It's not fair

[phixer]

http://comejoinin.blogspot.com/2006/...idnapping.html
I still believe this is the best way to deal with it.
Question asked to a Marine sniper. What do you feel when you shoot someone.
Answer: recoil

 

[lubeck]

Originally Posted by fogger
Why does religion have to be involved in this? It is matter of right and wrong. What happened to those girls has nothing to do with Romans 14, or any other biblical referance. He had no mercy, and if he was alive would deserve none! And as someone said earlier a few times... I am done with this POST

That is an interesting comment your stating don't you think?
For MOST, but not all people. RELIGION, is what DECECIDES what is RIGHT and WRONG. You can't forget about ALL the grey to. But mostly religion and faith is stronger than anything else and what decides what is "right" and "wrong". IMO. thats why it has to do with religion

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by Lubeck
That is an interesting comment your stating don't you think?
For MOST, but not all people. RELIGION, is what DECECIDES what is RIGHT and WRONG. You can't forget about ALL the grey to. But mostly religion and faith is stronger than anything else and what decides what is "right" and "wrong". IMO. thats why it has to do with religion
For many others its the consequences of getting caught. If the consequences are mild these people will commit the crime.
I can understand this but everyone interprets religion differently which is another reason why we have a separtion of church and state. There are many Athiests that also understand the difference between right and wrong quite well.

 

[lubeck]

Just to be clear, STATE has adopted and altered MANY religion laws and rules/ideas. I agree with what you say about differences but in general ALL religions feed off each other and still have simialar ideals. IMO, there is a fine line of seperation of state and church, and thats only beacause that gives people the CHOICE to do what they want, but you really don't have a choice without consequence. I don't know the background of an Athiest, but if they follow normal state law, they are following religious beliefs and law IMO.

 

[dogstar]

Originally Posted by shogun323
So then it must be impossible to be a Christian and be in the will of God and serve in the military, right?
.
Im not a military expert, but I beleive theres a rule that allows people who refuse to kill and still serve in other ways or to be honorably releast from the service if they do feel that that can not kill because of religon, mental breakdown, ect.
There are Clergy and Preist, ect, that serve. I guess some of them may not wish to kill, again IDK, their choice too.
Someone like Phixer might can answer that. Every person would have to make that choice reguardless of whatever name you place on your/their religon. Each person that calls themselves a Christian would have to make that choice themselve, the way they beleive, and be up to God and Christ as to rather they truely are or not.....

 

[phixer]

Interpretation of religion skews this. If all laws are based on religion the athiest isnt following them because of religion (although thats what its based on) because he has none. He is following them because he has to based on the consequences of breaking it.
So it becomes a question of why. Back to the original quote.
"IMO. thats why it has to do with religion"
For the Athiest the law may have to do with religion but the reason he follows it isnt.
Many laws are based without religious influence, Roe vs Wade for example.

 

[dogstar]

Originally Posted by Lubeck
Just to be clear, STATE has adopted and altered MANY religion laws and rules/ideas. I agree with what you say about differences but in general ALL religions feed off each other and still have simialar ideals. IMO, there is a fine line of seperation of state and church, and thats only beacause that gives people the CHOICE to do what they want, but you really don't have a choice without consequence. I don't know the background of an Athiest, but if they follow normal state law, they are following religious beliefs and law IMO.
This I generaly agree, but ones faith should prevail over or guide their actions....If a State requires someone to do something that is against their religon, then they should refuse...I/my religon does not allow me '' to sin to save my skin ''....some might. Islam allows this under sertain circustances, Im not a Muslim and Im not knocking it, just an example, this is why some of them wage/justfy jihad (sp). Again each person has to deside how they practice their faith.
I understand that a death penalty is a Goverment law that and someone has to pull the switch....if its against someones religon to kill then they should refuse to be the one to do it...It does not mean that they feel its OK to murder or whatever crime was commited to have a death sentance....Its just that they/I dont feel any killing is justfied.
Its a religon..those who dont have the same religon may not understand, and I understand that...But I have to speak against it when I can...because I feel thats what God wishes...

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by Dogstar
Im not a military expert, but I beleive theres a rule that allows people who refuse to kill and still serve in other ways or to be honorably releast from the service if they do feel that that can not kill because of religon, mental breakdown, ect.
There are Clergy and Preist, ect, that serve. I guess some of them may not wish to kill, again IDK, their choice too.
Someone like Phixer might can answer that. Every person would have to make that choice reguardless of whatever name you place on your/their religon. Each person that calls themselves a Christian would have to make that choice themselve, the way they beleive, and be up to God and Christ as to rather they truely are or not.....
Conciencious objection, yeah can be a hard choice for some. I always looked at the profession as one of protecting the innocent by any means necessary. Unfortunately often times evil dosent negotiate and only understands the language of war. God gave us freewill knowing this would happen. Sad but true IMO.

 

[dogstar]

Originally Posted by Phixer
Conciencious objection, yeah can be a hard choice for some. I always looked at the profession as one of protecting the innocent by any means necessary. Unfortunately often times evil dosent negotiate and only understands the language of war. God gave us freewill knowing this would happen. Sad but true IMO.
I appreciate that...I understand that....
I understand war and warfare and why many fight. I understand patriotisom and country and protecting the people. I do. I understand why nations go to war and why nations have armies.
But ' I ' dont ask you to do what ' I ' see as sacrificeing your soul to safe my flesh. I love your soul more than your flesh. Again, one/you may not understand..I dont hate you for this, This is my religon,
I am an Americian. I dont like to see Americans die any more than those girls or a muslum or a Jew. BUT, God is my King of kings and Heaven is my country and it is him that I serve first.
This has been a nice conversation from most and I have been glad to join in...I dont wish to continue the topic war or of a near impossible task of explaining religons out of respect for those girls and their families and their religon. They have asked also that people dont hate this guy and to ask for God to forgive him. I dont think he will though. Nor will most here.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by shogun323
So then it must be impossible to be a Christian and be in the will of God and serve in the military, right?
No, not at all. War can be completely justified.
You can oppose the death penalty and justify war.

 

[petieaztec]

imconfused please explain, mr. journey.

 

[swlover]

I have a simple question for all those who say they wouldn't take a life because of their religous beliefs...is this a without a doubt, under no circumstances NO? Or is there a fine line? Like kill or be killed situation? Lets put this in perspective, and please don't quote the bible on me, I'm speaking from one human being to another, your inner most self. I've asked this before and got no answer, maybe trying to dodge the question?

 

[alyssia]

Originally Posted by swlover
I have a simple question for all those who say they wouldn't take a life because of their religous beliefs...is this a without a doubt, under no circumstances NO? Or is there a fine line? Like kill or be killed situation? Lets put this in perspective, and please don't quote the bible on me, I'm speaking from one human being to another, your inner most self. I've asked this before and got no answer, maybe trying to dodge the question?

I would like to hear the answer to this as well. Kill or be killed: what would you do? I know if my life or my children's lives were in danger I would fight to the death, whether it be my death or the person attacking me.

 

[1journeyman]

Ok, speaking for myself...
There is a difference between opposing the death penalty and "never killing".
I'm for locking a person away and making sure they can never harm anyone again. Ever. No outside contact. If they are a monster then treat them like one.
War? Wars can be neccessary and justified. In fact, I'd argue that the US involvement in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Pres. Reagan bombing Libya, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, and even Iraq today have been neccessary and morally "just". In fact I'm even fine with the Panama and Grenada actions.
If some night I wake up to the sound of an intruder you can bet they are going to meet me and my .40 cal. Will I pull the trigger if I am threatened? Sure. Otherwise we'll just sit and wait for the police. Would I kill to protect myself, my friends, family, innocent bystanders, etc.? Sure.
I hope that explains the difference. I don't believe the death penalty really deters crime. I think our society has reached a point where life is considered so cheap that criminals don't care (or they don't think they'll get caught).
The difference is that once we have a criminal caught, why kill them? Is it neccessary at that point? I don't believe so. I think death and the appeals process gives a criminal a sense of finality that their victims didn't get.
Lock them away and let them stare at the walls for 100 years contemplating the evil in their soul. To me that's a more fitting punishment.

 

[windmill]

This happens all the time. It's the way the world works.
People that aren't out to harm anyone in anyway, shape, or form always get the shitty end of the stick. People that have a realistic perspective of life, like these amish folk, try to isolate themselves from all the horrible crap "normal" people do on a daily basis. They lead a simple life where they each respect and honor each-other, they do this in isolation because they know other "normal" people won't or aren't likely extend them the same courtesy. And even if the vast majority were to extend the same courtesy, you'd still have some slimy shitball minority out there to negate all the good things.

 

[dogstar]

Originally Posted by swlover
I have a simple question for all those who say they ...is this a without a doubt, Like kill or be killed situation? Lets put this in perspective, and please don't quote the bible on me, I'm speaking from one human being to another, your inner most self. I've asked this before and got no answer, maybe trying to dodge the question?
For someone to say '' wouldn't take a life because of their religous beliefs '' Is your simple answer.....to help you understand, I would add '' God willing....."
(without a doubt,)... again, God willing.
(under no circumstances NO? Or is there a fine line?)..... Not in Gods eyes.
(Lets put this in perspective, and please don't quote the bible on me, I'm speaking from one human being to another, your inner most self)....Well, without explaining the religion or quoteing the Bible, you hit on it yourself in your post you refered to.......so Ill say it this way, I am no longer an animal. I no longer fight/think like one. I fight a new fight, for a new prize. No one can fight this fight for me but myself......

 

[alyssia]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Ok, speaking for myself...
There is a difference between opposing the death penalty and "never killing".
I'm for locking a person away and making sure they can never harm anyone again. Ever. No outside contact. If they are a monster then treat them like one.
War? Wars can be neccessary and justified. In fact, I'd argue that the US involvement in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Pres. Reagan bombing Libya, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, and even Iraq today have been neccessary and morally "just". In fact I'm even fine with the Panama and Grenada actions.
If some night I wake up to the sound of an intruder you can bet they are going to meet me and my .40 cal. Will I pull the trigger if I am threatened? Sure. Otherwise we'll just sit and wait for the police. Would I kill to protect myself, my friends, family, innocent bystanders, etc.? Sure.
I hope that explains the difference. I don't believe the death penalty really deters crime. I think our society has reached a point where life is considered so cheap that criminals don't care (or they don't think they'll get caught).
The difference is that once we have a criminal caught, why kill them? Is it neccessary at that point? I don't believe so. I think death and the appeals process gives a criminal a sense of finality that their victims didn't get.
Lock them away and let them stare at the walls for 100 years contemplating the evil in their soul. To me that's a more fitting punishment.

If only the criminals were truly locked away and isolated. But they have TV's, books, recreation time, etc. It's bull.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by alyssia
If only the criminals were truly locked away and isolated. But they have TV's, books, recreation time, etc. It's bull.
I totally agree. Several posts ago I pointed out that prisoners are afforded way too many privileges.

 

[swlover]

Originally Posted by Dogstar
For someone to say '' wouldn't take a life because of their religous beliefs '' Is your simple answer.....to help you understand, I would add '' God willing....."
(without a doubt,)... again, God willing.
(under no circumstances NO? Or is there a fine line?)..... Not in Gods eyes.
(Lets put this in perspective, and please don't quote the bible on me, I'm speaking from one human being to another, your inner most self)....Well, without explaining the religion or quoteing the Bible, you hit on it yourself in your post you refered to.......so Ill say it this way, I am no longer an animal. I no longer fight/think like one. I fight a new fight, for a new prize. No one can fight this fight for me but myself......
I am no longer an animal. Really I think there are some scientists and biologists who would disagree, and it's in your human nature to fight..I'm sorry but your instincts would kick in, no doubt in my mind. I'm not anyone who would hurt another living thing, but if it came down to it..you bet your butt I would! As far as living in prison for the rest of their lives...there are too many things that could set a criminal free on technecalities, or they say he's rehabilitated and appeals come up, he gets a new lawyer, lawyer finds a loop hole, the scum is out and commits another murder/----...this sort of thing happens all the time. I say make the punishment fit the crime...you take someones life, ---- and torture the family of the victom gets a say so in punishment...no 10 yrs on death row...We need an express lane! Sorry this is MY opinion and I am entitled to it, I respect yours.

 

[dogstar]

Originally Posted by swlover
I am no longer an animal. Really I think there are some scientists and biologists who would disagree, and it's in your human nature to fight..I'm sorry but your instincts would kick in, no doubt in my mind. I'm not anyone who would hurt another living thing, but if it came down to it..you bet your butt I would! As far as living in prison for the rest of their lives...there are too many things that could set a criminal free on technecalities, or they say he's rehabilitated and appeals come up, he gets a new lawyer, lawyer finds a loop hole, the scum is out and commits another murder/----...this sort of thing happens all the time. I say make the punishment fit the crime...you take someones life, ---- and torture the family of the victom gets a say so in punishment...no 10 yrs on death row...We need an express lane! Sorry this is MY opinion and I am entitled to it, I respect yours.
I dont understand how you can think you could know what I would do.......... :thinking:
'' I'm not anyone who would hurt another living thing, but if it came down to it..you bet your butt I would! '' :thinking: what part of this is true ?......
As for the rest.....vote, write your Congressmen, join an organization, the winds of change that blow across our country determines how the politicians write the laws within the Constitution......make yourself heard....
Dont be sorry for voiceing your opinions, you still have that right, as well as the religion you choose as well.