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lpuzon
Guest
bump
It's true... a reef safe ich med that actually works!
- Thread starter crimzy
- Start date
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lpuzon
Guest
just an update. my bicolor angel died this am.
saltn00b
Active Member
I havent really read this whole thing but from the sound of it you combined a couple of treatments with hypo - i found you really cant do that, it is somewhat stressful and yet stress-relieving for a fish at the same time, but if you add another treatment to it i fear it becomes too much for the fish to handle...
if you didnt do that than escuse me but i was feeling lazy today
if you didnt do that than escuse me but i was feeling lazy today
dc-fish-e
New Member
Man after reading al lthese threads, this Beth chick thinks she is the end all..........let people try what they feel is best. No need to insult them and when they are in need of solutions mock them.........let them read and find whats best. Low medication levels for people whom cant catch all the fish or remove everything to a QT tank or drop the salinity levels to low levels, harming the inverts is all they have. The hobby is expensive..........stuff happens. Good luck.
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stevenpro
Guest
I was not particularly impressed by the reef-safe claims of Stop Parasite in some testing I did. I wrote an article about that experiment, but I don't think I am permitted to post the link to it. But, anyone interested should be able to find it online.
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stevenpro
Guest
If someone I knew had an ich problem and refused to remove the fish for copper, hyposalinity, or tank transfer, I would lean more towards UV, ozone, garlic, and beta glucan (along with a Cryptocaryon voodoo doll) before any of the reef-safe treatments I have seen to date. And then I would make fun of them mercilessly for having the money and room for a 300 gallon reef tank and not setting up a proper quarantine tank.
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stevenpro
Guest
I don't know if I buy completely into beta glucan (or garlic for that matter), but it can't hurt.
In and of itself, it might not hurt, but if it doesn't help either, you could end up with a tank of dead fish by relying on ineffective treatments. Not a whole lot better than "reef safe" meds, that are not reliable. Granted, beta glucan isn't likely going to adversely effect corals.
Garlic, at least, has some support for it on some limited level.
Garlic, at least, has some support for it on some limited level.
cwgibson
Member
im not saying hypo isnt time tested, but shouldnt you be open to new ideas beth?i assume this message board was established to help people with their sw tanks. therefore everthing should be given equal thought. if you havent used then dont knock it. if you have tried it then say it works or it doesnt. i have used it twice and in 2 different tanks with equal success. new technology comes about all the time in every aspect of life.it is not always good but it should always be considered. new technology usually makes things eaiser,but if it doesnt work its a hindrence.that is the world of science and a world we are all apart of. we are taking beautiful creatures from the ocean and trying to make them happy in our homes.if we wanted the best for them we would leave them be.but we are greedy and want them for our own. stop parasite has worked for me, all i can say for hypo is you take a saltwater fish and expose him to freshwater conditions and consider this humane and not stressfull?
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stevenpro
Guest
Originally Posted by cwgibson
all i can say for hypo is you take a saltwater fish and expose him to freshwater conditions and consider this humane and not stressfull?
It is not freshwater. It is brackish. And, you might be surprised at the salinity at in shore reefs right after a monsoon. Plus, if hyposalinity is inhumane or stressful (which I don't believe it is), what is the equivalent of spraying them with pepper spray?
all i can say for hypo is you take a saltwater fish and expose him to freshwater conditions and consider this humane and not stressfull?
It is not freshwater. It is brackish. And, you might be surprised at the salinity at in shore reefs right after a monsoon. Plus, if hyposalinity is inhumane or stressful (which I don't believe it is), what is the equivalent of spraying them with pepper spray?
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stevenpro
Guest
I am open to any idea on treating marine fish diseases. All anyone has to do is show me the studies proving that it works and is reef-safe. In the absence of this, I am going to be extremely skeptical of testimonials and anecdotal evidence.
cwgibson
Member
ok so we want to be specific. fine brackish,next time a monsoon comes through my tank ill check the salinity, but from what i keep hearing this low salinity kills inverts and live rock and corals.so we take the fish and put him/her in "brackish" conditions for several weeks in a qt tank.in my case i would have to take my 6 in blue hippo and put her in my 20g qt,sounds nice.why dont we all live in a closet for that amount of time,it could be fun. i dont know what to say people want studies and proof about something but when someone mentions a new product they bash it, so i dont know how you expect to get positive results. i mean what kind of proof would you like? what do you think studies are,they are the same as testimonials,but they come from scientist
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by cwgibson
ok so we want to be specific. fine brackish,next time a monsoon comes through my tank ill check the salinity, but from what i keep hearing this low salinity kills inverts and live rock and corals.so we take the fish and put him/her in "brackish" conditions for several weeks in a qt tank.in my case i would have to take my 6 in blue hippo and put her in my 20g qt,sounds nice.why dont we all live in a closet for that amount of time,it could be fun. i dont know what to say people want studies and proof about something but when someone mentions a new product they bash it, so i dont know how you expect to get positive results. i mean what kind of proof would you like? what do you think studies are,they are the same as testimonials,but they come from scientist
You've got to understand the position of some of us. We've spent years hearing about how this new product and that new product works, but inevitably, what we find out in the end is that it doesn't.
While I'm sure nobody on here would disagree that putting a large hippo like this into a 20 gallon tank is stressfull, you seem to be disregarding the possibility of any stress that simply dumping chemicals into your reef would cause your livestock, or the stress of potentially subjecting the fish to an extended infection until we eventually discover that the infection remains and hte medication in fact doesn't work.
At the end of the day, the reason these alleged reef safe medications (at least the ones I've seen so far) get good press is due to a general lack of understanding of the parasite and it's life cycle. People dump a chemcial into the tank and voila! The ich is gone! Therefore, it's a 100% effective, 100% reef safe cure! I'm sure nobody would disagree that this is flawed reasoning.
The only way to really know with any certainty that a medication is effective is though a solid, time tested reputation by large numbers of people, to reduce the margin of error introduced by inexperienced or naive aquarists (not saying that's what we have here). Until then, this is just like anything else that has a mythical quality to it. For example, there are tons of products on the Internet that claim that they can dramatically increase your gas mileage. For the most (or all) part, they have been debunked as scams. So if someone were to come along and claim that a particular gadget really works, you'd expect him to be met with a certain amount of skepticism, most likely regarding how he tested, how long he tested, and overall what makes him so sure it really works.
The people on this board who are asking questions here are people who have seen mega-dollar reef systems destroyed by someone who was suckered by one of these "miracle cures." All they are looking out for is the people on here who might believe such a claim as this thread's title without an understanding of the risks and without realizing that inadequate testing may have been performed.
By your logic and very admission, we should just dump some new product with boistrous claims into our reef systems and see for ourselves before we bash it... I can't speak for anyone else on there but I can say straight out that I'm going to wait for studies and real testing in controlled conditions by people who aren't in the pockets of the companies making the products before I do that. A few people that claim it works when the ich could very well have just fallen off on it's own is not enough proof for me.
ok so we want to be specific. fine brackish,next time a monsoon comes through my tank ill check the salinity, but from what i keep hearing this low salinity kills inverts and live rock and corals.so we take the fish and put him/her in "brackish" conditions for several weeks in a qt tank.in my case i would have to take my 6 in blue hippo and put her in my 20g qt,sounds nice.why dont we all live in a closet for that amount of time,it could be fun. i dont know what to say people want studies and proof about something but when someone mentions a new product they bash it, so i dont know how you expect to get positive results. i mean what kind of proof would you like? what do you think studies are,they are the same as testimonials,but they come from scientist
You've got to understand the position of some of us. We've spent years hearing about how this new product and that new product works, but inevitably, what we find out in the end is that it doesn't.
While I'm sure nobody on here would disagree that putting a large hippo like this into a 20 gallon tank is stressfull, you seem to be disregarding the possibility of any stress that simply dumping chemicals into your reef would cause your livestock, or the stress of potentially subjecting the fish to an extended infection until we eventually discover that the infection remains and hte medication in fact doesn't work.
At the end of the day, the reason these alleged reef safe medications (at least the ones I've seen so far) get good press is due to a general lack of understanding of the parasite and it's life cycle. People dump a chemcial into the tank and voila! The ich is gone! Therefore, it's a 100% effective, 100% reef safe cure! I'm sure nobody would disagree that this is flawed reasoning.
The only way to really know with any certainty that a medication is effective is though a solid, time tested reputation by large numbers of people, to reduce the margin of error introduced by inexperienced or naive aquarists (not saying that's what we have here). Until then, this is just like anything else that has a mythical quality to it. For example, there are tons of products on the Internet that claim that they can dramatically increase your gas mileage. For the most (or all) part, they have been debunked as scams. So if someone were to come along and claim that a particular gadget really works, you'd expect him to be met with a certain amount of skepticism, most likely regarding how he tested, how long he tested, and overall what makes him so sure it really works.
The people on this board who are asking questions here are people who have seen mega-dollar reef systems destroyed by someone who was suckered by one of these "miracle cures." All they are looking out for is the people on here who might believe such a claim as this thread's title without an understanding of the risks and without realizing that inadequate testing may have been performed.
By your logic and very admission, we should just dump some new product with boistrous claims into our reef systems and see for ourselves before we bash it... I can't speak for anyone else on there but I can say straight out that I'm going to wait for studies and real testing in controlled conditions by people who aren't in the pockets of the companies making the products before I do that. A few people that claim it works when the ich could very well have just fallen off on it's own is not enough proof for me.