Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

[santamonica]

Update: Pancaked screens
Since nobody is currently manufacturing a proper screen for a scrubber, we have to make the best of the materials we can get. Whatever material you use, it has been found that stacking two screens together works better than one. This is when you "pancake" two sheet of screen material together; they can be glued, sewn, or clamped together. This gives the algae much more to grab onto.

 

[coralreefer]

i have a problem. this is how i did my plumbing:

when i unscrew the ball valve to clean the scrubber, wont water spray everywhere and make a mess? what is the solution to this issue?

 

[santamonica]

If it is overflow-fed from the display, then you would have a problem with that layout. First of all, the Union and the Valve need to be reversed, so that you can turn the water off with the Valve, and then disconnect the Union below it. But then the overflow from the display needs to go somewhere, so you just need to add a "spillover" above the Valve, in an upside-down "U" shape, so that when you close the Valve, water will go up and over, and then down into the sump.
Or, you can just configure it like this:

 

[coralreefer]

i am going to install a ball valve before the scrubber so i can turn the flow off from the overflow and just shut off the return pump

 

[posiden]

Originally Posted by coralreefer
http:///forum/post/3023361
i am going to install a ball valve before the scrubber so i can turn the flow off from the overflow and just shut off the return pump

I would put the ball valve before the union, that way you don't have to unscrew the valve. The union will unscrew without having to swing the scrubber round and round and round, assuming you have room for that.. This also allows you to shut off the scrubber for extended periods of time with out ill effects to the display. Also, if you should decide that the scrubber just isn't for you then it will be quite simple to eradicate it from the system.

 

[coralreefer]

i would do that if i could but between the tee and the union, there is only about a centimeter of pvc space

im actually considering re-doing it...

 

[posiden]

That is probably the best. Just think about the fact that you will be unscrewing this thing every week for cleanings.

 

[santamonica]

Update: Empty Spots On Screen
Some people have small spots on the screen, about 1" (25mm) wide, that have no algae; these spots are scattered across the screen (not just near the bulb). These spots are where algae actually WAS growing, but the algae could not hold on, so it let go and went into the water. The reasons the algae could not hold on are:
1. The screen is too smooth (most common problem). No matter what material you use, you should use rough sandpaper to really mess up the surface. If the material is clear (like acrylic; not recommended), you should not be able to see through it at all. If the material is not clear, you should not be able to see a reflection, at all. If the material is a solid sheet, holes should be drilled every 1/4" (6mm)... instead of every inch like many people have tried. With solid sheets, instead of drilling holes, it's better to lay a layer of rug canvas, plasic canvas, shade cloth, or perforated drawer liner, across the surface. You would sand this also.
2. The screen is too thin. Screens should be about 1/4" (6mm) thick. This is thicker than most materials, so you should use two or three pancaked layers of material. This gives the "roots" of the algae more to grab onto.
3. The lights are not being turned off each night (18 hours ON, 6 hours OFF). So the algae grows, but then gets weak because it cannot rest. So it lets go.
4. The flow is too low (the opposite of what you would think). Higher flow delivers more nutrients to the algae (so it can grow strong), and also gives the algae more protection from the light (since the thickness of the water on the screen is more.)
5. The bulbs are actually TOO near, or TOO strong (this is very rare, however). It seems that bulbs that are 60 watt CFL (actual, not equivalent), AND which are 2 inches (5cm) from the screen or less, start to do this. If your flow is strong, then try decreasing the light by either (1) reducing the ON hours, (2) moving the light out to 4", or (3) getting smaller bulbs. But only try one technique at a time.

 

[thauro77]

I have a question for this. So yopu are supposed to scrub the algae off the filter? It's that correct? and how often should I do this?
Originally Posted by SantaMonica
http:///forum/post/2720369
Part 2 of 8
You might ask why you have not heard of turf algae filters before. Well turf algae is actually used quite a bit in commercial/industrial areas to clean lakes and rivers, but the units that were built for aquariums were just too big (as big as the tank itself) and expensive ($3,000+). So they never caught on. But all they do is move water across a screen, and have a light. So putting the turf in a bucket or your sump works just fine.
The only thing you need to decide is how big your screen needs to be, and if you want it to be in a bucket or your sump. The basic rule is one square inch of screen for each gallon of tank water. A 5 gallon bucket (like a salt bucket) can hold a screen about 12 X 12 inches = 144 square inches = 144 gal tank; a 2 gallon bucket can hold about 7 X 7 inches = 49 gal tank; a one gallon bucket about 6 X 6 = 36 gal tank. Turf filters get really small as you can see. A 12 gal nano tank needs just 3 X 4 inches in a tupperware container! This small thing replaces the skimmer, refugium, phosphate removers, nitrate removers, carbon, filtersocks, and possibly even waterchanges (if the purpose of the waterchanges is to reduce nitrate and phosphate.) If your tank is bigger than a 144, then just start with a 5 gallon bucket size and see how it goes. You can always add a second one, or build a bigger one later.
My example bucket version takes about a day to build. Water goes in the pvc pipe at the top, flows down over the screen, then drains out the bottom. That's it! Oh, and it has clip-on lights and a fan. I can feed the tank as much food as I want, and anything not eaten by the corals or fish eventually ends up as turf algae on the screen.
Here are the sump versions (putting turf in the sump was thought of by -- user "biomekanic")...
Good: Takes a few minutes to build:

Better: Takes about three hours to build:

Best: Takes about a day to build:

The advantages of the sump version are:
o No extra space needed.
o Version 1 can be set up in a few minutes.
o Can make use of the wasted space once used by bio balls.
o Is fed directly from the overflow, thus eliminating the pump entirely.
Disadvantages:
o Pods produced by the turf have to flow through your return pump to get you your tank.
o If the top of your sump is closed, it may need to be drilled or cut open for air/light.
Further down, I'll show how to build the bucket version since I made it myself (and have pics), then I'll show you drawings of how you'd do the in-sump versions (since I don't have pics). The bucket version is overall the most powerful, flexible, and even portable. The in-sump version (especially version 1) is easiest to build, but about half as powerful, and a little harder to access once installed. But for now, here's how a turf algae filter (bucket version) compares to other filtering options:
o Will wipe out most algae growth in the display, since nitrate and phosphate will be LOW.
o Allows you to feed very high amounts without causing nuisance algae growth in the tank.
o Will finally allow coralline to grow, since the phosphate will be too low stop it.
o Does not skim out coralline spores like a skimmer does.
o Can replace waterchanges, if the purpose of the waterchange is to reduce nitrate or
phosphate or algae growth.
o Has the highest nitrate and phosphate removing power of any macro algae (because of
the high air and light levels it gets).
o Is very quick to respond to excess nitrate and phosphate spikes (the turf "screen" always
stays the same size after it is trimmed); much quicker than refugiums/macros which have
smaller surface areas after they are trimmed.

 

[santamonica]

There are three reasons a screen needs weekly cleanings: 1) The FW in the sink kills the pods that will eat the algae, 2) The algae you clean off is nitrate and phosphate that you just removed from your tank, and 3) As the algae gets thicker on the screen, the outer layers start shading the inner layers, causing the inner layers to die and flow back into the tank, re-introducing nitrate and phosphate, and also yellowing the water. Thus removing the outer layers keeps the inner layers growing strong.
After 7 days, it might be time for it's first gentle cleaning (not scraping). Also if you went 24/7 with the lights, go back now to 18 hours on, 6 off. Take the screen out and put it in the sink, and while lightly running tap water on it, very very lightly give it a soft rub with your fingers (not fingernails) and see if the top layers of the green algae easily come off. Don't force it, or remove it all the way to the screen (and don't remove any at all on areas that have not grown over the screen holes). Do this on ONE side of the screen), and return it to the bucket. By the way, all the green algae you removed is nitrate and phosphate from your tank.

 

[santamonica]

Update: Screen Sequence
Here is the typical sequence of algae on a new screen: First is a light brown coating, like a slime. After a week of that, you clean it lightly, and the next week you get a darker brown. After you clean that, you'll either get very dark brown/black stuff which stays very hard and thin, or you'll start getting some green hair. If it's the dark stuff, clean it right way (don't wait a week). After a few cleanings of this dark stuff, it too will start turning green. After a month or two, most of the growth will be green hair. If you start getting purple cyano on the screen, it means your light is too weak or too far away. If you start getting a hard yellowish plastic-like coating that covers the algae, it means your flow is too low in that area. If you start getting bald spots near your bulb, it means you are leaving your bulb on 24 hours, when you should be turning it off 6 hours a day. If you start getting round holes in your algae, it means pods are eating through it, because you are not using freshwater in your 7-day cleanings.

 

[santamonica]

Screen Recomendations
I've been doing research on the ultimate screen material. I want it to have all the best characteristics, so if you have some ideas as to what the material should do, or what it should have, let's hear it.

 

[darrinsimon]

Okay so I think I know why I have algae in my DT now. My nitrates and phosphates are 0, we feed every 2 -3 days and only have 3 fish, 30 or so hermits and 12 peppermint shrimp. It's a 90g setup with 120 pounds of fuji sand and about 75 pounds of live rock. (we will add more fish after we move, twice)
Green hairlike algae all over most of the rocks and it grows on the sides of the tank too. About 1250 GPH of movement in the tank not including what skimmer does because it doesn't give rating. Tank has been established for 4 years now, had a problem (bad) with aptaisia, but 12 peppermint took care of that within 2 weeks of putting them in there. I guess my algae scrubbing is happening on the rocks, which means I need a sump or one of these so it can grow elsewhere, what do you think?

 

[santamonica]

Yes I think your HA on the rocks is doing your scrubbing. You don't have to use a sump, though... you can do a sumpless:

 

[darrinsimon]

Thanks, I do have a 20 gallon tank sitting around, it would be nice to have the algae grow there rather than the DT.

 

[santamonica]

Taken from "It's In The Water", by Ron Shimek
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-0...ture/index.php
[Aquarists have] the feeling that organisms somehow "use up," "change," or "consume" many of these [trace] chemicals, and in doing so, forever remove the chemicals from the reef aquarium system. This assumption is not completely false, some chemicals are "used up" and removed from the system, but most are not. Organisms are dynamic entities, and while some chemicals are temporarily sequestered away, such chemicals generally remain available in the system due to metabolic turnover. The only real exceptions to this as far as organisms are concerned are those chemicals, such as calcium, which get incorporated into an insoluble matrix.
Several trace elements are found in elevated concentrations in aquarium water . Some of these metals have extremely high concentrations relative to NSW; tin has already been mentioned as having concentrations over 200,000 times above normal, but Thallium, Titanium, Aluminum, Zinc, Cobalt, Antimony, and Copper all have concentrations of over 95 times normal.
Several of the trace metals varied in concert, particularly Cobalt, Tin, Zinc, Titanium, Copper and Vanadium, and lower but still positive correlations with Nickel and Aluminum are found. All of these metals are found at concentrations far above those of natural sea water. Some of these concentrations are almost unbelievably high. Tin has an average concentration in our systems of over 200,000 times greater than in natural sea water.
Increases in many of these same metals are correlated with the age of the tank. One explanation for that pattern would be that they may build up with the passage of time.
The older tanks also have more ammonia, nitrate/nitrite, phosphorus, iodine and copper than younger tanks.
Many of the trace element concentrations are lower than they are in freshly made up artificial sea water. Whether this indicates organism use, or abiotic chemical reactions, is unclear. Even though these levels are lower than in "fresh" artificial sea water, they are still very much higher than in natural sea water, and may still indicate a cause for concern.
[scrubbers remove metals; skimmers do not]

 

[santamonica]

Update: Where to point bulb
Always try to point the bulb at the middle of the screen, not the top. You don't want too much algae growing at the top by the pipe, because it will grow into the slot and slow down the water. If you have no choice and you have to point the light at the slot, you can attach a thin plastic strip to the pipe, such that it blocks the light from hitting the slot.

 

[santamonica]

Update: Results of not cleaning
If you do not clean your screen in FW once a week (or at least put the whole screen in FW, and clean half of it), here is what happens:
1. Pods start growing and multipling in the bottom layers of the algae. They do this by eating more of the algae. They then get washed off into the water and get consumed.
2. The bottom layers of algae (attached to the screen) start getting shaded by the new algae that grows on top of it.
3. The bottom layers of algae (attached to the screen) start getting less flow, because they are being covered up by the new algae that grows on top of it.
4. The algae starts growing up into the slot in the pipe, causing less water to flow out.
5. The algae gets thicker and longer and heavier, and thus "lets go" from the screen easier.
The results of 1, 2, 3, and 4 above, is that the bottom layers (which you can't see because they are underneath) start dying and disolving back into the water. The result of #5 is that large pieces of algae on the top layers (that normally would be useful) also go into the water and die due to lack of light.
However, you don't see any of this. What you do see is that the growth seems to be great, but it gets to a certain point and stops. It seems to have "stopped growing". Also the nutrients start rising. So the tendancy of some folks is to leave it longer without cleaning it, so to give the algae "more time to grow". Big mistake.
What is happening is that the underlying layers are dying off so fast, that the algae is being removed from the bottom as fast as it is growing on the top. Kind of like building a second floor on top of a house, but then removing the first floor: You end up with a one-level house again. But then you take all the materials that you got from removing the first floor, and you use them to build a new second floor. But then you tear apart the first floor again, etc.
So what is happening is that the bottom layers (and the top layers that let go) are putting Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate back into the water, which gets used to grow new algae on the top layers again. So the scrubber can no longer filter your tank because it is so busy re-growing new layers to replace the old layers that died.
The easy solution to all of this is to just do your weekly cleaning in FW. And the solution to #5 (which really is the smallest problem) is to put a light-shield along the slot.

 

[santamonica]

Successes Update:
Labperck on the AR site, translated from Spanish as best possible: "My system is 130 liters, DIY skimmer, 5 pounds of live rock, aragonite substrate 3-4 cm, 1 crossbow bursa fish, 2 percula clowns, and 2 feather dusters. Nitrate remained at 40 mg/l with changes in water of 20 percent a week. With changes in water 20 percent weekly, there was no noticeable improvements. Started with the vodka method, nitrates lowered to 30 mg/l, with no change of water for 2 months. The display was filled with filamentous algae and cyano. Then I found this scrubber and decided to try it. Installed lighting on both sides, and started turning off the skimmer at night. A week later, the nitrates are at zero, and the water is more crystalline. For now I'm very happy with this filter, thank you SantaMonica, JulioVideo, and all those who put their advice."
Emporador on the AR site, translated from Spanish as best possible: "Best of all is that today is the first time in my life watching the NO3 test Salifert no3 = 0 ... I can not really believe. Apart from all my efforts to maintain a good filter system, this really gives the expected results."
RiaanP on the MASA site: "Scrubber is now over 3 months old, Phosphates and Nitrates used to be sky high, but now I got no PO4 or NO3 problems."
MarkM3 on the RS site: "Just want to say thanks to Santa Monica. i begin my double-screen 2 month ago for 180 gal heavey load fish, and few soft, lps corals, and i always had 80-100 nitrates from havey stock fish. and now for the first time in 2 years my nitrates level are ((((10 ppm

) which is amazing, corals are much happier, and pop there polyps more and more, hair algee on the display and rocks almost gone, still have a few red slim but less than before, much more cleanner display and caroline is growing too. its true, its active, its working the algee scrubberrrrrrrrr. go go go gooooo so thanks again."
SimonSKL on the MD site: "Just an update. I have started my ATS [2 months ago] but changed screen material about 5 weeks ago. Today, I am happy to say all cyano have disappeared from my tank and 95% of the hair algae are gone also. I have to add that I did change the water flow pattern by modifying two of my Maxijet 1200 with the Sure Flow adaptors. One pushes 2100gph and the other 1600gph, in a wavemaking mode. The screens that I now used are plastic canvas and doubled layers. I am still getting really dark brown algae growing on the screens and cleaning them about every 5-6 days. "
Glock339 on the UR site: "I [originally] set up my current nano to be Miracle Mud eco system. However I never actually got round to planting any algae in the MM, as I set up an algae scrubber and my params went perfect in a few weeks. so I' happy with things the way they are and probably shouldnt have bothered with the MM. Dunno if this helps but I'd defo recommend considering a scrubber to anyone wanting to ditch the skimmer and phos reactor."

 

[santamonica]

Continued...
MyFishEatYourFish on the MFK site: "update. nitrates undetectable with my test strips, so probably like 10 ppm, which is half of what i started with, so thats cool. i don't have a phosphate test but algae growth has slowed way way down already and my sand is actually white now, my fish are sooooooo active now its kinda nuts, even my flame angel and blue tang follow me waiting for food. i have nothing but the scrubber on there now and the tank is better than ever! all secondary filteration has been romoved for about a week and everything is continueing to improve. on my sheets brown started and soon turned dark brown with some green patches. i cleaned when the brown was too thick to see the sheet and noticed quite a bit of green underneath. coralline has noticanly increased its growthrate already and algae growth has almost stopped in the display, or my algae eaters eat it faster than it can grow. the rocks "leaked" [phosphate] for just a couple days and now are almost completely nuissance algae free and looking great. i am really impressed with the speed and effectiveness of this thing. i think using fabric really helped because how well the agae spores catch and hold on. in my opinion it is superior to any medium tried yet."
Dragon1188 on the SG site: "Just like to share that i just simply use a piece of plastic sheet (the white color one u can buy from Popular bookshop and quite rough) inclined at 30 degree to catch the return water to my sump. The piece of plastic is lighted by 2x8watt of Philips "tornado" energy saver bulb running 24x7 [should be 18 hours]. The piece of plastic is just 46cm long and 40cm wide. Total water flow over it is about 2000L/hr. My tank and sump volume is 400 L. After 1months, green (both hairy and fern like) and red algae (matt) growing like crazy [on the screen]. Can harvest 1 fistfull every 3 days. I had even removed my phosphate reactor and skimmer. Its been running 4months now and my phosphate is about 0.01ppm and nitrate is 0."
Da_Gopherboy on the 3R site: "I also battled nitrates for a while, my tank was FOLR for a while before I desided to add coral. Since I didn't intend to go in that direction originally nitrates were not my concern. So I was stuck trying to figure out how to drop the nitrates without contant water changes, or buying a denitrator (US Economy makes me poor). I made an ATS scrubber that was fed by my overflow right above my refugium. Nitrates made almost an 80% decrease within less than 2 months."
DangerDave on 3R: "I have been running the turf scrubber close to 4 months now. I haven't done a water change in about 2 months now. I just top the tank off. I do not have to clean the glass every couple hours or everyday. I clean the glass about once or twice a week (I have to clean/scrap the coraline off more than the algae). Coraline has taken off, corals are flourishing, mushrooms are splitting like crazy, everything is doing superb."