Is everyone equal in heaven?

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108592
If you follow the tenets of religion, he wouldn't leave anyone out, regardless of their past discretions. The only one's left behind, are the one's who don't believe the place even exists. It'a all a mental apparition. You can believe their is a heaven, or another 'place' you go to when you die, but the fact is, no one really knows. The only way to truly find out is to die. Once that happens, there's no way to come back to tell the rest of us if it's true or not. So until somebody does truly come back from the dead (not these 'I saw bright lights and felt my body floating above me' stories), heaven is only in the minds of the believers.

I just love when people try to argue points they clearly are ignorant on. NO the tenants do not state this. The tenants state (in Christianity) that you must ask Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins and BELIEVE he died on the cross for those sins and wish to follow his guidance from that point on. End of story. The tenants do not state you have to ONLY believe there is a heaven.

If the previous human that sacrificed to "volcanos" and the "sky" did not believe that these entities were a "higher power" what was the point of the sacrifice. See you are confusing religious belief and the existance of "heaven". The two do not go hand in hand. Scientology is a RELIGION. Do they believe in a heaven or afterlife?
Religion is nothing more than a conformation to guidelines set forth by another being, that an individual subscribes to and molds their life after. Therefore, without the bible, religion would still exist.
On a side note...Hindu-Aryanism is the oldest "dated" religion known to man....strange...has nothing to do with the bible.

 

[dragonzim]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108592
Humans have seeked God before the inception of the bible? In what context? How far back in mankind are you going? Most sacrifices before the bible were done to appease the Earth and sky, not some Supreme Being. They made sacrifices to keep volcanos from erupting and to get water to fall from the sky. I don't think they visualized some 'afterlife' when they died. That concept began with the Bible.
Not even remotely accurate. Look at the PaganCeltic religions of Europe and at Ancient Egypt. Both were thriving civilizations long before the bible was written and both have very definite ideas of gods and the afterlife.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108592
Humans have seeked God before the inception of the bible? In what context? How far back in mankind are you going? Most sacrifices before the bible were done to appease the Earth and sky, not some Supreme Being. They made sacrifices to keep volcanos from erupting and to get water to fall from the sky. I don't think they visualized some 'afterlife' when they died. That concept began with the Bible.
If you follow the tenets of religion, he wouldn't leave anyone out, regardless of their past discretions. The only one's left behind, are the one's who don't believe the place even exists. It'a all a mental apparition. You can believe their is a heaven, or another 'place' you go to when you die, but the fact is, no one really knows. The only way to truly find out is to die. Once that happens, there's no way to come back to tell the rest of us if it's true or not. So until somebody does truly come back from the dead (not these 'I saw bright lights and felt my body floating above me' stories), heaven is only in the minds of the believers.

UMMM if you have no faith than even if someone came back from the dead you would not believe them...a list for you ...Lazarus, Jesus, Tabitha...the revelations of John is someone telling it...it was even written down...still you don't believe.
I didn't say folks accurately sought out god, just the search and the belief in god outdates the Bible...people were crazy, sacrificing their children, the whole mess. LOL...folks thought there is nothing more powerful than the mountian so they worshiped that, some thought the sky covered all so they worshiped that...some say all things live because of the sun, so they worshiped that...the list is endless.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3108651

UMMM if you have no faith than even if someone came back from the dead you would not believe them...a list for you ...Lazarus, Jesus, Tabitha...the revelations of John is someone telling it...it was even written down...still you don't believe.
I didn't say folks accurately sought out god, just the search and the belief in god outdates the Bible...people were crazy, sacrificing their children, the whole mess. LOL...folks thought there is nothing more powerful than the mountian so they worshiped that, some thought the sky covered all so they worshiped that...some say all things live because of the sun, so they worshiped that...the list is endless.
Lazurus, Jesus, and Tabitha were just characters in a book. Where is the proof they died then returned? Just because someone writes it down in a book doesn't prove that it actually happened. Aesop's Fables are written in a book. Do you believe all those stories? They put Jesus in a cave and closed the entrance with a rock. Couple days later, the rock was moved and he was gone. The faithful presumed he had 'risen' and went to go sit next to his Father in this entity you call heaven. As far as I know, no one has seen him since.
Search and belief of a 'god', not the same God you revere that comes from the bible. Cavemen thought fire was some kind of god when they first saw it. Because of the bible, mankind has changed in so many ways, it's unimaginable. What I'm saying is, what would the world be like today if the bible were never written? Would there still be the various sects of religious groups?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108723
Lazurus, Jesus, and Tabitha were just characters in a book. Where is the proof they died then returned? Just because someone writes it down in a book doesn't prove that it actually happened. Aesop's Fables are written in a book. Do you believe all those stories? They put Jesus in a cave and closed the entrance with a rock. Couple days later, the rock was moved and he was gone. The faithful presumed he had 'risen' and went to go sit next to his Father in this entity you call heaven. As far as I know, no one has seen him since.
Search and belief of a 'god', not the same God you revere that comes from the bible. Cavemen thought fire was some kind of god when they first saw it. Because of the bible, mankind has changed in so many ways, it's unimaginable. What I'm saying is, what would the world be like today if the bible were never written? Would there still be the various sects of religious groups?
So is heaven, and that is the basis of your question.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108723
Lazurus, Jesus, and Tabitha were just characters in a book. Where is the proof they died then returned? Just because someone writes it down in a book doesn't prove that it actually happened. Aesop's Fables are written in a book. Do you believe all those stories? They put Jesus in a cave and closed the entrance with a rock. Couple days later, the rock was moved and he was gone. The faithful presumed he had 'risen' and went to go sit next to his Father in this entity you call heaven. As far as I know, no one has seen him since.
stop quoting or reciting biblical verse/story line. You obviously do not buy into it and have NEVER actually read it or studied. Jesus appearred before several people after his reserection. Paul, Mary and a few other's I can't think of because your ignorance on the subject is irritating since you are acting as if you are in the know on the subject.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108723
Search and belief of a 'god', not the same God you revere that comes from the bible. Cavemen thought fire was some kind of god when they first saw it. Because of the bible, mankind has changed in so many ways, it's unimaginable. What I'm saying is, what would the world be like today if the bible were never written? Would there still be the various sects of religious groups?

Hindu, Budhism, Mayan pantheon, Greek Gods, Roman Gods, All had historical "biblical like" story lines....What is you obssession with the bible? Yes, without the bible the world would still have many forms of organized religion. Scientology is a prime example....Scientology came from something totally away from the bible. Seriously, are you tying ALL religions to the creation of one single book?

 

[dragonzim]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108723
What I'm saying is, what would the world be like today if the bible were never written? Would there still be the various sects of religious groups?
Of course there would. There are many religions in practice today that have nothing at all to do with the Judeo-Christian bible.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3108763
Hindu, Budhism, Mayan pantheon, Greek Gods, Roman Gods, All had historical "biblical like" story lines....What is you obssession with the bible? Yes, without the bible the world would still have many forms of organized religion. Scientology is a prime example....Scientology came from something totally away from the bible. Seriously, are you tying ALL religions to the creation of one single book?
Not at all. It's just the most volatile, confrontational, and sometimes diabolical religions are tied to the bible. Without those, I think the world would have a totally different look and feel.
BTW - I grew up Catholic. Went to Catholic school for 6 years before I could beg and plead with my parents to get me away from that craziness.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108844
Not at all. It's just the most volatile, confrontational, and sometimes diabolical religions are tied to the bible. Without those, I think the world would have a totally different look and feel.
BTW - I grew up Catholic. Went to Catholic school for 6 years before I could beg and plead with my parents to get me away from that craziness.
Islam could be considered just as volatile...not tied to the bible. Hinduism as well has its own violent hiustory...ALL religions have a violent, confrontational, and diabolical history...
Going to school in a catholic school for six years does not mean you understood or even bothered to grasp the "story" behind the religion. I know someone who went to law school for 4 years because his parents sent him there....he doesn't understand law worth a crap.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3108855
Islam could be considered just as volatile...not tied to the bible. Hinduism as well has its own violent hiustory...ALL religions have a violent, confrontational, and diabolical history...
Going to school in a catholic school for six years does not mean you understood or even bothered to grasp the "story" behind the religion. I know someone who went to law school for 4 years because his parents sent him there....he doesn't understand law worth a crap.
Trust me, I understand it more than you think. I may have only gone to Catholic school for 6 years, but the Catholic beliefs were drilled into my head 8 hours/day, 6 days/week. Probably why I've distanced myself from religion.
My issues with religion is that the people who fervently believe in it try to instill and push it on the people who don't, or don't care. You want to believe in a Supreme Being and there's some glorious afterlife? No problems. But don't go around saying it was 'the will of God' that we got rain, or I survived cancer, or I won the lottery, or I didn't get killed in that car crash. Don't tell me I can't do what I want to do with my body just because you think it's sinful to drink alcohol, even dance, or heaven forbid you want to have an abortion because it's something I choose to do. Don't look down on me, or treat me like a second-class citizen because I don't want to get up every Sunday and go sit in a large room with a bunch of other people listening to some guy tell me stories, or say I'm going to h3ll if I don't tithe 20 percent of my salary to his cause. And the most important thing is, don't try to instill YOUR religious beliefs into MY government.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108723
Lazurus, Jesus, and Tabitha were just characters in a book. Where is the proof they died then returned? Just because someone writes it down in a book doesn't prove that it actually happened. Aesop's Fables are written in a book. Do you believe all those stories? They put Jesus in a cave and closed the entrance with a rock. Couple days later, the rock was moved and he was gone. The faithful presumed he had 'risen' and went to go sit next to his Father in this entity you call heaven. As far as I know, no one has seen him since.
Search and belief of a 'god', not the same God you revere that comes from the bible. Cavemen thought fire was some kind of god when they first saw it. Because of the bible, mankind has changed in so many ways, it's unimaginable. What I'm saying is, what would the world be like today if the bible were never written? Would there still be the various sects of religious groups?

Let’s see, Thomas said unless he could thrust his hand into the wound in Jesus side, he would not believe he had indeed risen. Let me put it this way....Thomas was Jesus friend...so to him he appeared to prove it, but who are you?
What has he got to prove to you? The dead, who arose after the resurrection...what do they have to gain by convincing you anything? You would just think yourself crazy if one should show up....so why even bother.
So we are left to speculate...to guess, to wonder. What a person chooses to believe, and how they show their belief, speaks volumes on their character. Truly revealing the inner person. No two humans can sit in the same room and believe exactly alike, there will always be some tiny difference...faith is as unique as a fingerprint. So there will always be sections of folks who join together to worship their way.
So without a fight...you to your god and me to mine. As for me and my house..We will serve HaShem, the G-d of Israel. I personally believe the account written in the books.
In America, you are free to believe what you want without fear. Life is good.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108861
Trust me, I understand it more than you think. I may have only gone to Catholic school for 6 years, but the Catholic beliefs were drilled into my head 8 hours/day, 6 days/week. Probably why I've distanced myself from religion.
Amazing, you know the topic well, but yet every comment on the subject you have made has been shown to be wrong.
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108861
My issues with religion is that the people who fervently believe in it try to instill and push it on the people who don't, or don't care. You want to believe in a Supreme Being and there's some glorious afterlife? No problems. But don't go around saying it was 'the will of God' that we got rain, or I survived cancer, or I won the lottery, or I didn't get killed in that car crash. Don't tell me I can't do what I want to do with my body just because you think it's sinful to drink alcohol, even dance, or heaven forbid you want to have an abortion because it's something I choose to do. Don't look down on me, or treat me like a second-class citizen because I don't want to get up every Sunday and go sit in a large room with a bunch of other people listening to some guy tell me stories, or say I'm going to h3ll if I don't tithe 20 percent of my salary to his cause. And the most important thing is, don't try to instill YOUR religious beliefs into MY government.

OK, let's look at this...YOU started this thread. I believe just about 90% of the religious discussions on here are TYPICALLY started by individuals that dislike religion. And once again, here we are, in a thread YOU started having a discussion about religion......so, who forced this down your throat?

 

[tangman99]

Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/3108386
That right there, in a nut shell, sums up the typical statement of those looking for justification for their non-religious participation.
*NOTE* Not implying you specifically Tang, but if this is what you grew up hearing/believing, then fire the preacher and move on. Southern Baptist can be kind of strict (which is why I'm not one), but every non-believer, non-church attending, anti-religion person that I run into (in person) uses this same lame excuse...."they all want your money".
. . . . .
Ah! Taking a poke at me, eh?

In all honesty, that is the message I got in hindsight after I grew up. As a kid all I heard about was how bad of a person I was and how God would throw me in hell if I didn't do this or that. Never anything good. Just fire and brimstone all the time. Here I am a young kid that's is just having fun growing up in a small town. When I got older, I finally realized in my opinion that it was BS and left that craziness.
It's funny bionicarm feels the same way about catholics as I do about Baptists. I was baptized a Catholic because my mom is Roman Catholic but my small town was die hard baptists and they told me all Catholics were going to hell so I went to the only churches around and listened to their manipulating, judgmental views of everyone else.
When I became an adult, I went through the Catholic rituals and actually prefer the Catholic religion over all others if I have to choose but I don't practice that either because I just don't believe in religion.
Also as I have stated in other posts, I have traveled and worked with many people from all over the world that are of many religions that are not Christian. They are very nice people and believe in their God's and practices as much, if not more, than most Christians. But based on the Christian belief that they don't accept Jesus as their personal savior, they are all going to hell. Sorry, I just can't see a loving God that would send someone to hell that was born into a society by chance that believes in something that will cost him an eternity in hell. All of you that are passionate about your beliefs most likely believe what you were taught as a child. If you would have been as a Hindu, guess what you would believe today and if you believe your Christian teachings, you would be going to hell if you didn't convert.
Sorry folks, I'm not drinking the Koolaid by my own rights and beliefs. Nothing against those that do but (not directed to you guys) don't force it upon me and make it your life's mission to save the world. I've never had anyone outside of the Christian faith ever make it a point to push their religion or beliefs upon me or judge me because I am not one of them.
To each their own as it should be.

 

[reefforbrains]

I am just sitting on my balcony watching the scene unfold. It is always so odd to see people get so worked up about what other people believe, but it never changes.
I could comment of one side or another but it would just become insulting so I bite my lip.
The HOW or WHY different people believe what they do is good enough for me. Even if it wasn't, who am I to care if you worship Jesus, Satan, or the Giant carrot in your garden. Knock yourself out. If you cross the law of the land and try and hide behind your religious beliefs only THEN I have an issue with your personal beliefs.
The question originally was about heaven and any residual status that may carry over into each persons version of what they believe heaven to be.

 

[dragonzim]

Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
http:///forum/post/3108967
I am just sitting on my balcony watching the scene unfold. It is always so odd to see people get so worked up about what other people believe, but it never changes.
I could comment of one side or another but it would just become insulting so I bite my lip.
The HOW or WHY different people believe what they do is good enough for me. Even if it wasn't, who am I to care if you worship Jesus, Satan, or the Giant carrot in your garden. Knock yourself out. If you cross the law of the land and try and hide behind your religious beliefs only THEN I have an issue with your personal beliefs.
The question originally was about heaven and any residual status that may carry over into each persons version of what they believe heaven to be.
All hail the might carrot!

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
http:///forum/post/3108967
I am just sitting on my balcony watching the scene unfold. It is always so odd to see people get so worked up about what other people believe, but it never changes.
I could comment of one side or another but it would just become insulting so I bite my lip.
The HOW or WHY different people believe what they do is good enough for me. Even if it wasn't, who am I to care if you worship Jesus, Satan, or the Giant carrot in your garden. Knock yourself out. If you cross the law of the land and try and hide behind your religious beliefs only THEN I have an issue with your personal beliefs.
The question originally was about heaven and any residual status that may carry over into each persons version of what they believe heaven to be.
LOL....I do a lot of lip biting too
WELL SAID

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3108869
Amazing, you know the topic well, but yet every comment on the subject you have made has been shown to be wrong.
OK, let's look at this...YOU started this thread. I believe just about 90% of the religious discussions on here are TYPICALLY started by individuals that dislike religion. And once again, here we are, in a thread YOU started having a discussion about religion......so, who forced this down your throat?
Wrong in whose mind, yours?
I bring up the religious discussions because I'm curious what other people's thoughts are on the subject. You seem to throw your religious beliefs into many of the threads you post in, especially the MULTIPLE political threads you start. So yea, I'd say that's 'forcing religion down my throat'.

 

[ca161406]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3108971
All hail the might carrot!

+1
carrots improve vision

 

[t316]

Originally Posted by TangMan99
http:///forum/post/3108881
Ah! Taking a poke at me, eh?

No, I was not Tang

I made a point to say that I was not specifically referring to you. Like you, I was raised being forced to church everytime the doors were open, listened to fire and brimstone,...."going to hell if you don't repent". It was a Pentecostal Holiness church. But as a young adult, I realized that it's a personal relationship between me and God. I started going to a Methodist church (well, that's where my wife went), and I quickly realized that we are believing in the same God, just not the same rules per say as to how I live my life.
I'm not Catholic, but I have a lot of friends who are, and I have no problems with Catholisism at all, actually they are more laid back than I am. And I don't shun any religion, unless it specifically calls for violence against others, as some of the current religions in the world today. This crap about "God calling us to kill all others" is absurd.
But your remark, and your last post, reminds me of the pity that so many people have been turned off from religion and going to church because of the strick beliefs and/or pressure for money that they learned as a child. Ultimately, it's me/I that has to answer, and it is "I" that has to make that decision to believe in something that I cannot see or touch. For me, now, there's no doubt that God is real. But to convey that in words to someone who doesn't believe is a challenge. I am in no way proclaiming to be "greater than thou", I'll party with the best of you, but I am at peace with the fact that there is a God, I believe in Him, and I will be there in Heaven....(bionic...I'll let you know if everyone is equal

)