Meowzer's LED build
- Thread starter meowzer
- Start date
acrylic51
Active Member
I remember the plan.....My 2nd comment is that the fans must remove heat from the enclosure....Meaning they are perfectly fine......They would be utilized no differently than cooling/exhaust fans in a hood enclosure. Worse case scenario you could run fan prefilters, but I don't see an issue running straight fans pulling heat from the enclosure. Technically I think the fans would be mounted inside the enclosure pushing/pulling air out of the enclosure.
I'm curious more about how your going to construct the enclosure so that you can gain access inside the box for future work. That is where I had recommended using acrylic hinges to build a lid that can be opened and closed.
I'm curious more about how your going to construct the enclosure so that you can gain access inside the box for future work. That is where I had recommended using acrylic hinges to build a lid that can be opened and closed.
acrylic51
Active Member
Sorry.....Another option would be to opt away from the acrylic enclosure, and to use a NEMA enclosure to house everything, but again still has to be cooled. I don't see a major issue with excess weight due to the drivers. Bottom line IMHO is if you have solid mounting points I'd stand over the top all day without worry.......Moisture, humidity again very insignificant IMO.....The stuff will be shielded away from direct contact. I'm not trying to downplay any questions raised, but they "control center" is mounted above, so it would never really receive direct spray/mist from the tank, plus being covered and vented. I must admit acrylic isn't probably the best conductor of heat, but feel it would hold up better than any metal enclosure though. Also your electrical connections could be coated as well, and I'm pretty sure Corey had commented or mentioned that some time back......but if not can easily be done.
Your build as very good construction, and connections must be protected, but at the same time features were built in to monitor the system periodically as well, so make it easy to get to. Keep you eyes open, because you'll see and are starting to see that the basic color combinations used are going to change......
You could move your control box from above the tank, but would involve more cabling, which in turn opens other areas and issues.....
Your build as very good construction, and connections must be protected, but at the same time features were built in to monitor the system periodically as well, so make it easy to get to. Keep you eyes open, because you'll see and are starting to see that the basic color combinations used are going to change......
You could move your control box from above the tank, but would involve more cabling, which in turn opens other areas and issues.....
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434555
OH YEAH....he had said there would be a door.....and that whole section would be easily accessible
IDK what he is doing now....I'm not going out there to ask him....
Go to TotalPlastics clearance section and look up their hinges....Really cheap and print him off the pic......
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434555
OH YEAH....he had said there would be a door.....and that whole section would be easily accessible
IDK what he is doing now....I'm not going out there to ask him....
Go to TotalPlastics clearance section and look up their hinges....Really cheap and print him off the pic......
2quills
Well-Known Member
If you go over there and search for hinges you should be able to find them. Ridout plastics carry them as well. Just have to make sure they're set perfectly where you want them before glue up because there's no going back once you apply the solvent.
I'm more of a fan of keeping the drivers out of the fixture, myself. But that's not to say that people don't do it all the time. But if he made essentially a remote ballast box so to speak he could eliminate the double stack and have a sleeker/lower profile fixture that's easier to access the power supplies. Just a matter of personal taste I guess. It would lighten the fixture up a bit by not having the extra aluminum angle and power supplies on there. He could bundle all of the wires up into one cable with some connectors on them. Just a thought.
But I would try to leave a little room between the fixture and the tank. At least about 12-14 inches or so. Those fans will be pulling some moisture evaporating from the tank and pushing it through the fixture and that's what a lot of folks try to avoid.
I'm more of a fan of keeping the drivers out of the fixture, myself. But that's not to say that people don't do it all the time. But if he made essentially a remote ballast box so to speak he could eliminate the double stack and have a sleeker/lower profile fixture that's easier to access the power supplies. Just a matter of personal taste I guess. It would lighten the fixture up a bit by not having the extra aluminum angle and power supplies on there. He could bundle all of the wires up into one cable with some connectors on them. Just a thought.
But I would try to leave a little room between the fixture and the tank. At least about 12-14 inches or so. Those fans will be pulling some moisture evaporating from the tank and pushing it through the fixture and that's what a lot of folks try to avoid.
mr btldreef
Member
okay....maybe i am not making myself clear enough. i apologize... the mrs. has just told me to spell things out because not everyone is a nerd like me. lol.
i am also missing keys on my laptop so please have patience.
okay.... your drivers, fuses, and connections are all going on top of the fixture. granted you are going to cover them but, i don't recommend putting it on top and especially over the tank.
i have had my fixture for a 18 months and have had to redo 90% of it and one major thing i needed to correct .... placement of electical connections. salt gets all over the place and gets past everything.
you don't need your connections eroding or becoming conductive...yes salt is conductor. my recommendation is.... take it off the fixture and place it so that it is far from danger as possible.
since you are only running 3 drivers, you can have the 6 output connections on the top of your fixture to connect to your strings of leds. this can be accomplished by setting up a "ground block" and "power block" for each driver. not so many connections and easier to protect. you shouldn't have 120v going abov eyour tank, its just not safe. same can be done for the fans to make it easy too.
as far as fans.... i asked are you running fans because i did not see them. i see from your posts that you are. problem that i see is that this control section is right above some of the heatsinks of the actual leds. the drivers generate heat so i don't think it is going to let the heatsinks be as efficient as they should be.
the construction of your fixture though is very clean. hats off to your husband, keep up the good work.
i have built aprox 5 fixtures and each one is different and it is hard to plan it out. i am currently constructing cryptics fixtures as i type this lol. soon as i dig up his thread pics are going up.
-mark
i am also missing keys on my laptop so please have patience.
okay.... your drivers, fuses, and connections are all going on top of the fixture. granted you are going to cover them but, i don't recommend putting it on top and especially over the tank.
i have had my fixture for a 18 months and have had to redo 90% of it and one major thing i needed to correct .... placement of electical connections. salt gets all over the place and gets past everything.
you don't need your connections eroding or becoming conductive...yes salt is conductor. my recommendation is.... take it off the fixture and place it so that it is far from danger as possible.
since you are only running 3 drivers, you can have the 6 output connections on the top of your fixture to connect to your strings of leds. this can be accomplished by setting up a "ground block" and "power block" for each driver. not so many connections and easier to protect. you shouldn't have 120v going abov eyour tank, its just not safe. same can be done for the fans to make it easy too.
as far as fans.... i asked are you running fans because i did not see them. i see from your posts that you are. problem that i see is that this control section is right above some of the heatsinks of the actual leds. the drivers generate heat so i don't think it is going to let the heatsinks be as efficient as they should be.
the construction of your fixture though is very clean. hats off to your husband, keep up the good work.
i have built aprox 5 fixtures and each one is different and it is hard to plan it out. i am currently constructing cryptics fixtures as i type this lol. soon as i dig up his thread pics are going up.
-mark
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr btldreef http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434568
okay....maybe i am not making myself clear enough. i apologize... the mrs. has just told me to spell things out because not everyone is a nerd like me. lol.
i am also missing keys on my laptop so please have patience.
okay.... your drivers, fuses, and connections are all going on top of the fixture. granted you are going to cover them but, i don't recommend putting it on top and especially over the tank.
i have had my fixture for a 18 months and have had to redo 90% of it and one major thing i needed to correct .... placement of electical connections. salt gets all over the place and gets past everything.
you don't need your connections eroding or becoming conductive...yes salt is conductor. my recommendation is.... take it off the fixture and place it so that it is far from danger as possible.
since you are only running 3 drivers, you can have the 6 output connections on the top of your fixture to connect to your strings of leds. this can be accomplished by setting up a "ground block" and "power block" for each driver. not so many connections and easier to protect. you shouldn't have 120v going abov eyour tank, its just not safe. same can be done for the fans to make it easy too.
as far as fans.... i asked are you running fans because i did not see them. i see from your posts that you are. problem that i see is that this control section is right above some of the heatsinks of the actual leds. the drivers generate heat so i don't think it is going to let the heatsinks be as efficient as they should be.
the construction of your fixture though is very clean. hats off to your husband, keep up the good work.
i have built aprox 5 fixtures and each one is different and it is hard to plan it out. i am currently constructing cryptics fixtures as i type this lol. soon as i dig up his thread pics are going up.
-mark
Wasn't your guys fixture just a bare bones rig with no splash guard? I distinctly remember mentioning to someone that you would probably run into those issues a while back. But agreed, you could bundle everything up into one cable, one connection running to the fixture. In what way do you feel that running a 120v above the tank is more dangerous than not?
Originally Posted by Mr btldreef http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434568
okay....maybe i am not making myself clear enough. i apologize... the mrs. has just told me to spell things out because not everyone is a nerd like me. lol.
i am also missing keys on my laptop so please have patience.
okay.... your drivers, fuses, and connections are all going on top of the fixture. granted you are going to cover them but, i don't recommend putting it on top and especially over the tank.
i have had my fixture for a 18 months and have had to redo 90% of it and one major thing i needed to correct .... placement of electical connections. salt gets all over the place and gets past everything.
you don't need your connections eroding or becoming conductive...yes salt is conductor. my recommendation is.... take it off the fixture and place it so that it is far from danger as possible.
since you are only running 3 drivers, you can have the 6 output connections on the top of your fixture to connect to your strings of leds. this can be accomplished by setting up a "ground block" and "power block" for each driver. not so many connections and easier to protect. you shouldn't have 120v going abov eyour tank, its just not safe. same can be done for the fans to make it easy too.
as far as fans.... i asked are you running fans because i did not see them. i see from your posts that you are. problem that i see is that this control section is right above some of the heatsinks of the actual leds. the drivers generate heat so i don't think it is going to let the heatsinks be as efficient as they should be.
the construction of your fixture though is very clean. hats off to your husband, keep up the good work.
i have built aprox 5 fixtures and each one is different and it is hard to plan it out. i am currently constructing cryptics fixtures as i type this lol. soon as i dig up his thread pics are going up.
-mark
Wasn't your guys fixture just a bare bones rig with no splash guard? I distinctly remember mentioning to someone that you would probably run into those issues a while back. But agreed, you could bundle everything up into one cable, one connection running to the fixture. In what way do you feel that running a 120v above the tank is more dangerous than not?
acrylic51
Active Member
I don't see how it's anymore dangerous than how some mount MH ballasts or VHO ballasts......Electricity is electricity.....A lot depends on the quality of work and care....The splash shield which most don't see as important as others would help considerably, but mounted up top it has no direct contact with water....Proper wiring and shielding negates some risk.
The heat sinks themselves have fans don't they Meowzer??? I'm curious MRBTLDreef if your heatsinks are cooled by fans as well????? Curious as to how your electrical connections and such were covered/insulated? A NEMA approved box would work. Not saying it's foolproof, but they are designed for specific uses, so not buying wholeheartedly it can't be eliminated. I am in agreement that keeping them remotely would make life easier to work on and cooling the drivers themselves, but then you have to solve or come up with a cord management system, to keep wires from dangling, which in itself presents another issue....So easily for a wire to be nicked/cut, creating a short or shock hazard. Again making the rack mount adjustable and cabling is an issue ensuring it's not damaged. I think the whole power center above the light system is to eliminate or minimize the wiring nightmare......
The heat sinks themselves have fans don't they Meowzer??? I'm curious MRBTLDreef if your heatsinks are cooled by fans as well????? Curious as to how your electrical connections and such were covered/insulated? A NEMA approved box would work. Not saying it's foolproof, but they are designed for specific uses, so not buying wholeheartedly it can't be eliminated. I am in agreement that keeping them remotely would make life easier to work on and cooling the drivers themselves, but then you have to solve or come up with a cord management system, to keep wires from dangling, which in itself presents another issue....So easily for a wire to be nicked/cut, creating a short or shock hazard. Again making the rack mount adjustable and cabling is an issue ensuring it's not damaged. I think the whole power center above the light system is to eliminate or minimize the wiring nightmare......
mr btldreef
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434571
Wasn't your guys fixture just a bare bones rig with no splash guard? I distinctly remember mentioning to someone that you would probably run into those issues a while back. But agreed, you could bundle everything up into one cable, one connection running to the fixture. In what way do you feel that running a 120v above the tank is more dangerous than not?
fixture came totally bare bones... thats the reason i have had to redo it like i have stated. upgrade/rewire/add splash guards/plus more. what does that have anything to do with her fixture?
granted most fixtures have 120v fed right into the back of them and usually don't get corroded because they are inside the fixture instead of the outside of it. evaporation mostly occurs above the tank, near lights, where the 120v connections on her fixture is currently located. meaning that most of the salt build up is going to end up there. i am just recommending a safer solution.
putting the 120v connection, preferably covered, up higher on a wall, and away from the tank is just better. if you have the option why not just take the extra step and be safe.
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434571
Wasn't your guys fixture just a bare bones rig with no splash guard? I distinctly remember mentioning to someone that you would probably run into those issues a while back. But agreed, you could bundle everything up into one cable, one connection running to the fixture. In what way do you feel that running a 120v above the tank is more dangerous than not?
fixture came totally bare bones... thats the reason i have had to redo it like i have stated. upgrade/rewire/add splash guards/plus more. what does that have anything to do with her fixture?
granted most fixtures have 120v fed right into the back of them and usually don't get corroded because they are inside the fixture instead of the outside of it. evaporation mostly occurs above the tank, near lights, where the 120v connections on her fixture is currently located. meaning that most of the salt build up is going to end up there. i am just recommending a safer solution.
putting the 120v connection, preferably covered, up higher on a wall, and away from the tank is just better. if you have the option why not just take the extra step and be safe.
btldreef
Moderator
There were a lot of issues with our fixture from the beginning, ones that after dealing with them, I'd rather not see anyone else have to go through. I think some of the positives of having the drivers separate from the fixture are:
Less weight on the fixture. A 72" fixture is not exactly a feather weight.
Less heat. I don't give a damn what anyone says, the drivers run hot, seen it on more than one fixture. That combined with the heat being pulled by the heat sinks is something that I believe should be avoided if possible. Why wouldn't you want to keep/pull away as much heat as you could?
There's so much wiring that goes into these fixtures, an extra bundle to run the drivers away from the fixture really isn't a major production. I view it the same way many MH fixtures have the ballasts separated from the fixture.
We all talk about keeping electricity away/out of the tank, why would you avoid an extra safe guard? I just think it's something that should at least be considered. Pulling our fixture up and down to fix things along the way was a nightmare. I wouldn't want to see Lois have to pull her fixture up and down to fix issues like we did. If we had the time/money/weren't in the middle of moving to a new home, everything on the fixture would have been fixed from day 1, but unfortunately we couldn't do that. Lois has that option right now. I just recommend exploring every outlet to see what ultimately will work best.
After watching my husband build a few of these fixtures, he's really started to see what works most efficiently, what's a waste and what's a danger. Our original setup was made for us, and it was a wiring nightmare. I don't even know where to start with the things that were wrong. But price wise, it was cheaper to go that route than to order all the pieces individually, which is the only reason we bought it.
Less weight on the fixture. A 72" fixture is not exactly a feather weight.
Less heat. I don't give a damn what anyone says, the drivers run hot, seen it on more than one fixture. That combined with the heat being pulled by the heat sinks is something that I believe should be avoided if possible. Why wouldn't you want to keep/pull away as much heat as you could?
There's so much wiring that goes into these fixtures, an extra bundle to run the drivers away from the fixture really isn't a major production. I view it the same way many MH fixtures have the ballasts separated from the fixture.
We all talk about keeping electricity away/out of the tank, why would you avoid an extra safe guard? I just think it's something that should at least be considered. Pulling our fixture up and down to fix things along the way was a nightmare. I wouldn't want to see Lois have to pull her fixture up and down to fix issues like we did. If we had the time/money/weren't in the middle of moving to a new home, everything on the fixture would have been fixed from day 1, but unfortunately we couldn't do that. Lois has that option right now. I just recommend exploring every outlet to see what ultimately will work best.
After watching my husband build a few of these fixtures, he's really started to see what works most efficiently, what's a waste and what's a danger. Our original setup was made for us, and it was a wiring nightmare. I don't even know where to start with the things that were wrong. But price wise, it was cheaper to go that route than to order all the pieces individually, which is the only reason we bought it.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr btldreef http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434575
fixture came totally bare bones... thats the reason i have had to redo it like i have stated. upgrade/rewire/add splash guards/plus more. what does that have anything to do with her fixture?
granted most fixtures have 120v fed right into the back of them and usually don't get corroded because they are inside the fixture instead of the outside of it. evaporation mostly occurs above the tank, near lights, where the 120v connections on her fixture is currently located. meaning that most of the salt build up is going to end up there. i am just recommending a safer solution.
putting the 120v connection, preferably covered, up higher on a wall, and away from the tank is just better. if you have the option why not just take the extra step and be safe.
I believe his plan was for the case around the fixture to be completely sealed. So they shouldn't end up with any salt creep inside of it. Keeping the fixture mounted about 12+ above the tank should help ensure that. Correct, pretty much all pre-built fixtures have 120v a.c. carried up to the fixture where the internal ballasts make the conversion. One option for protection connections from any evap being pulled into the fixture could be negated by sealing all connection points if they want to go the extra mile. It's simple to do. Any short in the 120v would cause the breaker to trip and cut the supply of voltage. A short in the 48v d.c. will not do that. Power will continue to be supplied unless the use of an AFCI device is employed. But I agree, personally, I would keep all power supplies separate from the fixture itself in order to minimize heat in the fixture, weight and have a sleeker cleaner look above the tank.
Originally Posted by Mr btldreef http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434575
fixture came totally bare bones... thats the reason i have had to redo it like i have stated. upgrade/rewire/add splash guards/plus more. what does that have anything to do with her fixture?
granted most fixtures have 120v fed right into the back of them and usually don't get corroded because they are inside the fixture instead of the outside of it. evaporation mostly occurs above the tank, near lights, where the 120v connections on her fixture is currently located. meaning that most of the salt build up is going to end up there. i am just recommending a safer solution.
putting the 120v connection, preferably covered, up higher on a wall, and away from the tank is just better. if you have the option why not just take the extra step and be safe.
I believe his plan was for the case around the fixture to be completely sealed. So they shouldn't end up with any salt creep inside of it. Keeping the fixture mounted about 12+ above the tank should help ensure that. Correct, pretty much all pre-built fixtures have 120v a.c. carried up to the fixture where the internal ballasts make the conversion. One option for protection connections from any evap being pulled into the fixture could be negated by sealing all connection points if they want to go the extra mile. It's simple to do. Any short in the 120v would cause the breaker to trip and cut the supply of voltage. A short in the 48v d.c. will not do that. Power will continue to be supplied unless the use of an AFCI device is employed. But I agree, personally, I would keep all power supplies separate from the fixture itself in order to minimize heat in the fixture, weight and have a sleeker cleaner look above the tank.
meowzer
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434584
But I agree, personally, I would keep all power supplies separate from the fixture itself in order to minimize heat in the fixture, weight and have a sleeker cleaner look above the tank.
Why do you bring this up now??? We have always had the same design
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434584
But I agree, personally, I would keep all power supplies separate from the fixture itself in order to minimize heat in the fixture, weight and have a sleeker cleaner look above the tank.
Why do you bring this up now??? We have always had the same design
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434586
Why do you bring this up now??? We have always had the same design
Because I don't think it's life or death. And I didn't know what all of his plans were, I saw the picture of the case and that was about it. By the time I realized he was planning on having the power supplies in the fixture he had already bought the material and built the frame. I didn't want to complicate the build at that point with my personal opinions or ideas. He had the build part under control and still does IMO.
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///t/387353/meowzers-led-build/480#post_3434586
Why do you bring this up now??? We have always had the same design
Because I don't think it's life or death. And I didn't know what all of his plans were, I saw the picture of the case and that was about it. By the time I realized he was planning on having the power supplies in the fixture he had already bought the material and built the frame. I didn't want to complicate the build at that point with my personal opinions or ideas. He had the build part under control and still does IMO.
mr btldreef
Member
yes ACRYLIC57, i have a fan on each heatsink. as far the connection that i have redone.... solder and shrink tubed on the fixture. as far as the driver connections , fuses, and 120v feed they are mounted to a board 10 feet from the tank. they are hidden from plain site...they are an eye sore. i am also expecting an hlg driver in the next couple of days so i can clean up the nightmare and run these leds more efficiently. as far as wiring nightmare.... the " ground block" "power block" can rid of this burden. the six wires from the ballasts .... can go up to the fixture to connect the all the strings of leds.
maybe you haven't moved a 6 foot fixture before ... it is not easy...and usually takes 2 people. then make it all sealed up and moisture proof.... requires some heavy enclosure and possibly silicone. heavy???? your damn right.
maybe you haven't moved a 6 foot fixture before ... it is not easy...and usually takes 2 people. then make it all sealed up and moisture proof.... requires some heavy enclosure and possibly silicone. heavy???? your damn right.
mr btldreef
Member
lois, i am not trying to piss you off.... i am just trying to help. and it still can be changed. the control center can be just moved and wires lengthened.