Is Tap Water Bad?

[beckzilla]

Originally posted by beaslbob
I don't have to take three weeks or longer to establish sand costing $100s because common play sand will do the same thing. . [/B]
Sand costing 100s of dollars??? Hey bob, i have a 110 gallon tank and used 1 and a half bags of Southdown to get a 3-4" DSB. One bag of SD cost $6.99 times 1.5 equals????? $100s????? Not only cant you spell but your Math is going south too. Shame on you.

:notsure:

 

[beckzilla]

Oh, did i just say that out loud. How silly of me.

 

[reefnut]

Admitting the shop lights are inadequate for a reef is a major step forward. What will it take to prove to yourself tap water can be bad, or skimmers can be useful, or water changes are beneficial, etc??? more death? total tank crash? or what? These "standard" are proven sw techniques used successfully by thousands of people.
There is no shame in being wrong. What’s shameful is allowing foolish pride to destroy innocent creatures.

 

[krowleey]

Only thing i can agree with is use of plant life, "in a fuge" imo is does help keep your water quality high. and beckzilla thats a nice tank but where is the coraline?

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by dburr
Well, I really don't know what to type. WOW.:thinking: I think Bob should start posting newbies to check their water before using it. Is that fair Bob?
My water was checked and I KNOW it has high iron and magnesium. FACT.
I can't use it. Most newbies don't know whats in it and you tell them "it's OK if you add plant life". Sorry, that wont cut it. I think 90% of tap water is unuseable in salt water tanks. (Thats just my theory so don't jump on me.)
Bang: take a deep breath, exhale, in, out..... J/K
DBurr I accept your testing is correct and that you actually have high iron and mag in your water. Even though you may be just overreacting to the fact you have any iron or mag in your water.
Your ignorance is quite understandable. Iron is beneficial to plants. Iron and magnesium are filtered out and maintained by plant life. So in addition to removing buffering agents you are now removing two ions that are easily controlled by plant life and beneicial to aquariums.
And you don't have to take my word for it. Wet web media web site by Bob Fenner:
Bio-filtering: Macro-algae can aid considerably in establishing and stabilizing new or "out-of-whack" systems. They bring in and help to institute micro-organism communities, absorb nutrients introduced by food, decor and tap water. For systems with invertebrates, particularly anemones and live corals, live plant material can be especially helpful in improving water quality. In sufficient growing strength, macro-algae will remove nitrates, assist in buffering pH, uptake carbon dioxide producing oxygen, and assist in balancing trace elements (e.g. magnesium, phosphate, iron)
So you now feel you must use high priced water produced by non federally regulated equipment, subject to failure, to avoid elements that are necessary and easily controlled by plant life costing from nothing (hair algaes) to $20 (various macros).
This is what is wrong with the advice being given newbies. And it is not just beaslbob. that is unless you want to argue with one of the most respected authorities in this hobby.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by Beckzilla
Every successful reef tank? Hey beaslbob, check this pic very carefully and SHOW ME THE PLANT LIFE! BTW- used RO water and Southdown sand. All parameters are perfect and everything is thriving wonderfully.

I presume you don't have a refugium hidden under the tank.
Plant life is the algae all over the rocks. And where's the fish.
Tank looks good. Looks new. and has rocks covered with plant life.
other post. Yes you can save with building materials sand. But the sand was just one item. If you follow the advice the newbie gets is to get the LS. And on this site LS is $109 for 40 pounds. or $218 for 80 pounds whereas plsy sand is $6 for 100 pounds or as you post shouthdown only slightly more.
My point to the newbies is there are several items like this. And that by doing what you did and more the newbie can save $1000s, buy a 120g or even a 300g instead of a 55g. And have a better more awesome system with thriving corals and fish that requires virtually no maintenace.
But by using ro/di, then adding cleaner crews to remove the only plant life in the system, the newbie has the very real possibility of never establishing a balanced stable system that is high on carbon dioxide and incablable of supporting only the very lightest bioload with hardy non desirable fish. Just as my system was before I added the additional plant life.

 

[reefnut]

Originally posted by beaslbob
And you don't have to take my word for it. Wet web media web site by Bob Fenner:
Just another day bob...
Another quote from Wet web media web site... "There are several major benefits of frequent partial water changes: Dilution of nutrient, removal of particulate matter, reduction in microbial populations and their metabolites. Results anticipated are faster, more vigorous growth, reduced algae growth, color and odor."

and another quote "Basically, know this, the water district types are not your best fishy buddies. For various reasoning, they fool with the water, very occasionally yielding a more and more toxic product that you must remain vigilantly suspicious of."
You can read what you want but until you listen to the whole store you will keep killing your critters.

 

[beaslbob]

so I guess reef should tell newbies to do frequent water change, use tap water, and get a thriving plant growth as the very first thing. That way you have combined all of the site's information.

 

[reefnut]

HOLD EVERYTHING... Look at what Bob Fenner has to say about simmers...
"My opinion: this is crucial component in marine aquarium keeping is a must for all salt systems, even the most basic fish-only tank."
So why take one quote and disregard the others...

 

[reefnut]

Originally posted by beaslbob
use tap water
He says tap water is BAD (can't you read?) and I have found NOTHING refering to "get a thriving plant growth as the very first thing" although I don't disagree.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by ReefNut
He says tap water is BAD (can't you read?) and I have found NOTHING refering to "get a thriving plant growth as the very first thing" although I don't disagree.
What he actually said was:
Basically, know this, the water district types are not your best fishy buddies. For various reasoning, they fool with the water, very occasionally yielding a more and more toxic product that you must remain vigilantly suspicious of."
Because you suspect the water district subject to federal standards, used by millions of people every day, we must remain vigilant.
but the RO/DI unit remains above suspicion.
I chose to simple use the water i drink every day and establish a thriving plant growth. I will ismply remain vigilant by reading the newspaper and looking at my system to insure the plant life is still thriving.

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by beaslbob
I chose to simple use the water i drink every day and establish a thriving plant growth. I will ismply remain vigilant by reading the newspaper and looking at my system to insure the plant life is still thriving.
...and you chose to maintain a tank of death instead of a healthy tank. That's your choice I guess.

 

[broomer5]

I've always been more interested in keeping my marine fish and inverts healthy, rather than the algae and plants.
I didn't get into this hobby to grow plants.
If I wanted to grow marine algae, then I would add plant food.
Otherwise - I try to keep the nutrients as low as possible.
Inverts like it that way !

 

[reefnut]

Last quote from as you say "And it is not just beaslbob. that is unless you want to argue with one of the most respected authorities in this hobby." Bob Fenner
RO/DI
Bob,
I just read through the FAQ's and you mentioned using a unit from Home
Depot. REALLY!? I'm looking for a unit (CHEAP!) myself and was
wondering if you tested the water after it runs through? What were your
results? Is maintenance/membrane replacement the same as "hobby" models? Could you recommend at specific model you have first-hand experience with? Thanks, Tony
Yes, these units are 99 percent plus as useful as the ones "remarketed" for aquarium use (they are, no surprise, made by the same manufacturers)... maintenance of these units is identical... and any/all models will do, I assure you... Don't recall the brands, models I've purchased, but do use "just" the home use type myself. Bob Fenner
So who is arguing "with one of the most respected authorities in this hobby."

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by Bang Guy
...and you chose to maintain a tank of death instead of a healthy tank. That's your choice I guess.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by broomer5
I've always been more interested in keeping my marine fish and inverts healthy, rather than the algae and plants.
I didn't get into this hobby to grow plants.
If I wanted to grow marine algae, then I would add plant food.
Otherwise - I try to keep the nutrients as low as possible.
Inverts like it that way !
I agree and I also didn't get into this hobby to grow plants.
I also did not get into this hobby to add food, play with sand and rocks, set up filters lighting and the rest.
All I want to do is have a thriving aquarium with fish and corals. In order to do that, I have to do the rest. After all you can't help getting plant life. So you may as well use it just as you use all the rest.

 

[reefnut]

Originally posted by beaslbob
So you may as well use it just as you use all the rest.
Most of us do. Most of us recommend it. but as you said "just as you use all the rest".

 

[krowleey]

bob, you are wrong tap water has many harmful elements in it, just because you dont drop dead after drinking a glass doesnt mean nothing. fact is tap water is no really fit for human consumtion either in a healthy matter. to telll people tapwater is perfectly fine for a marine tank is wrong. RO/DI water is used for

[hr]
/lab use, even computer chips HAVE to use the purest water see the key word is pure all the elements you need is in your salt mix so recomending a ro/di unit is the right choice. i have done both and i used a ro/di unit and it makes a HUGE diff. as far as saving so much money my unit is a 6 stage 100 gallon/day ro/di unit and got it for 140 bucks brand new shipped to my door. puff puff give bro your holding out on us

 

[dburr]

Your ignorance is quite understandable. Iron is beneficial to plants. Iron and magnesium are filtered out and maintained by plant life. So in addition to removing buffering agents you are now removing two ions that are easily controlled by plant life and beneicial to aquariums.
My ignorance? Excuse me Bob, I can't remember the exact #'s, but it was really on the high side of exceptable to drink. I believe in water changes to replenish trace elements. Like it or not, my corals are THRIVING, not DYEING. Stop and read that again.......
So, every time I do water changes, which is every 2weeks +/-, I would be adding all that mag and iron. Can you HONESTLY say my 25 gallon refugium can not only handle it but lower the #'s? If you say yes, your kidding yourself and all the newbie's. I do not take out 5 pounds of macro a week. I clean it out every other week and I get less than a quarter bucket.
So I say again, my ignorance? I asked you before to try other methods. You wont. Just try for a month, do a couple water changes with RO water. You WILL be amazed at the differance. See for yourself. I don't think you will, why?, because all you ever posted will be thrown out the window. You will notice a differance. You may or may not admit it. If you don't, you can always go back to what your doing.
Can you imagine if people never tried new things to make things better. I'd be driving a model T, or a horse to work.

We've come A LONG way since the 70's technology. It's about time some old school people tried some new things.

 

[beckzilla]

Hey bob, here is your fish and yes i do have a refugium under the tank with macros but no plants in the display tank!

krowleey, here is a pic of the coraline.