Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

santamonica

Member
Updates/Reminders:
Nano scrubbers: In my last update, I said a coffee can would make a good nano scrubber. I meant a plastic coffee can.
Wattage: Your goal should be to get at least 0.5 watts of CFL (compact flourescent light) for each gallon of water, for medium filtering. For high filtering, get 1.0 watts per gallon. And don't use incadescent bulbs... they are much too hot and use too much power. The biggest CFL bulbs you should use should be 45W. If you need more, use extra bulbs, not a bigger bulb.
Be sure not to run bulbs 24 hours.
Be careful of overflowing skimmers; there is a lot of ammonia in that skimmate. A scrubber will help eat that ammonia if it overflows.
If you have cyano on your screen, you need more flow and/or more light.
If you smell any kind of "algae" smell while the scrubber is running, you need more flow.
If your tank has gotten rid of the nuisance algae, but cyano seems to be increasing, this is normal. Cyano does not eat nitrate and phosphate like algae does, so after your scrubber has starved the nuisance algae, the cyano has more room to grow. But if you keep your scrubber running strong and proper, the cyano will fade too.
If you have rubbery green algae, it means the flow is getting cut off and the algae is baking.
The best current spectrum for the bulb is 3000K (550 nm). This is yellowish-greenish, and it fits right in the middle of the red and the blue peaks of photosynthesis:



Pipe: Slots deliver much more water than drilled holes. Keep this in mind when figuring out how much flow you need.
Sump growth: Some people have open bulbs which light up the sump, and they are growing algae there. You don't want this to happen, so you need to use reflectors, or even foil, to block the light.
Coralline: Since phosphate will slow down coralline growth, you will start seeing more coralline as your phosphate drops in your water.
Advanced DIY trick: For those who can build such a thing, if you could build a top-off device which would shut off the flow to the screen, and then run your FW top-off water on it, then switch back to the regular flow, you would be able to extend the time between cleanings because the pods would be kept in control.
Dead fish: Scrubbers handle dead fish wonderfully; since ammonia is algae's favorite food, when a fish dies the algae will consume as much of the ammonia as it can, which could save your tank if the fish dies overnight. A skimmer, however, does not remove ammonia at all.
What equipment comes first: With regard to scrubbers, here are a few points to consider when planning which device should come before which other device (if you use them):
Skimmer: It should come before the scrubber and after the display, so that it does not remove the pods that come from the scrubber (if you need pods).
UV: Also should come before the scrubber and after the display, for same reason.
Mechanical filters/socks: Same as UV and skimmer. These trap food and pods (which rot and add Nitrate and Phosphate to the water), and thus should be the first thing you should stop using unless you change/clean them daily (but then you are removing the food for the corals.)
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PO4/N03 removers: Really doesn't matter because N and P are the same throughout the system.
Fuge LR/LS/Macro: Doesn't matter, as far as nutrient removal is concerned.
Bio Balls (!): Should be removed slowly, unless you have massive amounts of fish, and little rock/sand.
Screens: I will be selling ready-to-use screens soon. But until then, it's best to use two layers of extremely-rough plastic canvas, using a hole-saw (and about an hour) to rough up all four sides of the two sheets:





To demonstrate how rough the screen should be, here is a video of a towel dropped on a rough screen:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasTowellDrop1.mpg
...compared to a smooth screen:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasTowellDrop2.mpg
 

king_neptune

Active Member

Any tips?
I think I might need to rough up the screen better. I definitely didnt grate it for an hour, it was more like 5 min.
Or do you think I'm ok if you consider the following:
I have great water params. 0/0/0 8.2
The tank is under an extremely light load. 3 small fish, 2 large crabs,2 emeralds, a dozen hermits and about 25-30 snails.The only other thing for filtration is 80lbs of LS, and 50lbs of LR loaded with bristle worms.
I have yet to run the skimmer.
Although I am considering turning on the GFO/Carbon reactor to help clear the water up. Its still got the diatom leftover from the cycle, and Id like to get the finer particles out.
i did remove the filter sock today. And when I take the screens out to clean them in the next few days, Ill add another layer to thicken it up.
*edit:
I got the lighting on 16/8
 

king_neptune

Active Member
As an experiment, I roughed up only one side today really good. Got about 2 teaspoons of shavings. Ill post some before and after pics i 2 weeks. And some comparison shots of the roughed side vs the smoother side.
Hear is what it looked like today when I pulled it out for cleaning:

If the results still aren't good enough Ill add a second screen to thicken it up. This will be a nice experiment for you to share on all the various other sites, so follow along for the next couple weeks.
edit*
Can you identify the red/brown algae? i remember reading somewhere a dozen pages back that it was bad, but I cant remember what it is and why you said it was bad. Thx
 

desertdawg

Member
I've been doing a lot of reading about these, It's where I want to go with my new setup since it's not drilled (tempered glass). I'm watching King Neptunes adventures with nothing but a scrubber working.
 

king_neptune

Active Member
RAWR!
And an updated note:
My water is finally beginning to turn towards that "Crystal Clear" look I've been coveting so much. I might not have to activate my phos/carbon reactor after all. Ive done three things:
1. Stepped up water changes for the last two weeks. %10 every 3-5 days, Ill start slacking off now that I see results.
2. Used a brush to remove the algae on the rocks that have been present ever since the cycle. I did this the first couple days of my water change step up, and it hasn't come back yet.
3. Removed my filter sock. Go figure, Monica was right, take this off, it only impedes the scrubber.
Who's to say what did what, but I do know I saw the biggest improvement when I removed the filter sock. Its not up to my desired showroom quality that I see at some of the better LFS's, but I am definitely getting there, and its worlds better than what it was only a week ago. And my water levels always test out perfect. 0/0/0/8.2
NO SKIMMER!!
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
 

desertdawg

Member
Your my hero!

note: Hero status subjective to scrubber success, I have to draw a line somewhere!
I'm going to start gathering parts this weekend, I already have a HOB overflow now I need a pump and pipe and screen and tub and.....
Dang the wife is going to hate you...
 

king_neptune

Active Member
Originally Posted by Desertdawg
http:///forum/post/3133169
note: Hero status subjective to scrubber success, I have to draw a line somewhere!
Hero status revoked:
I'm seeing the results of my experiment.
By completely removing the algae off the scrubber(and the rest of the tank) I now have minute detectable levels of Trites/Trates .5/.1 very faint and hard to tell, but they are there.This is a minuscule amount, and I directly blame cleaning both sides of the scrubber and all the algae.
However I did a full battery of tests, hear are the results:
Ammonia= 0
Nitrite= .5
Nitrate= .1
PH= 8.2
Iodine= 0
Alkalinity meq/L= 4 <--this is a drop, it was 4.5 for a while, any concern?)
Calcium= 450
Silicates= 8 <-- is this cause for concern?
Phosphates= 0
 

desertdawg

Member
No, spending money!
I picked up lots of parts today, I'll get to building tomorrow... Just need to do a test with my overflow to see how much flow I'll get then cut the screen to match that flow.
Picked up some CF 40 watt, 27K bulbs and reflectors, a 10 gallon tank, PVC fittings and other goodies....
 
B

blackburnd

Guest
I FINALLY REACHED THE END

Now for my questions.
I will be starting a new tank (only) tank soon. Can I use this thing right from the get go or will the algae die due to nitrogen cycle?
When you reference size of screen do I want 1in total for every gallon, or 1 inch in length for every gallon? I will be doing a 92Gal corner and 92 inches long sure sounds too tall to fit underneath a tank stand... I assume 1inch per gallon total, but want confirmation.
If I have some fish and easy corals (zoos, Shrooms, star polyps) do I need anything other than the scrubber? and by anything I mean anything.... Lights are a given, but otherwise?
thanks.
 

stoss

Member
I won a raffle at a LFS. Got 50&#37; off anything in the store. So I bought a 210g tank & stand for $650. I won it last Tuesday and picked it up on Saturday
. I cant wait to start working on it, but I am not going to take my time. I was thinking about making a scrubber for this tank. Any opinions? Keeping the cost down on this build would be perfect. Has anyone used a scrubber for 3,4,5 years and how has it been working for you?
I currently have two 75g tanks, a reef and a fish only. Going to make this tank a FOWLR. In my current fish only tank, i have a durgeon trigger, lionfish, harlequin tusk, vlamingii tang, 2 strawberry hermit crabs, and a yellow headed moray.
I am currently trying to build a scrubber for my reef tank. Tried to get fancy and ended up messing everything up, so I have to go back to the hardware store and pick up more supplies.
 

king_neptune

Active Member
Originally Posted by BlackburnD
http:///forum/post/3135129
I FINALLY REACHED THE END

Now for my questions.
I will be starting a new tank (only) tank soon. Can I use this thing right from the get go or will the algae die due to nitrogen cycle?To help pollute my tank during the cycle i kept my scrubber lights off. But that didnt stop it from getting some brown algae on the screen under the stand while it was dark. When I was satisfied my cycle was done, i put the lights on 16/8 timer and within two weeks i had the growth you saw in the pictures.
When you reference size of screen do I want 1in total for every gallon, or 1 inch in length for every gallon? I will be doing a 92Gal corner and 92 inches long sure sounds too tall to fit underneath a tank stand... I assume 1inch per gallon total, but want confirmation.once inch total, 10x12 sheet will do 120 gallons
If I have some fish and easy corals (zoos, Shrooms, star polyps) do I need anything other than the scrubber? and by anything I mean anything.... Lights are a given, but otherwise?I ahve yet to put anything else on in my new build. The only time i ever got a negative reading was when i cleaned the screen, and that was barly registered, hopefully ill never have to turn on my skimmer(and I firmly believe that will hold true permanently) I might yeild and activate my GFO/Carbon reactor, but that is jsut to get the water a super pristine crystal clear look
thanks.
your welcome
 

king_neptune

Active Member
A 55g tank is pretty common on craigs list. that would do just fine. Or you can go to walmart and buy some large rubber maid bins. Those work well too, but plumbing the bins would be complicated. I payed $20 for my 55g tank and turned it into a sump by getting the glass baffles at lowes for under 20 bucks.
Definitely dont pay over $50 for an empty 55g tank.
 
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