Latest Obama Spin

[kogle]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2734481
I agree that is a parent’s responsibility to raise their kids. I think your statement that a person shouldn't have kids till they can afford to put them in a better district is borderline elitist. Why not take it a step further and say we should enact legislation banning anyone who makes under 45k a year from having kids?
Will also throw this out there. There are many people who have kids who are terrible parents (for what ever reason) and as a society it is our duty to make sure these kids don't fall through the cracks. These kids are the future of our country and we need to make sure they get the education, health care and well being they deserve.
I don't agree with this at all. If you chose to have kids raise them right. Do the right things, don't be a loser and ignore their needs. I've got a really good parent and a really bad parent. And YES, it is their fault. My good parent walked through fire to make sure I knew right from wrong, the bad one just disappeared. IT IS NOT the responsibility of everyone else to make up for shortcomings of others.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/2733427
Germans consume more beer and stronger beer than any other counrty per person, thats a fact not an opinion. every country has natural disasters idiot! most of the countries that lead in life expectancy are in southeast asia you think they dont have typhoons, earthquakes, etc.. the Germans French and Italians all have poor diets. sausages, cheeses, pasta, and all accompianed by alcohol! in Germany there are beer machines in factories! like we have pop machines! you can get a bottle of beer in the cafeteria or hallway at work. fact! same in Holland, Switzerland, etc..
Unemployment were not in the top 50, fact! doesnt matter about the wage it's irrelevant. you wanna mention mexican migrant workers who take jobs no american would do. they come across the border work corporate fields and then go home ( mostly) the money they make in a season can take care of thier families for a year. and for them 14 hours a day in the field is easy work. India, China, and Pakistan has seen there economy boom, job growth in those countries have grown while ours has declined, fact! outsourcing alone has created thousands of jobs in Pakistan and India. the facts are that American businesses manufacturing facilities are in Mexico, Tiawan, Vietnam, or other 3rd world country and thier customer service is in Pakistan or India.
The Germans may out rank us in litres consumed per year by an individual. U.S. 8 litres per year, Germans 12 litres per year. Having LIVED in Germany 6 years I have sen first hand how alcohol is consumed there. It is NOT in a manner to become drunk as it is here in the U.S. nor is it in a short perios of time such as a weekend. The drink a beer with most every meal. This is not done here. The keep their alcohol consumption to a minimum so as not to become drunk. This is not done here. In the U.S. 75% of our alcohol consumption occurs in two days. In Germany 75% of their alcohol consumption is done over the course of the week.
Is their health factored by how they drink? Not as much as how Americans drink. The more you drink in one sitting the more permanent damage you do to yourself. 1-2 drinks a day in moderation is NOT (medically proven) going to have the same severe effects on health as weekend drinking for drunkenness of 8-12 drinks in a 24 hour period as Americans do.
Go back to school and learn a bit about health and the effects of alcohol then comeback here and try to tell us their drinking manners are worse than ours. Yet their health is better. As I stated, their Average life expectancy is not much higher than ours and they do not have the natural disasters we do......When was the last natural disaster in Germany? Oh yeah 1938, it was named Hitler.
Like I stated before our unemployment rate is LOWER than every other country that YOU mentioned that their government pays for healthcare and everything else. I don't care if we are in the top 40. Mexico has a lower number than us, as I said their people still come here to work. If Mexico's economy is booming they should have plenty of jobs instead of coming here. The reason they come here is Mexico does not pay squat. Neither does China, Neither does India.....Pay you less but give you healthcare is their motto......But this is what you have our country become.
Your problem is you can not look at the big picture and account for every other possible factor. Case in point, your life expectancy theory must be due to the Heathcare provided by the government. Nope it is a lot of things. And if you think Sausage (when made in Germany contains very little fat) cheese and pasta is bad food.....compare that to a greasy big mac or quarter lber with cheese from Mcdonalds and tell me the fat content and the calorie count....They don't even compare.
But please keep speaking about things you clearly have no knowledge about.
When I lived in Germany, I ate better there than here.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by KOgle
http:///forum/post/2734501
I don't agree with this at all. If you chose to have kids raise them right. Do the right things, don't be a loser and ignore their needs. I've got a really good parent and a really bad parent. And YES, it is their fault. My good parent walked through fire to make sure I knew right from wrong, the bad one just disappeared. IT IS NOT the responsibility of everyone else to make up for shortcomings of others.
I agree with this 100% and I think everyone would wish this was always the case. It's not, there are a lot of losers out there who have kids and many of them have multiple kids. I was blessed to have 2 great parents who were always there and still are if I need someone to talk to. Where we differ is that I think as a society it is our duty to help those kids who live in bad homes with bad parents and make sure they don't fall through the cracks. What do you think, should we just ignore these kids and turn a blind eye?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2734413
Its part of the problem..
Problem areas I see are:
1. Parenting
2. Absence of positive role models
3. Early childhood education - Vastly different in better schools vs poorer
- this sets standards for preparation and work habits
4. Lack of alternative/advanced educational programs such as Robotics, Theatre, Broadcast, among the many other options avail in better schools.
5. Better teachers go where there is better pay-- suburbs
6. lack of after school programs
7. Inner-city schools are behind pace of suburban schools in cirriculum.
- doesn't prepare kids for college.
8. the concentration on standardized tests
9. inadequate facilities and lack of modern books and computers.
10. Money
All the school issues (and not family issues) are addressed with vouchers which your party strongly opposes...

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2733919
I'm not sure what you are asking about, if their was anti-american sentiment or if you think I'm particularly abrasive.
It always helps when you know the language. But it was fine, I've made lifelong friends. It was VERY redeeming and satisfying. And a very life changing in my world views. I've never had a problem, but then I am brown, speak spanish, and except for my clothes you'd have never known I was an american. Even though spanish is a second language, most people thought I learned it as a second language from Portuguese. I never saw ANY anti-american sentiment. If anything, it was very pro-american. I heard, if only I could go the United States, I could really be something.
The lasting impression it has left me is the money here. When I lived and worked their I saw absolute poverty. The cars are all junkers, the people live off of dollars a week or month. I was in towns with no roads, literally no one with hot water sporadic electricity at best. Some of the place I went got totally washed away by mudslides a couple years ago. Their diets sucked, one trip I lived at a school for the nationals there. Ate in their lunch room. (I lost 40 pounds in 4 months too) When I got back to the states, and looked around and been amazed at what we have and take for granted.
That is why it really does bother me when I hear about how "hard" life is here in the USA. Or how much the USA sucks. There are over a billion people living with less than $1 a day. And they literally cannot no matter what they do get out of their situation. Then I hear people in the usa say oh I'm stuck, I can't succeed, or there is no good work here. And it really does annoy me because imo the only thing holding you down is your I can'ts. I'm a second gen american, my grandparents survived driving a truck then working a second job as a butcher. He got all four of his daughters into and through college. When I graduated last year, you know what he told me? (in spanish) Son you have a degree, and you speak the language of the successful, there is nothing you can't do.
But I do hope this answers your question if I didn't answer what you were wondering just lmk.

I actually admire you for doing work with those who are in need. I was more curious about the missionary side of it and how the locals respond when you are pushing a given religion. I know here in the states most people hate when Mormon missionaries show up at their door and they are not greeted fondly (I tend to have fun with them, but I'm twisted

Also, I wonder how most Americans would respond if Muslims showed up at their door?

 

[stdreb27]

I not a big fan of public education it is clearly lacking in a lot of areas, imo mostly because kids are lazy, and they are not promoting merit based evaluations on the kids. (One of the small reasons in support of standarized tests) However the cons far outweight the pros as far as that goes. Simply put money does not solve the problem. A good example of this is the DC school district, they put more $$ than anyone per student in their district. If you can't give a kid a good education with 35 to 40 grand. You don't need to be an educator. The real issue is content in the class rooms, and no accountability outside with the family. That is why you need to give people the option. Markets work, why not allow the creation of competition between schools. If a school starts losing money because enrollment drops because their school sucks and people have the option of leaving I think things would be better. Some schools will die, but overall education will improve.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2734520
I not a big fan of public education it is clearly lacking in a lot of areas, imo mostly because kids are lazy, and they are not promoting merit based evaluations on the kids. (One of the small reasons in support of standarized tests) However the cons far outweight the pros as far as that goes. Simply put money does not solve the problem. A good example of this is the DC school district, they put more $$ than anyone per student in their district. If you can't give a kid a good education with 35 to 40 grand. You don't need to be an educator. The real issue is content in the class rooms, and no accountability outside with the family. That is why you need to give people the option. Markets work, why not allow the creation of competition between schools. If a school starts losing money because enrollment drops because their school sucks and people have the option of leaving I think things would be better. Some schools will die, but overall education will improve.

Wow, I agree.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by KOgle
http:///forum/post/2734501
I don't agree with this at all. If you chose to have kids raise them right. Do the right things, don't be a loser and ignore their needs. I've got a really good parent and a really bad parent. And YES, it is their fault. My good parent walked through fire to make sure I knew right from wrong, the bad one just disappeared. IT IS NOT the responsibility of everyone else to make up for shortcomings of others.
if a child is disadvantaged doesn't mean that their needs are being ignored.. there is a variety of things that go into it and its not as simple as you would like to think... And it is societies role to help raise kids because they are the future of society... that is the problem with kids and people today... no one wants to bear resposibility... we have become so individualistic that we don't care about the large community.

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2734520
Markets work, why not allow the creation of competition between schools. If a school starts losing money because enrollment drops because their school sucks and people have the option of leaving I think things would be better. Some schools will die, but overall education will improve.
Because it doesn't work everywhere. Areas where there literally is just one middle or school for the entire county. Or basically you just end with some schools at are large enough to absorb the "bad kids." If local inner-city teachers can't get the kids on track, how is some semi-white collar with a masters in education going to get through to them?
I was always under the impression that having more schools, with small class sizes, so students get individual attention, was the best route?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2734512
All the school issues (and not family issues) are addressed with vouchers which your party strongly opposes...
No all the problems are not solved... because the problem of low quality schools still exist. I am not against vouchers on some level, but it doesn't take into account or provide a solution for these poor schools. Good schools and teachers need and should be available in inner city areas along with better early education. Students can succeed despite family issues and parenting is not the sole reason for poor schools...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2734545
Because it doesn't work everywhere. Areas where there literally is just one middle or school for the entire county. Or basically you just end with some schools at are large enough to absorb the "bad kids." If local inner-city teachers can't get the kids on track, how is some semi-white collar with a masters in education going to get through to them?
I was always under the impression that having more schools, with small class sizes, so students get individual attention, was the best route?
I agree... also the costs and effort of getting a student to school across town/county is often too much...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2734520
I not a big fan of public education it is clearly lacking in a lot of areas, imo mostly because kids are lazy, and they are not promoting merit based evaluations on the kids. (One of the small reasons in support of standarized tests) However the cons far outweight the pros as far as that goes. Simply put money does not solve the problem. A good example of this is the DC school district, they put more $$ than anyone per student in their district. If you can't give a kid a good education with 35 to 40 grand. You don't need to be an educator. The real issue is content in the class rooms, and no accountability outside with the family. That is why you need to give people the option. Markets work, why not allow the creation of competition between schools. If a school starts losing money because enrollment drops because their school sucks and people have the option of leaving I think things would be better. Some schools will die, but overall education will improve.
problem with empahasis of standardized tests.. is that teachers teach the test... and that's it.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2734481
I agree that is a parent’s responsibility to raise their kids. I think your statement that a person shouldn't have kids till they can afford to put them in a better district is borderline elitist. Why not take it a step further and say we should enact legislation banning anyone who makes under 45k a year from having kids?
Will also throw this out there. There are many people who have kids who are terrible parents (for what ever reason) and as a society it is our duty to make sure these kids don't fall through the cracks. These kids are the future of our country and we need to make sure they get the education, health care and well being they deserve.
How many times, in the SWF forums, have we told people they can't keep a Tang in a new, 20 gallon tank? Is that elitist? How many times have we told people to do water changes and properly feed their fish? Is that elitist?
Why is it, that we can tell people that they need to properly provide for a Tang but we can't say parents need to properly plan and care for their children? Where in the freakin world does the idea come from that parents aren't responsible to care for their kids?
Sorry, but it is NOT society's responsibility to raise your kids. This is absolutely, 100% false. It is your responsibility. Jmick, how many times have you argued that you don't want organized religion forced upon you or in the public square or schools. Yet, now you are arguing that society should be responsible for raising the children of our Nation?
Someone, please I beg you, show me where in the Constitution the Federal Government is mandated to raise and provide for the children of our Nation.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2734517
I actually admire you for doing work with those who are in need. I was more curious about the missionary side of it and how the locals respond when you are pushing a given religion. I know here in the states most people hate when Mormon missionaries show up at their door and they are not greeted fondly (I tend to have fun with them, but I'm twisted

Also, I wonder how most Americans would respond if Muslims showed up at their door?
As far as that goes, we were not going door to door knocking on doors. Most of what I did was logistical work organizing a trip from the base city to a more remote area. Along with food for about 50 to 100 for the week Americans, transportation for the nationals and Americans travelling from our location to whatever little town we were going to. Just all the stuff involved with having a couple hundred people basically camping out in some remote village. Along with medicine and medical supplies for the Doctors, dentists ect. Everything was per invitation, the national was not forced to listen to someone preach at him in order to receive medical attention. However the national was invited to stay for a service that night.
Where we were, a lot of them went, b/c it was the only thing to do in a town with no electricity. But in a town of 50 or 60 their would be 3 to 5 thousand show up over the course of 5 days.
In the town we were based out of, we did see some animosity but it was from the Catholic church due to doctrinal differences. But in the base city the organization I worked with sponsored a church, had an elementary school in English, and a bible school. I worked in the school teaching PE to American parents who were working there, and some of the more powerful national's kids who wanted their kids to learn in English and get an American education.
But it wasn't an in your face confrontational work like is so visible here. They offered needed services (like education) to the nationals, but did mention why they were really there.

In the USA you can't turn a corner without seeing some sort of church, mosque or some sort of temple. And overseas, this simply isn't the case. So to many people there it is something they've never head before. And have not been desensitized to the message.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2734553
problem with empahasis of standardized tests.. is that teachers teach the test... and that's it.
Playing devils advocate here.
But if the test were properly written so that the test was what a kid needed to have learned teaching to the test would be a good thing...
Besides isn't that what a teacher does teach something then test them on it? My experience in the YEARS in school

was a teacher with his test in hand teaching what he had put on a test for us to pass... All be it, these were some evil tests.
But don't get me wrong, the test sucks, and really hampers what a teacher can do since they HAVE to spend soo much time "teaching to the test." And the test in an of itself is flawed.

 

[1knight164]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2734554
How many times, in the SWF forums, have we told people they can't keep a Tang in a new, 20 gallon tank? Is that elitist? How many times have we told people to do water changes and properly feed their fish? Is that elitist?
Why is it, that we can tell people that they need to properly provide for a Tang but we can't say parents need to properly plan and care for their children? Where in the freakin world does the idea come from that parents aren't responsible to care for their kids?
Sorry, but it is NOT society's responsibility to raise your kids. This is absolutely, 100% false. It is your responsibility. Jmick, how many times have you argued that you don't want organized religion forced upon you or in the public square or schools. Yet, now you are arguing that society should be responsible for raising the children of our Nation?
Someone, please I beg you, show me where in the Constitution the Federal Government is mandated to raise and provide for the children of our Nation.
Agree!! I see way too many parents that treat school, even high school, as a daycare center and not get involved or even care what their kid is doing or learning in school.

 

[el guapo]

I am puzzled . . .
I say if lower class parents don't want to push their children to excel . Than so be it . We need a future generation that is not over educated and is the position to do the manual labor job . I am not saying this to sound elitist or racist . We complain about how immigrants come and take our jobs but then we turn right around and push our society to think they are above doing physical labor because its demeaning . I am sorry but your intelligence not just your education should determine your status in life. You can dump all the money you want into education and there are still going to be lazy worthless people that get pushed through the system . Having an education does not make one smart . If your to stupid to proper change and hand a bag of burgers out a window then you need to be out working in a field or digging a ditch . Then maybe these worthless bags of trash would be a little more willing to get involved and push their kids a little more . Rather than teaching the next generation that its ok to be lazy . Just sit around and collect a monthly check and let the government spend money on you that you don't deserve .

 

[el guapo]

Originally Posted by 1knight164
http:///forum/post/2734571
Agree!! I see way too many parents that treat school, even high school, as a daycare center and not get involved or even care what their kid is doing or learning in school.
Amen .

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2734563
Playing devils advocate here.
But if the test were properly written so that the test was what a kid needed to have learned teaching to the test would be a good thing...
Besides isn't that what a teacher does teach something then test them on it? My experience in the YEARS in school

was a teacher with his test in hand teaching what he had put on a test for us to pass... All be it, these were some evil tests.
But don't get me wrong, the test sucks, and really hampers what a teacher can do since they HAVE to spend soo much time "teaching to the test." And the test in an of itself is flawed.
a test is not a true measure of intelligence... and teaching the test doesn't prepare students about life or problem solving. I am not opposed to tests, I think they need to be part of schooling... however its much more to education. Tests and achieving on test is what largely gives districts the $ they need.
Also tests are flawed culturally..

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2734602
a test is not a true measure of intelligence... and teaching the test doesn't prepare students about life or problem solving. I am not opposed to tests, I think they need to be part of schooling... however its much more to education. Tests and achieving on test is what largely gives districts the $ they need.
Also tests are flawed culturally..
Schools aren't a measure of intelligence nor should they be.
Culture shouldn't be in schools anyway, they should be about math, science, grammer, history (well that does have culture involved) government, economics...