lets here it for bush

[cantbstopd]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Proud to be a Texan neighbor.
That doesn't discredit my posts, however. I've asked specific questions that have failed to be answered by the critics.
My "love" for the president is grossly overshadowed by many folks hate of him.

I ment no disrepect, i'm just giving a different point of view.... i live in florida and i would be of the same opinion if my ( lord help us....) present governor, Jeb Bush became president some god forsaken day.... :help: :help: . I really didnt like the first Bush, but if i had to choose then id for sure go with the first....I just dont like the way they "run the ship", is all im saying....

 

[oceanists]

Originally Posted by team2jndd
With what money? You arent old enough for working papers?
I dont understand why your are bashing this kid.
What has he really said that was wrong , I agree with him 75% of the teachers out there today are morons , and if i were to pick public school or home schooling , it would be home school mixed with recreation.
You can earn money without working papers..... Chores.... mowing the neighborhoods lawns.... I used to make 250 a month doing lawns alone. So your argument isnt really all that valid.
BTW how old are you....
Get off his back.

 

[oceanists]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Cool business, glad it is working out for you.
About your peers, see Sharkboy, that's my point. Your generation is more dependent on their parents than ever before. Add that to the fact that they watch less news and know less about world facts and in no way do you have "independence".
Im not sure I fully agree here ..... alot of the news is bogus. And parents of all generations took care of their children equally whether it be that new shiny red bike back in 1960 that was useed to get around or the ford mustangs that are being purchased now.
And if you want the truth its not that kids arent more dependant nowadays its more so the parents needing to always provide for their 18 year old babies..... I talk to 30 moms a day that call to pay their "adult childs bills (some in the 30 age range)" and they get extremely upset when I cant talk about the account because "they are their babies". Well if you would have popped the teet out of his mouth at age 16 your child would be more responsible and he could call for him or herself.
I also believe female young adults have become way more self dependant than they were in past years.
But if your gonna say young adults arent dependent you should really be putting that aquare on the shoulders of the parents.

 

[oceanists]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Once again proving my point. The President haters would rather attack and flame than debate/look at facts/suggest alternatives.
Coke head? Did the President ever say he used illegal drugs? I know Senator Obama admitted using coke. I know Clinton admitted using marijuana but I'm unaware of President Bush admitting this or evidence of it. I look forward to your proof. I'M always willing to learn.
Why did we know "nothing" of Iraq? Could it be because they backed out of their treaty with us and refused total access to UN inspectors?
Why don't we have Bin Laden? Why don't you tell me? Do you have a better plan to get him?
I love all the liberals who say they "almost" moved out of the country. Heck, I almost built a time machine and jumped into the future when Clinton was elected....

But the role would be reversed if it were clinton in office or another democrat.

 

[phixer]

Much of my political education took place in areas like: Israel, Iraq, Dubai, the EAU, Oman, Turkey, Jebel-Ali, Saudi-Arabia (places like this) ... while on active duty. I consider myself fortunate because I got to experience first hand what many only read about or see on TV. It became clear how misguided the liberal media and professors like Ward Churchill really are.
College came afterwards for me and confirmed what I had been witness too for years. The problem with politics is that Politicians are crooks, plain and simple. They are out of touch care about one thing, power. I suppose it depends on what side of the fence your stood on but I simply cannot see how a president like Slick Willy

could be taken seriously. Then or now. I find the shots of him carrying a Bible around particularly amusing.

When it comes to illusions Houdini had nothing on Clinton.

 

[oceanists]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I'm going to need a better source than wikipedia.

But im sure Kenneth Starr was a good enough source for you when Clinton was in office

 

[oceanists]

Originally Posted by garnet13aj
The only way it would bother me would be if it affected his ability to think, but hey, you should be able to assess his ability to think before you vote for him, drugs or no drugs.

:O: even though im taking it probably in a way it wasnt meant .... I still like this

 

[oceanists]

Originally Posted by emmitt2
Yeah, i spin things

Keep ignoring that i keep saying he HAS ANSWERED THE QUESTION! He answers for the last 25 years but wont go further for, by his own words, "fear of sending kids the message that its ok to do what he did". And also that he "made some mistakes and learned from them" when asked about illegal drug use.
What could he possibly mean by that other than he used drugs more than 25 years ago??????
You know how selling a car after a hit and run is admitting guilt ..... so is answering a question without a simple no.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Oceanists
But im sure Kenneth Starr was a good enough source for you when Clinton was in office
Are you seriously comparing the two?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Oceanists
But if your gonna say young adults arent dependent you should really be putting that aquare on the shoulders of the parents.
I do blame the parents.
Sharkboy said his generation was very independent. I was correcting that perception.

 

[oceanists]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Are you seriously comparing the two?
c'mon journey Starr had it out for clinton in a big way
so yes I am

 

[emmitt2]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I agree.
I understand why he said what he did though, if he used illegal drugs. The office of the President holds tremendous authority. He didn't want kids to say "see, the President did it so it must be ok". Like I said earlier, I worked with teens for 13 years. I've heard the "president did it" argument for both marijuana and certain "other" activities involving Monica. Teens say "hey, the President did it and said it wasnt' --- so it must not be".
I gotta disagree with this a little. I think kids see that as him lying and think "well he did it and nothing bad happened and now hes the freaking president so why cant i?". To me, rather than say what he has if he did use(which i believe he did), he'd be better off saying "look, i did it but it was very stupid and it almost ruined my life and career but i got incredibly lucky that it didnt, dont be stupid and make the same mistake and risk ruining your life for nothing". I think that would have a stronger impact on young people.

 

[oceanists]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I do blame the parents.
Sharkboy said his generation was very independent. I was correcting that perception.
Yeah I find it hard for someone to say young teens are independent I agree there...100%

 

[ol'salty]

1st off, i am a huge supporter of our troops but not so much of the prez. I agree that the trigger has been pulled and there is no real easy way out. But if you just look at it (the war) economically, maybe it will get you thinking. If you had a fish outgrowing an aquarium, and it was going to cost you 50,000 bucks for the one he needed, (just to spice it up lets say you are unemployed but can get financed) would you risk losing everything and go for it or just get rid of the fish? Now that your thinking about it, could we as a country lose everything we are trying to protect? We are going so deep in the hole on this war and are supposedly going to be in it for another 15 years. At what point could our debtors say allright payup or get out? So is it possible that we could be handing away our govt? I know it was said earlier you aren't have to learn a new language, and you have the freedom to type this; well is it possible that we are even slightly risking it all by doing this war?
I am in no way trying to start any arguments. I am really just asking a somewhat hypothetical question.
I also agree that anyone in junior high or high school (at least 90%) who is not on the debate team and is arguing either way has to have some type of influence. Even if the enfluence is healthy facts, it had to come from somewhere. Because even the facts are commonly told in context. Mo matter if they are intended to be or not because the person telling them has an opinion. And if you researched some of this stuff to add to this thread then i commend you and maybe this thread does have a silver lining.
Also, putting it into the whole aquarium "lingo", just walking away from iraq now would be like stocking an aquarium and unplugging it and walking away. It would be very hearltess to say the least.
I have no answers of what the US needs to do to get out of this in the easiest way, and think it is too late for any easy options.
I believe the start of this thread said he commended the prez for staying the course; well at this point that is all he can do...right?
Thanks for reading my .02

 

[moneyman]

Good point ol'salty's. The U.S. just cant pull the plug.
It is easy to bash the man now knowing the facts. What should we do moving forward? Come up with a good pull-out plan, and I'll vote for you

 

[phixer]

Of course we must stay the course. The only people who want us to run away are the ones sitting on the sidelines and havent a clue of what is really happening. They think if we play nice so will the bad guys. If we left tomorrow the insurgency would quickly consume an already fragile and unstable government and Iraq would suffer the same fate as Afghanistan which would threaten our security even more. This is a bad situation but we have no alternative but to see this through. The fix, raise the awareness and convince the rest of the world that terrorism is a global problem and that it is in each countries best interest to send aid to Iraq so it isnt the US who bears the brunt of the load.

 

[garnet13aj]

I don't like the term "stay the course" but even though I don't think we should have gotten into the war, I agree that we can't just pack up and leave. I do believe we need to go in a different direction though. I think we need to seriously think about how we can give Iraq the equipment and training to stand once again on their own and we don't have to be lording over them whispering to them what they should and shouldn't do and allowing them to be their own country instead of basically a territory of the US.

 

[zman1]

We all know the reasons we are in that part of the world, was because of the communist threat and OIL. We will never leave Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iraq. So the political parties can play all their positioning games and reversal of positioning games about withdrawal all they want. Without OIL money, these countries would be having their tribal and religious wars using Scimitars and four legged ATVs.
Currently it's in our interest to be there.....
Forgot - Heroin - For Afghanistan

 

[nigerbang]

"Producers in the Persian Gulf actually make up less than a fifth of all imports and just 11% of total US consumption, according to the US Energy Department. "
19%....wow Why does everyone think the the Gulf is the only place we get oil from...Its insane...Yes we get oil from the middle east..., and canada, south america, mexico..

 

[ol'salty]

I don't think it has a whole lot to do with how much we get there though. You put (just stating facts) one of the world's top producers in oil in jepardy and the price goes up arround the world no matter where you get it from. At this point we could stop getting oil from the middle east and the prices would still be up because of the war. So if anyone in govt that is making decisions is making money (hypothetical) off of the oil prices then that isn't right and in my mind is way worse than anything commonly known done by anyone in office.
So i'll propose another question. If "they" found undeniable proof that Bush was making money off of the oil price increases, would that be the unforgivable crime? I am kinda asking the supporters on this one. Just wondering.