I wish OBAMA would wear an American Flag pin (at least)

[zman1]

P.S... Another member of the Arab Leauge had a house bombed by us to kill AQ targets as per the News reports YESTERDAY. Somalia, been there, done that. Are they in Sudan? Go down the list and look for places we have suffered attacks. A big number of then are bad players.
Egypt[2]
Iraq[3]
Jordan[4]b
Lebanon[5]
Saudi Arabia[6]
Syria[7] March 22, 1945a
Yemen May 5, 1945
Libya March 28, 1953c
Sudan January 19, 1956
Moroccod
Tunisia October 1, 1958
Kuwait July 20, 1961
Algeria August 16, 1962
UAE June 12, 1972
Bahrain
Qatar September 11, 1971
Oman September 29, 1971
Mauritania November 26, 1973
Somalia February 14, 1974
Palestine[8]e September 9, 1976
Djibouti April 9, 1977
Comoros November 20, 1993
Eritrea observer since 2003[9]
Venezuela observer since 2006[10][11]
India observer since 2007[12

 

[mfp1016]

China has had its eye on Taiwan forever, and always will. If you ask a mainlander (Cantonese, Mandarin) if Taiwan is part of China they will say yes.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by mfp1016
http:///forum/post/2502448
China has had its eye on Taiwan forever, and always will. If you ask a mainlander (Cantonese, Mandarin) if Taiwan is part of China they will say yes.
And If you ask the Serbs about the breakaway of Kosovo you find the same answer.

USAToday
Nationalists attacked the (OUR) embassies after a rally to vent their anger over Western recognition of the independence of Kosovo — Serbia's cherished medieval heartland

 

[1journeyman]

Apos, you're missing the point. I'm not a fan of Hagee. I said that, literally, the first post where he was mentioned. All I said was that he was, to the best of my limited knowledge, not a racist. I have yet to see a single quote from him posted that proves otherwise. As I said, I'm more than willing to concede the point IF he has in fact said otherwise.Just post a quote by him... That's all I'm asking for
I didn't bring Hagee up to begin with. I just was drawing a distinction between racism and other forms of "hate". Neither is good, and I certainly am not justifying either one. As I clearly stated, the fact alone that Hagee is an "End Times" pastor makes me ignore him. Jesus said clearly in the Gospels of Matthew (chpt 24?) and Mark Chapter 13 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father..." The fact that a pastor would try to preach about something that not even the Son knows all of the details about is foolish to me.

I don't know Hagee. I don't listen to his sermons, I never see him on the news holding rallies condeming the White Man, the Black Man, or the Green Man for that matter... If i were to see him, I would change the channel, just as I do with Farakhan. Hagee because theologically I disagree with him. Farakhan because I'm not a "white devil".
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2502193
Someday you'll realize that childish appellations say far more about yourself than your intended target.
Got no problem telling you I had to look up the definition of "appellation". Now that I understand what you were saying, I'd argue I'm not guilty of that. I'm a Biology Major. I put things into their proper categories by nature. Hagee's comments, so far, are not racist. Therefore I refuse to put him into that category. If the category was "hateful and venomous jerks" we could throw him right in, based on what I have heard.
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2502193
You can try to wrap that in theology all you want: it's still working towards the hoped for destruction of Israel.
Now this I will argue.
The Bible teaches multiple times of the destruction of Israel. The OT prophets warned of the coming destruction; First the Northern Kingdom to the Assyrians, and later the Southern Kingdom to the Babylonians. Jesus also foretold of the destruction of the temple, fulfilled in 70AD when Rome squashed a rebellion in Jerusalem, sacked the temple, and tore it down.
You can't blame anyone for what the Bible apparently teaches. That said, as there is a whole lot of worldwide suffering and death before that comes about you'll find few people "hoping for the destruction of Israel". I'd love to see a quote from Hagee or any other "mainstream" preacher professing to hope for the destruction of Israel. Please note, hoping for and stating it is going to happen are two different things. I can say "we're all going to grow old". That doesn't mean I am hoping for it.
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2502193
And let's not lose focus of the fact that Obama never sought support, never supported, and has never done anything other than condemn Mr. F: only by playing six degrees of separation has anyone tried to tar Obama with views he clearly doesn't share. McCain, on the other hand, actively sought the endorsement of and stood on the same stage as Hagee: a man who 8 years ago he was classifying as an agent of intolerance. Apparently such agents are now too important to be left out of his campaign this time around. What a maverick!
I never said he asked for the endorsement. Please read the thread to see how this came about. The issue of Obumbus's church is a serious one to many of us. The fact that the church gave an award to Farrakhan is an issue. That's not "six degrees of seperation" it's ONE Degree. As a member of the church, Obumbus shares in the actions of the church (from a Protestant Biblical interpretation).
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2502193
Nothing about that is an issue. If someone feels that a certain act has become too rote and pc to be a meaningful expression in their case, or has ceased to express their actual patriotism, what's the problem with that, exactly?
Again... Obombus brought this up. Had he just quit wearing a pin no big deal. Obama said, however that he quit wearing the lapel pin because it had become a substitute for true patriotism. Without parsing his words, by default he stated that those who wore pins were therefore unpatriotic. THAT is where the issue lies...
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2502193
This was simply Fox News' "boldly distorted things we can try to get couch potatoes so outraged about that they spill their cheetoes" of the week one week.
(Insert canned response to fans of the left wing, no-fact-checking, biased beyond all hope of telling the truth media here)

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2501808
I wish I could believe you were in the least bit sincere...
I love how all the folks on Fox that are whining about this non-issue don't have flag pins on themselves: it's just that phony of an issue.
The whole issue was caused by the way Obama handled this. I think it was a deliberate move on his part to draw in press coverage and pander to the left.. I watch Fox everyday, I really havent seen it mention since the initial story broke.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2502253
You don't have to post the entire speech, but I think it is important to post the quote in context to the rest of the statement. For example I could post
you saying
" I'm sure there were a lot of poor European businessmen that became wealthy and powerful using the slave trade in the 1600's"
which without proper context, your statements could be misinterpreted.
Now, moving back to the endorsement... Farrakhan never said he endorsed Obama... he said he was a good man or something like that... However, McCain sought the endorsement of Hagee.. This is a major difference.. And when asked about Hagee's statements... he did not "denounce and reject" as suggested that Obama needed to do. So my point is that you are biased to the republican party which is fine, but the same standards should apply when criticizing the candidates. I don't think it matters what type of discrimination you choose to embrace, its all wrong regardless of what it is based on. (religion, race, gender, orientation, etc)
Tell ya what Rylan... Why don't you post as much of his comment as you feel is neccessary justifying how "Hitler was a good man". Take all the posts you need....
You're trying to change the issue Rylan. Barack's Pastor, in 2007, gave Farrakhan a "Lifetime Achievement" award. THAT is the issue we have with Obombus. That he is the member of a "Christian" church that gives a lifetime achievement award to a racist and radical militant muslim (he calls Hezbollah freedom fighters...

)

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2502003
Just one? Senator Obama is not patriotic because he does not wear a symbol on his lapel. That is a lie.
I defy you to treat a US senator with respect. No matter what you think about him, he is still a US senator. Give respect to his office. That is what a true patriotic and mature person does. Debate his qualities, or lack there of, without disrespecting my country, please.
You mean the same way the left has treated the President the last 7 years? A racial slur could be used and that wouldn't be any worse than the things that Bush has been called. This is the whole reason I had half heartedly hopped McCain would win early on. I thought that might tone the rhetoric from both sides down a bit.

 

[apos]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2502536
Apos, you're missing the point. I'm not a fan of Hagee.
I didn't say you were. I said that "theology" is not an out from anything, and was pointless to bring up. Hagee treats Jews as a race, and a race which he speaks about having a particular sort of history and just desserts: basically that they earned their persecution (including, I assume, the holocaust) because of their non-belief in his ideology. Same as with Katrina.
Got no problem telling you I had to look up the definition of "appellation". Now that I understand what you were saying, I'd argue I'm not guilty of that. I'm a Biology Major. I put things into their proper categories by nature.
Cute, but no. Calling Obama Osama or Obumbus is not proper taxonomy.
It is, however, a glaring red flag for anyone trying to see if you are being rational or not.
You can't blame anyone for what the Bible apparently teaches.
Sure I can: if they go along with the idea, like the idea, believe that it's good, then there zero difference between that and people simply promoting hateful ideas and hopes period. Hiding behind the "well the Bible says it" provides no protection from criticism in my book.
I never said he asked for the endorsement. Please read the thread to see how this came about. The issue of Obumbus's church is a serious one to many of us. The fact that the church gave an award to Farrakhan is an issue. That's not "six degrees of seperation" it's ONE Degree. As a member of the church, Obumbus shares in the actions of the church (from a Protestant Biblical interpretation).
Well, in most churches, pastors are not Gods, and can be wrong and disagreed with, without chucking your entire church into the garbage. Plenty of Catholics think the Pope is all wet on this or that, which doesn't stop them from being Catholics.
Again... Obombus brought this up. Had he just quit wearing a pin no big deal. Obama said, however that he quit wearing the lapel pin because it had become a substitute for true patriotism. Without parsing his words, by default he stated that those who wore pins were therefore unpatriotic. THAT is where the issue lies...
But you are parsing the words: pretending otherwise is again just special pleading.
And frankly, I think after seeing how many people obsessed about the pin issue, they've in doing so revealed how little they really value or understand patriotism. It's just a gotcha game to them, apparently.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2502283
Here are some other remarks... I haven't listened to his sermon...it may be hard to find

Democrats quoted Hagee as saying the Catholic Church conspired with Nazis against the Jews and that Hurricane Katrina was God's retribution for homosexual sin, and they recited his demeaning comments about women and flip remarks about slavery
Just go to youtube and you will see why a endorsement by him is bad. Too much stuff to list
I'm going to need an actual quote Rylan. The kind I routinely provide for you, along with a reputable source. A Google search of the hot words here quotes from Hagee's book that Hitler was a catholic who persecuted Jews while the catholic church did nothing.
Hagee is wrong to call Hitler a Catholic. That, imho, is like calling anyone who walks into a church a "Christian".
Hagee does bring up a sad but true reality, however. The Catholic Church was officially very quiet during WW2. This was acknowledged, and apoligized for, by the Catholic Church in 1998.
Now, in the defense of the Catholic Church, there were a lot of Protestant Churches that failed to do anything either. Some even supported Hitler and the Nazi Party.
That said, why is this an issue? Did McCain's pastor and mentor give a lifetime achievement award to Hagee?

 

[oscardeuce]

"Now I'm not proud of Hitler's evil toward Jewish people, but that's a matter of record. He rose Germany up from nothing"
Yup, he killed himself ( took the easy way out rather than be captured and face the music), left the country divided, and the greatest minds in Germany left for the USA and USSR.
Yes, Hitler did alot for Germany.
Hitler was also a strategic and tactical idiot( possibly due to medical conditions and addictions).

 

[reefraff]

Why don't you post up what Hagee's "Flip remarks about slavery" were?
I have heard the man's name before but really knew nothing of him. Did a little research, found out what he really said on issues. Your first clue to dig deeper should have been "Democrats quoted Hagee as saying..."

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2502575
I didn't say you were. I said that "theology" is not an out from anything, and was pointless to bring up. Hagee treats Jews as a race, and a race which he speaks about having a particular sort of history and just desserts: basically that they earned their persecution (including, I assume, the holocaust) because of their non-belief in his ideology. Same as with Katrina.
Ok, we're closer to understanding each other. I was not using theology as an excuse. I was simply defining the issue. Once again, for hte record, I believe Hagee's theology is wrong.
Hagee, I suspect, bases the persecution of the Jews on Matthew chpt 27 when Pilate declared he found no reason to crucify Christ and "All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!"
Now, again, I personally feel this is bad theology. I have personal beliefs as to why Christ died. The Bible also is clear that A. Jesus could have removed Himself from the cross had He chose too. B. Legions of Angels in Heaven awaited the signal from God to remove Christ from the cross. The Jewish people, Biblically, from Genesis to Revelation have a special place in God's love (again, Biblically). That said, yelling out "crucify him" in reference to the Son of God and saying "let His blood be on us and our children" probably wasn't the wisest thing to do.
Make no mistake as to my position, however. The Nazi's are responsible for hte Holocaust. no one else...
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2502575
Cute, but no. Calling Obama Osama or Obumbus is not proper taxonomy.
It is, however, a glaring red flag for anyone trying to see if you are being rational or not.
You're getting paranoid... I was actually referring to Osama Bin laden.

I was saying many of his hate filled rants against the "zionists" are "theological".
I call Obama Obombus after a radio caller I heard last week in Dallas. He said that's what the terrorists are going to do to us if Obama withdraws from Iraq O-Bomb-Us... Sadly, I concur.
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2502575
Sure I can: if they go along with the idea, like the idea, believe that it's good, then there zero difference between that and people simply promoting hateful ideas and hopes period. Hiding behind the "well the Bible says it" provides no protection from criticism in my book.
Here we will disagree. I believe the Bible is the inspired, Holy, unalterable Word of God.
As I said, I can read a text book on cancer, then go tell a cancer patient they are dying of cancer. Does it mean I want them to die, that I am hoping for them to die because I told them what the book told me? Of course not. Hagee didn't write Revelation; Therefore I can't blame him for what it says.
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2502575
Well, in most churches, pastors are not Gods, and can be wrong and disagreed with, without chucking your entire church into the garbage. Plenty of Catholics think the Pope is all wet on this or that, which doesn't stop them from being Catholics.
Comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare Protestant churches with "the church" of the Catholics. The differences are too great for this thread, but suffice to say a Protestant can certainly find another church down the street if their pastor gives an award to a racist, militant, nutcase.
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2502575
But you are parsing the words: pretending otherwise is again just special pleading.
Again, disagree. If you say you quit doing something, that other people are still doing, because it has replaced "true patriotism", then by default you are saying those that don't quit are still unpatriotic.
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2502575
And frankly, I think after seeing how many people obsessed about the pin issue, they've in doing so revealed how little they really value or understand patriotism. It's just a gotcha game to them, apparently.
I cant' speak for "all of the people" you refer to. For me, it wasn't about the pin, it was about what he said regarding it.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2502627
Why don't you post up what Hagee's "Flip remarks about slavery" were?
I have heard the man's name before but really knew nothing of him. Did a little research, found out what he really said on issues. Your first clue to dig deeper should have been "Democrats quoted Hagee as saying..."
Quinns' Law #2
If you want to know what liberals are up to, pay attention to what they accuse the conservatives of.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2502421
I want the China free trade deal renegotiated... I have said it before, it's wrong to send American's Wealth to Communist China (PRC) and grow it's economy. ...
Surprisngly, you and I will almost agree on this one. I believe we are in a Cold War with China, yet we blindly ignore the issue. China did some mild economic reforms and we gave them a pass on actually still being Communist and being our sworn enemies... We need to start treating them like the enemy.
Now, take this to the next step.. If we abandon the people of Iraq do you think China will be more apt or less apt to invade Taiwan?

 

[reefraff]

It looks like Oba is in trouble. The media seems to want to drag this race out to the bitter end.
Hillary Clinton threw him under the bus yesterday.
Imagine a video clip this fall of Hillary saying "I have a lifetime of experience, Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience. Barrak Obama gave a speech"

I cannot believe she said that.

 

[suzy]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2502090
Respect is earned, no inherited with a mantle of office. He's not even my Senator. I respect the Senate, I do not respect all of the Senators. Heck, Obombus's position of partial birth abortion alone prevents me from ever respecting him in any manner.

Patriotic Americans respect the office. A person who is elected by the majority of his consistuents and is a UNITED STATES SENATOR deserves the respect of his fellow Americans. You are free to disagree with his positions, and free speech allows you to say whatever you like. If you choose to post cutesy names for a US Senator, go for it.
Really, I can see a kid with a cartoon for an avatar calling someone a towel head. But, I cannot see that racist comment posted and then see that person is not banned. The standards here are revolting.
Plus, to have a moderator not only condone others degrading half the population but to participate yourself seems odd to me. I know I will never buy anything from this site, let alone ever post here again. How many other potential customers have you lost? 50% of the population are left leaning. Seems like an interesting business tactic.
I am curious what cutesy names you call Congressman Foley and Senator Craig. But, I will never know. I will never click this site again.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2502714
Patriotic Americans respect the office. A person who is elected by the majority of his consistuents and is a UNITED STATES SENATOR deserves the respect of his fellow Americans. You are free to disagree with his positions, and free speech allows you to say whatever you like. If you choose to post cutesy names for a US Senator, go for it.
Really, I can see a kid with a cartoon for an avatar calling someone a towel head. But, I cannot see that racist comment posted and then see that person is not banned. The standards here are revolting.
Plus, to have a moderator not only condone others degrading half the population but to participate yourself seems odd to me. I know I will never buy anything from this site, let alone ever post here again. How many other potential customers have you lost? 50% of the population are left leaning. Seems like an interesting business tactic.
I am curious what cutesy names you call Congressman Foley and Senator Craig. But, I will never know. I will never click this site again.
First off, the post referring in slang to an ethnic group was removed as soon as it was seen. Anytime you see a derogatory comment made feel free to pm Mods. We will remove them and warn the poster.
As I said, I respect the Senate. I do not respect each of the Senators. I will never respect a man who will not vote to abolish partial birth abortions, for example. Nor will I ever respect a man who offers to take a girl home after a party, drives off a bridge, leaves her body in the car, and goes to bed instead of attempting to get her help.
I would vote against both Foley and Craig. Foley was booted from the Republican Party, and Craig was told not to cancel his resignation.
I never condone "degrading" anyone, nor do I degrade other posters, nor do we allow it. Threads that do both are removed. Again, feel free to use the PM feature if you feel their is a controversial thread. I get multiple PM's daily and address each one before I post anything. I'm sorry that you were offended. Please understand that we Mods do not work for SWF. We are all volunteers that participate in the forums, try to assist fellow hobbyists, and take care of any major issues on the forums. My participating in political discussions should not reflect badly on SWF in any way.

 

[mfp1016]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2502714
I am curious what cutesy names you call Congressman Foley and Senator Craig. But, I will never know. I will never click this site again.
Oh jeez, this again, just like Rudedog; can't handle the heat, get all pissy because you aren't getting aquarium advice with a liberal slant.

 

[reefraff]

I love it. Someone from the left getting worked up over what someone calls a candidate/senator from the left. All I can say is they damn well better shovel their own barn first. WHat will be in their pile?
Stupid, idiot, dummy, coke head, drunk, Bu$h, Bushitler, Shrub, DUI Bush, Chimp, Moron, Liar, War Criminal etc.
Cry me a river. Some of Bush's posture and mannerisms do make him look like a chimp, thus you get this

But when a women called in to Limbaughs show and said her daughter said Obama looked like curious george Limbaugh had to appologize for it. I call BS. Obama does look like a chimp cause of the way his ears stick out. Why is it OK to call Bush a chimp and not Obama?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2502592
I'm going to need an actual quote Rylan. The kind I routinely provide for you, along with a reputable source. A Google search of the hot words here quotes from Hagee's book that Hitler was a catholic who persecuted Jews while the catholic church did nothing.
Hagee is wrong to call Hitler a Catholic. That, imho, is like calling anyone who walks into a church a "Christian".
Hagee does bring up a sad but true reality, however. The Catholic Church was officially very quiet during WW2. This was acknowledged, and apoligized for, by the Catholic Church in 1998.
Now, in the defense of the Catholic Church, there were a lot of Protestant Churches that failed to do anything either. Some even supported Hitler and the Nazi Party.
That said, why is this an issue? Did McCain's pastor and mentor give a lifetime achievement award to Hagee?
No, but McCain sought his endorsement... I've also glanced at some stuff saying that Hagee didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah or something like that... Hagee also says something similar to what Wright said about a commitment to Israel ... as did Wright say about the commitment to Africa... point is that if you are going to judge one a particular way then you should do the same for the other...