I wish OBAMA would wear an American Flag pin (at least)

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2501808
I wish I could believe you were in the least bit sincere...
I can assure you many who post on these threads are sincere and care for their country...on both sides of the spectrum.
What proof do you have this individual is not sincere regarding his/her position?
I even posted a quote form a black spritual leader that he too was outraged regarding the lapel pin...do you question his sincerity?
Just becasue someone may have an opinion that is contrary...does not mean they are not sincere.
Just my sincere opinion

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2501840
I can not sit here and blast Obama..and not blast McCain for the same thing.
I was wondering if you would address it.
Wow, you just bumped up on my respect meter

I know you will be able to sleep better tonight knowing that -

 

[apos]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2501853
I can assure you many who post on these threads are sincere and care for their country...on both sides of the spectrum.
I'm sure that's true in general. Not here though.
What proof do you have this individual is not sincere regarding his/her position?
I even posted a quote form a black spritual leader that he too was outraged regarding the lapel pin...do you question his sincerity?
Yep. Political, posturing BS.
And unfortunately we have to put up with several more months of this until people regain their sanity.

 

[apos]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2501845
Obama wore it and then removed it. Did the folks at Fox wear one and then remove it? That would make your analogy accurate if they did.
Actually, yes, I'm pretty sure everyone at Fox has at one point or another, worn a flag pin, and then (gasp!) didn't wear one. Though apparently, now that it's election season, things like "once you wear a flag pin, you must never take it off" are going to be treated as sage and serious ideas for a while.
So it goes.
Hopefully the madness will all die down once one person or another is elected and everyone can stop pretending to be perpetually outraged at whatever happens to come up that looks nice and tasty for their side.

 

[apos]

Originally Posted by MiaHeatLvr
http:///forum/post/2501842
Who are you to judge me or anybody making comments here on levels of your perceived sincerity?
I read your post. It sounded canned, and it's over a truly laughable issue. So I said so.
I love how all the far left websites including MSNBC, and CNN try to make it an innocuous issue as well, when in my eyes I feel it adds to a candidates overall patriotism as a whole.
You keep using that word "patriotism" but you keep using it as if it meant "game show!"
Patriotism is caring about your country: its history and its legacy. That some people have turned some means of celebrating it into yet another kindergarten slap fight of who has the shiniest buttons is sad and distracting.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2501805
Merely slapping a "religion" sticker on comments doesn't magically make them safe or beyond criticism.
In logic circles, this is known as the fallacy of special pleading.
And celebrating the hoped for destruction of countless Jews is a big cut above mere racial insults, in my book.
Pause... Let's keep things in context. I made it very clear I didn't know his comments. I was simply stating, from what I had seen, his comments were theological and not "racist". Theological comments can certainly be hateful; I'm not arguing that. Many of Osama's comments are "theological"...
He also did not, that I have seen, hope for the destruction of countless jews. I highly suspect that is rhetorical rubbish.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2501808
I wish I could believe you were in the least bit sincere...
I love how all the folks on Fox that are whining about this non-issue don't have flag pins on themselves: it's just that phony of an issue.
Again.... Obombus made this an issue when he said wearing a pin was a substitution for patriotism... Had he just shut up and not put the pin on no one would have cared.

 

[suzy]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2501731
I defy you to find a single lie posted on this thread about Obombus...
Just one? Senator Obama is not patriotic because he does not wear a symbol on his lapel. That is a lie.
I defy you to treat a US senator with respect. No matter what you think about him, he is still a US senator. Give respect to his office. That is what a true patriotic and mature person does. Debate his qualities, or lack there of, without disrespecting my country, please.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by bdhutier
http:///forum/post/2501676
How about if I said about myself, "I am a person with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO GERMANY, I am a German person, and remain true to my native land."
Doesn't quite have the same ring... or does it?

That depends on you. If a Jewish person said this for example would it be racist?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2500634
Hagee, to the best of my knowledge (admittedly, limited regarding him.) is not a racist. He preaches against the Catholic church. That's a theological debate, not one of race.
Ron Paul is an idiot to whom the Republicans refuse to even acknowledge is running for president. If you want to compare Ron's ties to the KKK with Senator Byrd (D) we can certainly do that on a different thread.
Thurmond vs Farakhan. Why don't you find a few quotes that Thurmond has said that compare with Farakhan's:
*"White people are potential humans- They haven't evolved yet" Philadelphia Enquirer, 2000
*Many of the Jews who owned the homes, the apartments in the black community, we considered them bloodsuckers because they took from our community and built their community but didn't offer anything back to our community" CNN 1995
*"When the Jews left, the Palestinian Arabs came, Koreans came, Vietnamese...and we call them bloodsuckers" CNN 1995
*"Qaddafi is hated because he is the leader of a small country that is rich, but he uses his money to finance liberation struggles."Louis Farrakhan Savior's Day Speech, Chicago, February 25, 1996
*"The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man..." CNN 1995 Quoting 94 speech
*"Murder and lying comes easy for white people." CNN 1995-- quoting 1994 speech
*"They call them terrorists, I call them freedom fighters." (referring to Hezbollah)Louis Farrakhan at District Council 33 Union Hall, Philadelphia, April 22, 1996
In full context, Farrakhan further expounded by saying, "If you look at the human family -- now, I'm talking about black, brown, red, yellow and white -- we all seem to be frozen on a subhuman level of existence. In Islam and, I believe, in Christian theology and Jewish theology as well, there are three stages of human development. The first stage is called the animalistic stage of development. But when we submit to animal passions, then we can do evil things to one another in that animalistic stage of development. But when moral consciousness comes and we have a self-accusing spirit, it is then that we become human beings. Right now, we have the potential for humanity, but we have not reached that potential, because we are functioning on the animalistic plane of existence."
The remark about Hitler... You should quote the rest of what he said about him... Here the Jews don't like Farrakhan and so they call me 'Hitler'. Well that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man. He wasn't great for me as a Black man but he was a great German and he rose Germany up from the ashes of her defeat by the united force of all of Europe and America after the First World War. Yet Hitler took Germany from the ashes and rose her up and made her the greatest fighting machine of the twentieth century, brothers and sisters, and even though Europe and America had deciphered the code that Hitler was using to speak to his chiefs of staff, they still had trouble defeating Hitler even after knowing his plans in advance. Now I'm not proud of Hitler's evil toward Jewish people, but that's a matter of record. He rose Germany up from nothing.
My point is this... I am not defending what he has said as being right; however, you should post these comments in there full context. Most of the remarks you listed above are not racist but more socio-economic or political.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2501853
I can assure you many who post on these threads are sincere and care for their country...on both sides of the spectrum.
What proof do you have this individual is not sincere regarding his/her position?
I even posted a quote form a black spritual leader that he too was outraged regarding the lapel pin...do you question his sincerity?
Just becasue someone may have an opinion that is contrary...does not mean they are not sincere.
Just my sincere opinion
That fact that he is black and a spiritual leader shouldn't matter. Just because they are of the same race doesn't make him the authority..especially since he shouldn't be commenting on this anyway due to his religious affiliation and position within the church.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2501913
Pause... Let's keep things in context. I made it very clear I didn't know his comments. I was simply stating, from what I had seen, his comments were theological and not "racist". Theological comments can certainly be hateful; I'm not arguing that. Many of Osama's comments are "theological"...
He also did not, that I have seen, hope for the destruction of countless jews. I highly suspect that is rhetorical rubbish.
The televangelist, San Antonio megachurch leader John Hagee, has referred to the Roman Catholic Church as "the great whore" and called it a "false cult system" and "the apostate church"; the word "apostate" means someone who has forsaken his religion.
He also has linked Adolf Hitler to the Catholic church, suggesting it helped shape his anti-Semitism

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2502003
Just one? Senator Obama is not patriotic because he does not wear a symbol on his lapel. That is a lie.
Suzy, what post said that? I've read through this thread several times and have yet to see anyone say that. Please quote it for me.
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2502003
I defy you to treat a US senator with respect. No matter what you think about him, he is still a US senator. Give respect to his office. That is what a true patriotic and mature person does. Debate his qualities, or lack there of, without disrespecting my country, please.
Respect is earned, no inherited with a mantle of office. He's not even my Senator. I respect the Senate, I do not respect all of the Senators. Heck, Obombus's position of partial birth abortion alone prevents me from ever respecting him in any manner.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2502071
...
My point is this... I am not defending what he has said as being right; however, you should post these comments in there full context. Most of the remarks you listed above are not racist but more socio-economic or political.
Rylan, are you seriously going to try to defend the indefensible here? Are you really going to argue on behalf of Farakhan?
You said Farakhan had changed his ways and said hateful, racist comments over 20 years ago. I posted a tiny sample of numerous speeches more recently proving you are wrong.
His statements are absolutely racist. "White man", "Jew", "Korean", etc. are races. To say "the ______ are bloodsuckers." is not a economic statement, it's a racial one...
I read through much of the paragraphs that I quoted. I cut and pasted the salinet features of those paragraphs. I do not have the space to post his entire speeches, nor will I subject anyone to reading that filth.
"Hitler was a good man"... There is nothing that can follow that sentence..... unless it is "when he killed himself" that can possibly make it right. I'm sure there were a lot of poor European businessmen that became wealthy and powerful using the slave trade in the 1600's. Would Farakhan call any of them "great" for "rising up out of the ashes"?
I don't have the space to quote his entire speeches, nor

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2502079
That fact that he is black and a spiritual leader shouldn't matter. Just because they are of the same race doesn't make him the authority..especially since he shouldn't be commenting on this anyway due to his religious affiliation and position within the church.
So, to clarify, would you say Obumbus's pastor should avoid similar speeches?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2502081
The televangelist, San Antonio megachurch leader John Hagee, has referred to the Roman Catholic Church as "the great whore" and called it a "false cult system" and "the apostate church"; the word "apostate" means someone who has forsaken his religion.
He also has linked Adolf Hitler to the Catholic church, suggesting it helped shape his anti-Semitism
As I said in my first post regarding Hagee, I know he has preached out against the Catholic Church.... I even said I disagree with his theology.
Nowhere in that statement is a race addressed, however. He's attacking the institution of the Catholic church, much like I'm attacking the institution of the "Trinity United Church of Christ".
Feel free to post a quote where he links Hitler to the Catholic Church.

 

[apos]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2501913
Pause... Let's keep things in context. I made it very clear I didn't know his comments. I was simply stating, from what I had seen, his comments were theological and not "racist". Theological comments can certainly be hateful; I'm not arguing that.
I don't see any lack of context. You are trying to special plead comments out by making a false distinction between any old comment and supposed theological ones, and you continue to try and use that distinction here. If mentioning theology isn't an preemptive excuse, why bring it up at all?
Many of Osama's comments are "theological"...
Someday you'll realize that childish appellations say far more about yourself than your intended target.
He also did not, that I have seen, hope for the destruction of countless jews. I highly suspect that is rhetorical rubbish.
Nope: quite true. This is, in fact, the way many fundamental dispensationalism read the Bible: that Israel will be destroyed, along with all the faithless Jews who had a chance to believe but did not, and that this is the hoped for sign of the Second Coming. You can try to wrap that in theology all you want: it's still working towards the hoped for destruction of Israel.
And let's not lose focus of the fact that Obama never sought support, never supported, and has never done anything other than condemn Mr. F: only by playing six degrees of separation has anyone tried to tar Obama with views he clearly doesn't share. McCain, on the other hand, actively sought the endorsement of and stood on the same stage as Hagee: a man who 8 years ago he was classifying as an agent of intolerance. Apparently such agents are now too important to be left out of his campaign this time around. What a maverick!
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2501914
Again.... Obombus made this an issue when he said wearing a pin was a substitution for patriotism...
Nothing about that is an issue. If someone feels that a certain act has become too rote and pc to be a meaningful expression in their case, or has ceased to express their actual patriotism, what's the problem with that, exactly?
This was simply Fox News' "boldly distorted things we can try to get couch potatoes so outraged about that they spill their cheetoes" of the week one week.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2502098
Rylan, are you seriously going to try to defend the indefensible here? Are you really going to argue on behalf of Farakhan?
You said Farakhan had changed his ways and said hateful, racist comments over 20 years ago. I posted a tiny sample of numerous speeches more recently proving you are wrong.
His statements are absolutely racist. "White man", "Jew", "Korean", etc. are races. To say "the ______ are bloodsuckers." is not a economic statement, it's a racial one...
I read through much of the paragraphs that I quoted. I cut and pasted the salinet features of those paragraphs. I do not have the space to post his entire speeches, nor will I subject anyone to reading that filth.
"Hitler was a good man"... There is nothing that can follow that sentence..... unless it is "when he killed himself" that can possibly make it right. I'm sure there were a lot of poor European businessmen that became wealthy and powerful using the slave trade in the 1600's. Would Farakhan call any of them "great" for "rising up out of the ashes"?
I don't have the space to quote his entire speeches, nor
You don't have to post the entire speech, but I think it is important to post the quote in context to the rest of the statement. For example I could post
you saying
" I'm sure there were a lot of poor European businessmen that became wealthy and powerful using the slave trade in the 1600's"
which without proper context, your statements could be misinterpreted.
Now, moving back to the endorsement... Farrakhan never said he endorsed Obama... he said he was a good man or something like that... However, McCain sought the endorsement of Hagee.. This is a major difference.. And when asked about Hagee's statements... he did not "denounce and reject" as suggested that Obama needed to do. So my point is that you are biased to the republican party which is fine, but the same standards should apply when criticizing the candidates. I don't think it matters what type of discrimination you choose to embrace, its all wrong regardless of what it is based on. (religion, race, gender, orientation, etc)

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2502108
As I said in my first post regarding Hagee, I know he has preached out against the Catholic Church.... I even said I disagree with his theology.
Nowhere in that statement is a race addressed, however. He's attacking the institution of the Catholic church, much like I'm attacking the institution of the "Trinity United Church of Christ".
Feel free to post a quote where he links Hitler to the Catholic Church.
Here are some other remarks... I haven't listened to his sermon...it may be hard to find

Democrats quoted Hagee as saying the Catholic Church conspired with Nazis against the Jews and that Hurricane Katrina was God's retribution for homosexual sin, and they recited his demeaning comments about women and flip remarks about slavery
Just go to youtube and you will see why a endorsement by him is bad. Too much stuff to list

 

[zman1]

I want the China free trade deal renegotiated... I have said it before, it's wrong to send American's Wealth to Communist China (PRC) and grow it's economy. Free trade should never trump the long term security of this country. Security is a broad brush... I believe Obama has also said China is building submarines at a rate 3 to 1 compared to us . How can they afford this buildup and loan money to the US at the same time, Huh I am betting with FREE-TRADE deals. Wakeup....
I want a candidate concerned about all of America and Americans.
Let's see what the bottom banner was running during the President's speech today on the Columbian issue, but first, the speech politicizing the free-trade agreement was the primary reason and then to say it is tied to our credibility in the region - is laughable.
Now the bottom banner was running information on one of our current free trade partners.
China's leader said Taiwan will pay dearly if it continues it' s Pro-Independence. China's leader looking to improve trade relations with Russia.

[hr]
March 3 (Bloomberg) -- The Chinese military continues to improve its capacity to conduct long-range missions beyond a confrontation with Taiwan, the Pentagon said in a new report.
The People's Liberation Army ``is pursuing comprehensive transformation from a mass army designed for protracted wars of attrition on its territory to one capable of fighting and winning short-duration wars along its periphery against high-tech adversaries,'' the report concludes.
Much of China's modernization drive is aimed at altering the military balance between China and Taiwan in China's favor, says the congressionally mandated annual report, which covers 2007. The Chinese government regards Taiwan as a breakaway province.
Although Taiwan has spent more on defense in recent years, reversing the trend of declining defense expenditures, ``the balance of forces continues to shift in the mainland's favor,'' the new report says.
While citing the Chinese buildup, the report also noted what it said were several factors that would deter China from taking military action against Taiwan.
China doesn't yet ``possess the military capability to accomplish with confidence its political objectives'' on Taiwan and could be tied up there for years by Taiwanese insurgents, it said. An invasion could ``severely retard economic development'' in China and lead to international sanctions, it said.