I'm finally up and running!!!

[beaslbob]

First +1 to bang guy's comments.
actually a tank started with algae like on live rock or with a refugium with macros coud very well have a silent cycle where there is little or no ammonia or nitrite spike but a possible initial nitrate spike. The reason is the algae actually will consume any ammonia present to get its nitrogen and therefore less nitrates.
I noticed some posts here in possible floods, installing valves and so on. With proper adjustments no floods should occur. As water moves from one container to the other(s) the level in that container lowers. So you adjust the overflow and levels in both containers so that neither floods. The overflow in the display stops draining before the sump floods. You add anti siphon hole so the return plumbing does not siphon to the sump during power outages. if the overflow fails (blockage or siphon break) the sump runs dry before the display floods.
But ATO can chang all that should the overflow fail in which case the ato kicks in and more water is pumped to the display.
Just things to check out.
Worth at most .02

 

[mr. limpid]

+1
you could get a fish put it into the QT while you ghost feed the DT. It will take 3 weeks at least in QT B4 you can add to your DT. Assuming your QT is cycled and reedy for fish.

 

[marvelfan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/390857/im-finally-up-and-running/60#post_3465183
With proper adjustments no floods should occur. As water moves from one container to the other(s) the level in that container lowers. So you adjust the overflow and levels in both containers so that neither floods. The overflow in the display stops draining before the sump floods. You add anti siphon hole so the return plumbing does not siphon to the sump during power outages. if the overflow fails (blockage or siphon break) the sump runs dry before the display floods.
But ATO can chang all that should the overflow fail in which case the ato kicks in and more water is pumped to the display.
I believe you are correct. my current set up would only result in about a gallon or 2 of water overflowing (still undesirable), but at least now if my siphon would break I don't have to worry about my pump running dry. I'm going to do some better sump design on my next tank.
I'll look into ghost feeding. Does it matter what I feed. I have some cheapo Tetra flakes that came with my QT 10 gallon kit. Would that do?

 

[bang guy]

The flakes will work. That's about the only time I would add flaked food to my saltwater aquarium.
For ATO, if you install the ATO on the sump (lowest container) then the ATO will stop when the pumps stop or the power goes out.

 

[marvelfan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/390857/im-finally-up-and-running/60#post_3465185
+1
you could get a fish put it into the QT while you ghost feed the DT. It will take 3 weeks at least in QT B4 you can add to your DT. Assuming your QT is cycled and reedy for fish.
That's not a bad idea. I was wondering about this though? Is it recommended to quarantine your first addition to the tank. I have nothing in the tank right now. i would understand having to quarantine all livestock after the first fish for the other fish safety against disease, but what is the reason to quarantine the first addition?
Other questions I have:
Should I hang the HOB filter of my quarantine tank on the Display tank to capture soem good bacteria?
Would the QT be considered cycled at this point if I introduce the HOB Filter back onto the QT?
Lets say I get a fish this weekend and put it in my quarantine tank. Would a weekly water change of 10% be recommended on my 10G QT (more or less)?
I've been reading about hyposalinity in QT tanks. Is this recommended? What is the purpose?

 

[sweatervest13]

I would QT the first fish. If there is an issue you don't want to treat in your DT (for example if you need to treat with copper). Plus if you need to remove the fish it is in a small 10g tank with no LR, a lot easier to catch. Just my $.02

 

[mr. limpid]

+1 with sweatervest13, you never want to treat in your DT, plus trying to catch a fish in your DT is difficult and stressful to fish. I use the same tank for QT and hospital. If this HOB was not on DT during cycling then hanging it on the back now will take 2 to 3 months to cycle. What is the media in this HOB?

 

[marvelfan]

I"m not really sure. Its an Aqueon Filter cartridge. I'm not sure what is in it. It came with the 10G Basic Kit. I had an ammonia spike in the QT tank a couple days ago. The HOB filter came unplugged I found out. Must have been for a day. i just had 4 lbs of LR and 2 snails in it. right now the QT tank is empty and I did a 50% water change. I'll do some testing on the QT over the next couple days and keep it running. If it tests out I'll put a clown in the QT to prep him for the DT in 3-4 weeks.

 

[marvelfan]

Actually.. should you do daily water changes on a QT?

 

[mr. limpid]

Usually HOB have carbon material in a floss bag. This ok but carbon doesn't remove ammonia, it removes organics which will turn into ammonia. The LR you have in your QT has the bacteria living on it for the natural filtration. I would leave the LR in your QT and the HOB, remove all inverts (put into DT) then add you first new fish. Have a bottle of Amqel+ or Prime on hand and a ready made batch of fresh sea water. Check ammonia reading daily. QT the new fish for 3 weeks, if ick breaks out you can perform hypo with LR in tank, if you choose copper treatment then you will need to remove LR (this will cause ammonia spike). If other illness occurs the LR will need to be removed because the rock will absorb the medication making it less effective.

 

[marvelfan]

I'm thinking I need to take a step back here:
Let me lay this out more clearly.
My DT has been cycling since March 4th (11 days ago).
I added shrimp to the tank on March 8th (7 days ago)
I realized I wanted to spare some snails in my DT and figured it would be a good idea to start a QT for future additions.
I set up the QT on March 8th. I added the snails and the 2 pieces of LR they were attached to to the QT.
I did my testing for the next several days - I was only testing the DT. Figured the QT was fine.
On March 11th I did a test of the QT and found ammonia to be 1.0 ppm. I did a 50% water change to help lower it. (Snails still alive)
On March 12th I realized the HOB filter on the QT had somehow come unplugged. I plugged it back in
On March 14th I decided to move the LR and Snails back in to the DT. The QT is not empty, but still has the same water in it.
Knowing all of this, what should I do with the QT. Use the water in there? Dump it out and put fresh water in?
I'm in no rush to buy fish, I want to establish my tanks. I didn't realize I need to cycle the QT (feeling dumb).
Thanks for all the help.
I'm giving my DT more time with the shimp to see if I get a spike.
Last nights tests on the DT were ~0 ammonia (not quite 0 but no where close to .25 ppm) 0 nitrate and 0 nitrite. pH of 8.4.
That shrimp doesn't seem to be doing much to the system.
I think I'm more taken-aback by the fact that I've done all the reading and know what I shoudl expect, but now it seems my situation may be somewhat unique in that I may never see the evidence of the cycle. A "silent-cycle" i think it was termed by someone, may be occuring.
I'm willing to give it as much time as necessary to make sure i'm 100% ready.

 

[mr. limpid]

Yes this changes everthing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelFan http:///t/390857/im-finally-up-and-running/60#post_3465326
I'm thinking I need to take a step back here:
Let me lay this out more clearly.
My DT has been cycling since March 4th (11 days ago).
I added shrimp to the tank on March 8th (7 days ago)
I realized I wanted to spare some snails in my DT and figured it would be a good idea to start a QT for future additions.
I set up the QT on March 8th. I added the snails and the 2 pieces of LR they were attached to to the QT.
I did my testing for the next several days - I was only testing the DT. Figured the QT was fine.
On March 11th I did a test of the QT and found ammonia to be 1.0 ppm. I did a 50% water change to help lower it. (Snails still alive) This means QT is cycling(QT is just another tank same principles apply to it as DT)
On March 12th I realized the HOB filter on the QT had somehow come unplugged. I plugged it back in As stated above carbon only removes organics, filter floss in time will have bacteria grow in it.
On March 14th I decided to move the LR and Snails back in to the DT. The QT is not empty, but still has the same water in it. IF QT is void of any filtration then its not going to sustain life. Add HOB will not work, some people may say different, but I lost to many fish in my QT with HOB as filter to agree with them.
Knowing all of this, what should I do with the QT. Use the water in there? Dump it out and put fresh water in? The water in there is fine as is. You need to check parm's, first.
I'm in no rush to buy fish, I want to establish my tanks. I didn't realize I need to cycle the QT (feeling dumb). Yes this just a min DT, you'll need to have a filter, like a large sponge filter type.
Thanks for all the help. NP I only wish I had a site like this when I first started, would of saved a lot fish lives and my wallet.
I'm giving my DT more time with the shimp to see if I get a spike. good idea, patience is the best advice for a fish keepers
Last nights tests on the DT were ~0 ammonia (not quite 0 but no where close to .25 ppm) 0 nitrate and 0 nitrite. pH of 8.4. If this holds for 2 weeks then DT is good to go.
That shrimp doesn't seem to be doing much to the system. You only need to let be in there a couple of days, then pull it out.
I think I'm more taken-aback by the fact that I've done all the reading and know what I shoudl expect, but now it seems my situation may be somewhat unique in that I may never see the evidence of the cycle. A "silent-cycle" i think it was termed by someone, may be occuring.
I'm willing to give it as much time as necessary to make sure i'm 100% ready.

Your QT should be as good as your DT's filtration. This the place for fish to recover from there long trip from the big blue to your house.

 

[marvelfan]

The HOB filter is an Aqueon QuietFlow 10. Description says "four stages of filtration: mechanical, chemical, biological and wet/dry"
I think this should suffice for the QT? I think its more they just a carbon filter.

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelFan http:///t/390857/im-finally-up-and-running/60#post_3465332
The HOB filter is an Aqueon QuietFlow 10. Description says "four stages of filtration: mechanical, chemical, biological and wet/dry"
I think this should suffice for the QT? I think its more they just a carbon filter.
I looked it up, yes its better than the mechanical ony filters. I suggest pulling the shrimp out of DT and putting it in QT. Then test to see what is happening. Having Amquel+ or Prime on hand is still a good idea while QT fish.

 

[sweatervest13]

+1 On what Mr. Limpid said.
You will need to cycle the QT. It sounds like the DT will be ready before the QT, which is fine (like you said, you are in no hurry). The filter you have on the QT sounds just fine, you just need to test and wait for the numbers to come down to 0's. The water change in the QT may have slowed it down a bit. I have soft cycled a QT tank in a pinch. You basically do lots of water changes to keep the ammonia at survive-able levels, but it takes longer to cycle to a point where all the numbers are 0. I recommend just waiting for the QT to cycle.

 

[marvelfan]

Thanks for all the input. I'll check out my levels tonight and see where I'm at. I have an extra shrimp in the fridge. Maybe all throw it in the QT tank for a day or two and watch it cycle.
I'll keep everyone updated.
I was originally going to add 2 clowns to my tank as my first addition. I've heard it better to introduce them in pairs if that is your intention. Do you think its better to introduce one at a time over 3-6 weeks, or is it acceptable to add 2 of them right away?

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelFan http:///t/390857/im-finally-up-and-running/60#post_3465356
Thanks for all the input. I'll check out my levels tonight and see where I'm at. I have an extra shrimp in the fridge. Maybe all throw it in the QT tank for a day or two and watch it cycle.
I'll keep everyone updated.
I was originally going to add 2 clowns to my tank as my first addition. I've heard it better to introduce them in pairs if that is your intention. Do you think its better to introduce one at a time over 3-6 weeks, or is it acceptable to add 2 of them right away?
If you want two, put them in at same time. Clowns are in the damsel family and will defend there territory from other clowns. Just a little info on clowns: all clowns start out male, only physical difference that we can see in mated pairs are that females are larger than males. With that said try to pick out 1 smaller than other. Also mated clowns do this mating dance, where the male shakes next to the female, so if you see this happening in the LFS try to get the two of them. The dominate clown will turn into female. Once they switched sex they can not switch back. Also this just my own idea, that placing them together in QT helps in the bonding, this just my observation after mating (4) different set of clowns.

 

[icedtc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/390857/im-finally-up-and-running/60#post_3465363
If you want two, put them in at same time. Clowns are in the damsel family and will defend there territory from other clowns. Just a little info on clowns: all clowns start out male, only physical difference that we can see in mated pairs are that females are larger than males. With that said try to pick out 1 smaller than other. Also mated clowns do this mating dance, where the male shakes next to the female, so if you see this happening in the LFS try to get the two of them. The dominate clown will turn into female. Once they switched sex they can not switch back. Also this just my own idea, that placing them together in QT helps in the bonding, this just my observation after mating (4) different set of clowns.
Not to hijack the thread I just had a question for you in regards to trying to get a mated pair of clowns. When I got my two baby clowns (both about .5 inches) one of the two is definately smaller than the other so I am hoping the larger turns female. Is the only way to tell if/when this happens to watch for this "dance"? Also, do you know approx. when these little guys mature? I would love to see these 2 become a mated pair...just wondering on how to tell, etc.
+1 to putting them in at the same time Marvel. Like Mr. Limpid said, the more time they are together the better. Good luck!

 

[marvelfan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/390857/im-finally-up-and-running/60#post_3465363
If you want two, put them in at same time. Clowns are in the damsel family and will defend there territory from other clowns. Just a little info on clowns: all clowns start out male, only physical difference that we can see in mated pairs are that females are larger than males. With that said try to pick out 1 smaller than other. Also mated clowns do this mating dance, where the male shakes next to the female, so if you see this happening in the LFS try to get the two of them. The dominate clown will turn into female. Once they switched sex they can not switch back. Also this just my own idea, that placing them together in QT helps in the bonding, this just my observation after mating (4) different set of clowns.
Good info! I'll be on the look out! I know my LFS has a couple tanks of clowns that are advertised as mated. I think they mark the price up though. Its about $80-$150 I think for mated pair based on size and such, if I remember correctly. It would be more less expensive to choose a small and a medium and hope they bond. I guess there is no guarantee, but I like the idea of placing them in the QT together.
Very interesting!

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelFan http:///t/390857/im-finally-up-and-running/60#post_3465369
Good info! I'll be on the look out! I know my LFS has a couple tanks of clowns that are advertised as mated. I think they mark the price up though. Its about $80-$150 I think for mated pair based on size and such, if I remember correctly. It would be more less expensive to choose a small and a medium and hope they bond. I guess there is no guarantee, but I like the idea of placing them in the QT together.
Very interesting!
That made me remember when I got my Chevron tang and Lattice butterfly. I normally do not buy two fish at one time but they had deal, buy one at full price and get the second at half off. Plus the manager new me so he even knock that down a bit (snakes method "get to know the LFS"). So I had no choice I had to place both in QT together, when they came out of QT they hung out together in DT for a long time after that.