you are a sales director at SWF, I just made my monthly order to ***********. This hobby is sooooo expensive! I had to get CA, MgSo4, new bulbs this month. Next month: I'm going Vortex with my tax stimulus!

So you're saying you're not adult enough to delineate between a specifically off-topic and notably controversial forum and the people nice enough to pay for bandwidth upon which it is hosted?
IMHO its pretty childish to hock on about how you're not going to be spending money at SWF because of personal, political beliefs. Also, shouldn't your post be deleted because of its explicit use and mention of a competitor?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2504316
I don't think remaining in Iraq will solve the problem of al Qaeda and terrorism. ......
Well, first off, according to Senator Obama last week Al Qaeda is not in Iraq, but if they ever set up a base there he will send troops back to get them...

Btw, we are "seeking out" terrorists all over the world... I'm not even going to bother to list all of the countries I know of where we are hunting terrorists. And I get my information just from watching and reading the news. Obviously we're doing a lot more the news will never report. So, to say Obama will do more is flat out wrong.
Oh ,and btw, Obama will cut military spending: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE in part he says:
"I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems. I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems".
Good to know Obama's not a big fan of R&D for our soldiers. Heck, we could probably save a lot of money if we freakin wore red wool trenchcoats and fought in columms while we fired muskets. Maybe get crazy and buy a couple of horses... Ooh, I know... 3 words "Bow and arrows!" Ya, that's the way to win the war on terror; Don't bother to develop technology. Sure China is already weaponizing space, and sure our missile defense system could make Chinese and Soviet ICBM's obsolete, but I bet negotiating will work better...
Name a single battle where one side "pulled out" of the battlefield and won???? OF COURSE PULLING OUT AND LEAVING THE ENEMY THERE IS DEFEAT! Good Heavens Rylan, I really want to play a game that involves strategy with you; Preferably a game where we can wager HUGE sums of money.
Once again you post fallacies regarding the Iraqi Government. Please educate yourself more fully on what is going on there before you post. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but we have oposition in our own government... Do you expect the Iraqi's newly formed Democracy to be better than our own? You do realize the Iraqi Parliament just passed a budget, right?
At some point we do need to leave. That said, The Korean War was in the 1950's. We still have troops there that Democratic Presidents haven't withdrawn, so I'd say it's safe to say we can keep troops in Iraq for at least 50 years before the Democrats talking point of "we can't stay forever" becomes non-hypocritical.
Hmm... top leaders of Al Qeada, need to hunt them down. Great idea, you mean like:
*40 top Al-Qaeda terrorists were captured or killed in Iraq in November 2007. Four were senior-level Emirs. Nine were Emirs or cell leaders involved in improvised-explosive devices. Eight were foreign terrorist facilitators. Six were involved in media and propaganda cells. And the remaining 13 were facilitators of logistics, communications, and finances... Abu Maysara was among them. http://www.mnf-iraq.com/
*top Mosul-based al-Qaeda leader
*U.S. Forces detained an Al Qaeda in Iraq suspected cell leader (yesterday)
*al Qaeda in Iraq leader detained in Doura (Monday)*U.S. Special Forces detain criminal leader, two cell members in separate operations (Baghdad) (Last Friday)*Coalition forces in recent days have killed or captured three terrorist leaders (LAst Thurseday)*U.S. troops killed a senior al Qaeda in Iraq intelligence leader (Abu Karrar) responsible for deadly attacks in Baghdad on Feb. 17
*al Qaeda in Iraq leader, Abu Sayf apprehended Feb 16
Etc. http://www.mnf-iraq.com/
Just curious, but how many leaders a week should we be capturing or killing for this to be successful? Al Qaeda attacked us how many times in the
1990's? How many Al Qaeda were we able to track down and kill then????
Seems to me, 50 Al Qaeda leaders in 2 weeks is decent work.
Ya, Al Qaeda is recruiting and attacking us because we are in Iraq. I forget, where were we on September 11th, 2001 that pissed them off? We weren't in Iraq then, right? Where were we in 1998 when they attacked our Embassies in Africa that pissed them off? Where were we in 1992 when they attempted to attack US Servicemen in Yemen that pissed them off? How about the failed attacks in Jordan in 1999? How about when they attacked us in 2000 by blowing a freakin hole in the side of the USS Cole and killing 17 sailors?
I sure count a lot of attacks against us by Al Qaeda before we ever went into Iraq. Sure doesn't seem like they were having a hard time recruiting either...
*
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2504618
Ok. JM, I must admit, I did say I would not return to your site. But, I must say, I find this site very intriguing. Like I said, I can blow off the routine poster, for all I know these guys are on crack or living in a Limbaugh world. You and I both know there are freaks everywhere. Really, my street was closed a few days ago because some freak is dying in Vegas (feel free to google search >Riverton-Utah-Ricin).
But, I cannot figure out the business motive behind your alienation of me and all the other "liberals"....
Welcome back. You are a knowledgable hobbyist and it would be a shame to lose you.
Please note this is not my site, by any stretch. I am just a volunteer. As Mods we keep the politics in "The Aquarium". On the rest of the forums you will find only discussions of SWF.
I'm not in any way trying to alienate any poster of any belief. You made the comment of "swift boating" so I asked you to provide a post to back up your comment. That's not alienating you, it's trying to have a discussion.
The Aquarium is for discussing. If anyone had an agenda to alienate a particular viewpoint we would arbitrarily delete or lock posts. We do not...
I absolutely value your opinion, but I will openly disagree with posts and I will openly call for facts to back up opinions in discussion threads. I encourage others to do the same, on both sides. I think you will see I often posts links to credible sites backing up the facts I post for just such reason.
Suzy, honestly, your posts are welcome in every section of the forums. In "The Aquarium" however, people will challenge each other's posts. As long as there is no attacking each other, foul language, etc. we monitor threads and let people discuss whatever they want (provided it is PG rated).
I'm sorry that you took my posts to appear to be attacking you; They were not. They were, however, attacking the position that Obama was being "swift boated".
In the future, feel free to post saying "Hey, I took offense to that". I'll clarify if my remarks need to be clarified, delete if it needs to be delelted (though I've never deleted a post of mine before. I really do think before I hit the submit button). In another weeks or so your account will be old enough to have the Private Message feature enabled. At that point feel free to pm me if you see a post that you think is offensive. As there are hundreds of posts here each day we count on forum members to help us police the site.
That said, the portion of your post that mentioned a competitor was deleted. Out of respect for Admin and SWF we do not allow competitor sites, forums, etc. to be posted.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I don't know enough about Hagee to know what he has said but I always become suspecious when someone is quoted using 3 or 4 word snippets as is being done with Hagee. His so-call flip remarks about slavery were the mention of a charitable slave

[hr]
in 1996. Sorry but those kind of thing have deen used to raise money for charities for years. Deal with it. Funny how that isn't mentioned in the attacks on Hagee. Just his "flip remarks" about slavery. I suspect the same distortions have been used on the Catholic Church thing.
However, assume Hagee said everything as claimed about the catholic church. Hagee is attacking an institution. Right or wrong that pales in comparison to Farrakhans attacks on people based on their race.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2504667
You know, I should really just blow this off, but all I can think is that I don't have a digital picture of my son. My only son. I have prints. But how can I show you how wonderful he was? Are there words to tell you? ....
Truely sorry for your loss. although I'm sure that may not sound sincere. Trust me it is.
Many of the posters on this thread are serving or have served. I'm waiting on SC to go to Baghdad myself. So yes, many here know of your son's bravery first hand.
Suzy, no war is ever worth the life of a son to his mother. Unfortunately, what many of us on the "wrong side" (as I'm sure you perceive us) believe is that we didn't start this war. Al Qaeda hates me and you because we are Americans. Saddam was a madman who was warned for 12+ years to comply with the Inspectors...
I know you don't see it Suzy, and you might never see it, but what I type here is my opinion on the best way to win the war that's been thrust upon us. As I said, I don't ever believe we can ever gain enough "victory" to make up for your loss, but I do believe someday millions of Afghan and Iraqi mothers will watch their children play in the streets, go to schools, grow up and have kids of their own; And I believe they will thank mother's like you for helping to make it possible.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2504678
A nameless, faceless person with a cartoon hero has given me his scorn. How do you show your patriotism, Mr Cartoon BeerGuy? Tell me you have a lapel pin and a yellow ribbon magnet?
How many real soldiers died for your war?
How have you shown heroism?
You are enlisted like my son did?
You are typing from your palm while you are in battle defending our freedoms?
You are able to find a hot spot, so you can bad mouth my sons mother?

Can't believe I missed this....
I don't have a war
Guess you need to define "heroism". Guess I talked a guy out of committing suicide years ago (at least he gives me credit for it), does that count? Never really been placed in a position to pull someone from a burning building.
I am not enlisted but my son lives in Q-west
***
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2504618
Ok. JM, I must admit, I did say I would not return to your site. But, I must say, I find this site very intriguing. Like I said, I can blow off the routine poster, for all I know these guys are on crack or living in a Limbaugh world. You and I both know there are freaks everywhere. Really, my street was closed a few days ago because some freak is dying in Vegas (feel free to google search >Riverton-Utah-Ricin).
But, I cannot figure out the business motive behind your alienation of me and all the other "liberals". I do feel other sites want drama. It increases their hit count so their sponsors feel many are seeing their ads. So, they get money to pay their contributors (Me! I cannot believe I get paid to write about a hobby I love! Really,I love this stuff so I wrote like 4 pages here for free!). But, I do not see ads here. All I see is a home page begging me to buy stuff.
Weird thing is, I was going to try them!
I am actually a consumer SWF wants, I think. I love newbies, but they buy stuff for a bit, then they quit. The dedicated, obsessed hobbyists are the ones SWF wants to attract, IMO. I buy crap every month. I have a few choices so why would I choose SWF?
That is why I cannot figure out why you would bait me, alienate me and try to call me out. My answer to your question you feel is unacceptable. I feel your answer about America giving handouts is unacceptable. But, I respected your opinion (nowhere near fact). I feel the same respect should be allotted to me.
So, your site has chosen to cater to the right wing consumer? This just seems weird, because I can't see why you can't have all consumers. You know your site, and it must be working for you.
I know you can't answer this, because you "are a volunteer" that just hangs out here with the moderator button ready at your discretion.
***
Suzy, I really can't understand your outrage. Journyman is pretty fair. He isn't employed by swf.com. And someone has to make sure people play nice especially in these political threads. I'm not sure why you would think this site caters to right wing consumers? This is just the "aquarium" we will argue about stuff, (got to have something to do while you're at work) But this is just fun and games, these discussions go on all the time and aren't to be taken as a personal attack, because they aren't.
Journeyman has raised an issue based argument against this guy running for prez. What is wrong with that. Everybody has a different value system regarding what is important to him or her. For some, they have a serious hang up with Obama's association with a church with questionable ties. Others don't have this problem, for instance my main hangup with obama is his economic agenda.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
I think you guys are missing the arugment about Hagee. Hagee isn't McCains pastor, heck hagee isn't even a pastor. In "christian" circles they view the relationship between the church member is in willing submitting himself to the spiritual guidence of the pastor. Much like the relationship between the father and son, except you get to choose the father. The next step is that obama has submitted himself to the teaching of someone who willingly honors a racist. Thus the issue. Hopefully that helps some non-church people understand the hang up.
Hagee is a nut, but he is does has some base for what he said, *does not reflect my views* but most protestant circles will define a cult as a religion that has one leader who has the power to grant entrance to whatever they call "heaven." Traditionally the Catholic church preached that. So he then equates that to a cult. Now I don't really agree with that but that is a theological question. And not really important in the grand sceme of things.
Hagee is small time, I'm sure we could find some other small time hack that has shared a stage with obama that can offer some other juicy website debates. Not that I'm even going to bother trying to find some.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2504667
You know, I should really just blow this off, but all I can think is that I don't have a digital picture of my son. My only son. I have prints. But how can I show you how wonderful he was? Are there words to tell you?
Tell me, Oscar, what words could describe my son?
Do you have your son near?
I miss him, I treasure his memory. I know to some it is just a war, nameless faceless people dying. But, they all had mothers.
I am truely sorry for your loss, I have one cousin over there now (I'm mexican we are all close) he flies blackhawks, My other cousin a special forces marine sniper just got back both have had multiple tours in Iraq and in other regions of the world. Our family is increadably proud of them.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2504667
You know, I should really just blow this off, but all I can think is that I don't have a digital picture of my son. My only son. I have prints. But how can I show you how wonderful he was? Are there words to tell you?
Tell me, Oscar, what words could describe my son?
Do you have your son near?
I miss him, I treasure his memory. I know to some it is just a war, nameless faceless people dying. But, they all had mothers.

Your son is like this:

To me they are all like this:

Can anyone else name all 6 men in this picture without looking them up? What happened to them?
As to what to say, a humble " Thank You". The same "Thank you" I gave to a woman who left her husband in Viet Nam. The same thanks I said to that Aviator's daughter when they presented her his dog tags 30+ years later. The same "thank you" I gave them as they exited the same type of plane their husband and father was killed in fighting for his country.

I am an emergency physician and a parent. Thankfully I have not lost a child, but I have held hands with and said words that were not heard to more parents that lost children than I would like.
I call your son hero, and to me they are not nameless, they are United States Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines. They are all heroes. Our country is poorer for their loss. They are the best of us. I will fight so that they are remembered, and do not die in vain.
You do not know me, and I do not know you, but I do my part flying from airshow to airshow across the midwest to honor those who have fallen and served. That is my "thank you " to them all.
I think the Congresswoman was Barbara Lee, but I am still looking for good links.
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2504841
As he calls himself a Christian, I assume Obama believes the Bible. The Bible makes it very clear the "Cradle of Civilization" was the Middle East, not Africa.
I do not have the book in front of me, I will check into that quote at the bookstore tomorrow. If true, Hagee is clearly historically wrong and clearly a defamer of the catholic church (Not a racist).
Are you saying the Koran doesn't call for death to members of the other religions?
The Bible teaches "the wages of sin is death".... According to the Bible all death is brought about by sin. Also, Biblically, the Bible teaches homosexuality is a sin. Was New Orleans any more "sinful" than any other city in the USA? I doubt it. "For all have sinned and fallen short fo the glory of God". From a Biblical standpoint does God judge and punish for sin? Yes.... So, in this particular case, your's and Obama's argument is with the Bible, not Hagee. If you want to argue the validity of Scripture we can do that. You cannot, however, condemm a Christian Pastor for preaching what the Bible teaches and still call yourself a Christian. That just doesn't work. That might be a great question to ask Senator Obama: "As a Christian, do you accept Scripture as the Word of God?"
As I said, I'll browse through Hagee's book in the next day or two. If he has said those things I will concede he is Anti-Catholic. I will also concede his end times theology is goofy. I will further concede that McCain should back away from him... I will also point out, McCain's home church and Pastor never gave Hagee a Lifetime Achievement award...
Are you serious? I am a Christian... but I don't hate homosexuals... New Orleans is not some hotbed for this... This argument by Hagee is ridiculous... if this was a dilberate "act of God" for immoral behavior there are a lot of worse places He could have raged his vengence on. Las Vegas, New York, Miami, L.A, S.F,D.C and so on. The Hurricane as far as I know did little damage to the French Qtr compared to other parts... McCain sought this guys endorsement... Obama did not... and Obama isn't arguing or has he made a statement about this... Africa was considered (northern portions) the Middle East.
The fact of the matter is that black people consider Africa their native land and I see nothing wrong with having some sort of commitment to the improving the lives of people who live there. ...its simply missionary work.
My last point is a person that hates someone because of race or religion or any other characteristic is in the same category.
 
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