Liberal Logic - AZ out China still alright with em...

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3270275
Yep, and I went to school with a dark skinned, dark eyed Mexican named George Burns. It's just easier to claim every solution is based on racism that to fix the problem
Again though, it would have been nice if those that wrote the Arizona law where not linked pretty directly to white supremist groups. I don't care if a white supremist has a good idea or not, they are a cancer on this country that seems to be growing again and I pretty much have a Blues Brother attitude towards what should be done with them.
Fishtaco

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3270282
Again though, it would have been nice if those that wrote the Arizona law where not linked pretty directly to white supremist groups. I don't care if a white supremist has a good idea or not, they are a cancer on this country that seems to be growing again and I pretty much have a Blues Brother attitude towards what should be done with them.
Fishtaco
According to a few leftist wacko websites...

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3270307
According to a few leftist wacko websites...
Notice I did not use the word conservative in the above post, and if you remember even Darth agreed that there was some shadyness going on.
Fishtaco

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3270282
Again though, it would have been nice if those that wrote the Arizona law where not linked pretty directly to white supremist groups. I don't care if a white supremist has a good idea or not, they are a cancer on this country that seems to be growing again and I pretty much have a Blues Brother attitude towards what should be done with them.
Fishtaco
So if a white supremicist came up with a cure for skin cancer we shouldn't use it because of who came up with the idea? Thats kinda dumb. If the guy in question really is a supremicist the voters in his district will deal with him. But of course if you are going to accept the evidence this guy is a supremicists then you must also believe Obama is an Anti-American, Marxist terrorist based on the same evidence.

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3270325
So if a white supremicist came up with a cure for skin cancer we shouldn't use it because of who came up with the idea? Thats kinda dumb. If the guy in question really is a supremicist the voters in his district will deal with him. But of course if you are going to accept the evidence this guy is a supremicists then you must also believe Obama is an Anti-American, Marxist terrorist based on the same evidence.
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.

Fishtaco

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3270330
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.

Fishtaco
I think them mushrooms you folks pick in the wilds of Oregon aren't the variety you can find in the grocery store.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3270324
Notice I did not use the word conservative in the above post, and if you remember even Darth agreed that there was some shadyness going on.
Fishtaco
Yes I too believe everything I read on the interwebz. Considering some of the stuff that was blatently made up, (see dan rather) it doesn't have to be true for the drive by media to blast something. If this had any merit, this would have been echoed from the white house coast to coast. This would fit their template to a T racist Nazi lover writes bill to hunt down brown people... You know it and so do I...

 

[mantisman51]

The law was co-written with a Hispanic lawyer. I will track down his name ASAP. He was interviewed on Arizona Illustrated shortly after it was signed into law. A far-left hate group that has openly supported amnesty for illegals calls Kobach "far right". Without parsing words FishTaco, do you agree with deporting illegals?

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3270391
The law was co-written with a Hispanic lawyer. I will track down his name ASAP. He was interviewed on Arizona Illustrated shortly after it was signed into law. A far-left hate group that has openly supported amnesty for illegals calls Kobach "far right". Without parsing words FishTaco, do you agree with deporting illegals?
Without parsing words I don't support what Russel Pierce is doing when he has the past he does.
I do support deporting illegals, but honestly with the current system including the new Arizona law good luck with that.
I would like to see a one-strike and you are in jail policy for business owners who hire illegals and want to see the border security beefed-up. That would do far more to solve the problem IMHO.
I don't see why I am the bad guy here because I said this whole thing would be easier to approve of if Russel Pierce was not involved and the motivations could not be questioned.
Fishtaco

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3270340
I think them mushrooms you folks pick in the wilds of Oregon aren't the variety you can find in the grocery store.
I'm going to have to plead the 5th on that one........

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3270424
I'm going to have to plead the 5th on that one........
Yeah, I've been to Oregon LOL!

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3270421
Without parsing words I don't support what Russel Pierce is doing when he has the past he does.
I do support deporting illegals, but honestly with the current system including the new Arizona law good luck with that.
I would like to see a one-strike and you are in jail policy for business owners who hire illegals and want to see the border security beefed-up. That would do far more to solve the problem IMHO.
I don't see why I am the bad guy here because I said this whole thing would be easier to approve of if Russel Pierce was not involved and the motivations could not be questioned.
Fishtaco
. You know I find this point a bit ironic (well not that I've heard it from you, you just reminded me). But the liberals are ok with illegals getting free govt services, like healthcare, welfare etc. But let them get a job and not be dependant on government, and wham the go after legal business owner..

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3270430
. You know I find this point a bit ironic (well not that I've heard it from you, you just reminded me). But the liberals are ok with illegals getting free govt services, like healthcare, welfare etc. But let them get a job and not be dependant on government, and wham the go after legal business owner..
Well, I'm not really okay with them getting free services, but none of this would be an issue if business owners did not hire them because they would have no reason to be here unless they used legal means to get a green card and a job and a well protected border would solve a lot of the drug problems and crime.
I'm not sure why you would defend these legal business owners, they willingly break the law to make more money by paying below living wages, they are no heroes IMHO.
Fishtaco

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3270434
Well, I'm not really okay with them getting free services, but none of this would be an issue if business owners did not hire them because they would have no reason to be here unless they used legal means to get a green card and a job and a well protected border would solve a lot of the drug problems and crime.
I'm not sure why you would defend these legal business owners, they willingly break the law to make more money by paying below living wages, they are no heroes IMHO.
Fishtaco
My solution is simple
1. Allow the IRS and social security administration to share information with the border patrol. It's a pretty good bet that if 15 people are working under a single number something is up.
2. Anyone can make a mistake. If an employer is caught with an illegal working for them that is a mistake. If they have more than one it's a pattern. Fine them 500.00 for the first, double the fine, PER PERSON. if there are two, triple it if there are 3 and so forth. That way you don't really hurt that person that didn't catch one or two but someone caught with 20 risks a 10,000.00 fine per person.
3. No public services to anyone without legal status. If someone shows up to the ER without proper insurance and ID call immigration before treatment starts but treat them, I aint totally heartless
4. Anyone who voluntarily comes forward and doesn't have any serious record gets a 5 year work visa that can be renewed as long as they have employment, have stayed out of trouble and have jumped into the rear of the line and started the process for citizenship.
5. Give the border patrol the authority to use deadly force to stop illegal border crossers. Publicize this new authority well in Mexico. I don't think we need to be shooting someone for sneaking in to pick fruit but if you can look and tell the difference between someone looking for a job and someone smuggling drugs or a Mexican Mafia member more power to ya.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3270434
Well, I'm not really okay with them getting free services, but none of this would be an issue if business owners did not hire them because they would have no reason to be here unless they used legal means to get a green card and a job and a well protected border would solve a lot of the drug problems and crime.
I'm not sure why you would defend these legal business owners, they willingly break the law to make more money by paying below living wages, they are no heroes IMHO.
Fishtaco
legal as in not an illegal immigrant. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm all for enforcing our laws, equally.
imo if the left had their way, which they do right now, you go after the illegals, you see the media and politicians create the PC response, which is oh hell no. The left tried to sneak in coverage for illegals in the health care bill. And provide for coverage in other social programs. The argument is enforcing our laws is racist and against the American ways (says the president who runs around criticizing America any chance he gets).
But an illegal gets a job, and they have no problem enforcing those laws, which goes after the person with legal immigration status, not the illegal...
Which i think shows the liberal's true intentions, get as many people on the government dole as possible, to ensure a voter base. It worked for African- Americans why not target the fast growing demographic next...

 

[geridoc]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3270430
. You know I find this point a bit ironic (well not that I've heard it from you, you just reminded me). But the liberals are ok with illegals getting free govt services, like healthcare, welfare etc. But let them get a job and not be dependant on government, and wham the go after legal business owner..
Why is it "liberals" who are OK with illegal immigrants getting free government services? Actually, it was the "conservative" SCOTUS who mandated this based on their reading of the Constitution. Just because you don't agree with something, don't assume that it is a "liberal" plot. Sometimes bad government is blind to the liberal-conservative axis, and is just plain old bad government!

 

[bionicarm]

Simple. Have the ranchers place signs all over their property like the one I have attached. Let the illegal border crossers decide if there are mines or not. I bet at least half wouldn't risk it. If they do, then simply drop a few mines in the ground, and when a couple of them lose a few body parts, I guarantee you they won't try a second time.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3270434
I'm not sure why you would defend these legal business owners, they willingly break the law to make more money by paying below living wages, they are no heroes IMHO.
Fishtaco
Bullshit. I am calling it. I am tired of hearing this. MOST Illegals working are doing so "legally". What do you need to provide when hired for a job. a drivers license/ID and a Green Card/social security card. Look at your Social security card. How hard is this to copy or reproduce? Most states willingly give illegals a driver's license. So how is this the fault of the business owner that UNKNOWINGLY is hiring these people.
In most cases The business owner does not know. Untill SS contacts them and informs them the SS# is incorrect. nd even at that point they are NOT allowed to fire these people. They have to give them 6 months to produce another number. When that is done, it can take 2 years for SS to contact them and inform them that number is wrong.
The only business owners that maybe "knowlingly" breaking these laws are our small time business contractors that need a day laborer for a day or two. aren't a whoile lot of legal citizens willing to hang out in a HD parking lot all day hoping a contractor needs someone to turn a cement mixer. You can't tell me 20 million illegals are employeed this way.
Instead of blaming us business owners, open your damn eyes and blame the laws and regulations that allow this to continue. We are not the ones knowingly employee illegals. 75% of the time the illegals have the needed documentation...it may be wrong, but we don't know that till the government tells us that and at that point we still can't do anything.
I really wish people that like to blame "business owners" for this problem actually took the time to understand business regulations and laws and how things truly operate.

 

[reefraff]

There are plenty of businesses who knowingly hire illegals too. thats why I think you have to attack all three sides of the problem, jobs, border and government services.

 

[fishtaco]

Bullshit. I am calling it. I am tired of hearing this. MOST Illegals working are doing so "legally". What do you need to provide when hired for a job. a drivers license/ID and a Green Card/social security card. Look at your Social security card. How hard is this to copy or reproduce? Most states willingly give illegals a driver's license. So how is this the fault of the business owner that UNKNOWINGLY is hiring these people.
In most cases The business owner does not know. Untill SS contacts them and informs them the SS# is incorrect. nd even at that point they are NOT allowed to fire these people. They have to give them 6 months to produce another number. When that is done, it can take 2 years for SS to contact them and inform them that number is wrong.
Thanks for chiming in Darth, but I don't agree at all and I tire of the conservative defense of capitalism doing no wrong no matter what the cost. Why don't you just call for the deregulation of hiring practices completely in this country, but don't cry to me when your employer figures out he can replace you with cheap labor and your out the door. Heck let's just go ahead and make 7 or 8 dollars an hour the average wage in the country while we are at it.
Your claim that business owners do not knowingly hire illegals is complete B.S. I guarantee if business owners start getting hammered for hiring illegals it will stop and magically they will be able to tell the difference between a legal worker and non-legal. Care to defend BP and Goldman Sachs while you are at. LOL
Fishtaco