Morish Idol Help

[ross]

I wouldnt go for the idol, but if you do, feed it LOTS! They need tons of food, at least 3 times a day. and vary the diet. They need mysis shrimp and lots of algae too. A 30g will be fine to qtine him in. Try to keep him as stress free as possible. When you feed just put the food in and walk away and watch, dont sit there and stare at the tank b/c he will probably be too scared to come out. I know all this from personal experience, i have dealt with idols quite a bit, and yes most die but some do live. At the lfs where i work we can get probably 8 out of 10 eating but that doesnt mean they all live....most of them die. anyways...good luck with yours let us know how he does.

 

[angelsrock]

Originally Posted by sw65galma
Of course it is
But since the demand is different for fish i think the mortality in numbers is probably the same..
Lets say 9 out of 10 Idols die and lets say 2 out of 10 Clownfish die....
I would venture to say that more than 100x the amount of clownfish are sold compared to Idols...Seeing how my LFS alone has only had 1 idol and about 200 CF.
so in that case 20 cf die to 9 idols...
I'm not saying thats ok by any means, but it is all relative...
the only difference between that analogy is that the clownfish can be breed in captivity which cuts down on the harvesting of the wild. not only do morish idols not do well in captivity, they definitely do not breed in captivity so a 100% of them come from the wild. even though they are not endangered they will be if people keep buying them and killing them, maybe not today or tomorrow but it could happen within a decade. this is one of the reasons i'm sure that people do not want other people to buy them. not to diminish the value of life on a clown, but they are a lot hardier and are pretty much a dime a dozen so to speak.

 

[dogstar]

well geting back to creative's question. I have only been reading this site for about 4 months and only remember one person posting that they had an idol. I think they said they had it for 9 months and then they said they sold it. :thinking:

 

[fishieness]

i remember that... but dont remember if he sold it or not...
He posted to prove to someone that it was still alive. And i remember his thumb was in the pic to prove that it was recent... was the the one you were thinking of dogstar?

 

[dogstar]

Yea, must be. Dont remember anybody esle posting about haveing one. He posted pics. I just remember him saying he sold it cause it made me wonder at the time if he realy did or something esle if you know what I mean.

 

[feixjai]

i would suggest not getting it. my big brother who has a lot of experience with saltwater got it once and it died 1 week later.

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by feixjai
i would suggest not getting it. my big brother who has a lot of experience with saltwater got it once and it died 1 week later.
That can happen with any fish...you never know what kind of shipping stress it had...

 

[shawnts106]

morish are very hard to keep alive they dont ship very well and getting them to eat is a tottal pain so i would wait till you are fully set up
What we all hear when we want to get one LOL!
I love these fish personally, and I HAVE heard of people keeping them, mainly in refugium filtered systems! maybe this is a small keywhole in the husbandry of this species... I dont know!
I know I have heard of the clam shell thing... maybe you can try this, I would just make a complet mixture of clam, mussel,shrimps plankton,cyclop,mysis,brine,um...krill,um, just ... squid, anything and everything even some nori in there too, everything and anything to try to get it to eat, and soaking it in garlic may/maynot help, adding that Entice product may help, anything you can do it!!

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
What we all hear when we want to get one LOL!
I love these fish personally, and I HAVE heard of people keeping them, mainly in refugium filtered systems! maybe this is a small keywhole in the husbandry of this species... I dont know!
I know I have heard of the clam shell thing... maybe you can try this, I would just make a complet mixture of clam, mussel,shrimps plankton,cyclop,mysis,brine,um...krill,um, just ... squid, anything and everything even some nori in there too, everything and anything to try to get it to eat, and soaking it in garlic may/maynot help, adding that Entice product may help, anything you can do it!!

Doing it....I spent over $100 on Fish food when I was at the LFS, I raided the freezer and anything else they recommend..If you look in my freezer you'd wonder if humans actually live in my house lol

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
I love these fish personally, and I HAVE heard of people keeping them, mainly in refugium filtered systems! maybe this is a small keywhole in the husbandry of this species... I dont know!
Is anyone questioning if people have kept them? As mentioned, I kept one at an LFS for over a year. Noone questions that people HAVE kept them...but I've heard of far more FAILURES in trying to keep them LONG TERM. And once again it is the multitude of failures that get ignored while focusing on the rather few successes.

 

[darth tang]

the only difference between that analogy is that the clownfish can be breed in captivity which cuts down on the harvesting of the wild. not only do morish idols not do well in captivity, they definitely do not breed in captivity so a 100% of them come from the wild. even though they are not endangered they will be if people keep buying them and killing them, maybe not today or tomorrow but it could happen within a decade. this is one of the reasons i'm sure that people do not want other people to buy them. not to diminish the value of life on a clown, but they are a lot hardier and are pretty much a dime a dozen so to speak.
So replace Clownfish with Yellow Tang...............The fatality rates on yellow tangs are higher than a clownfish. Just helping with the relative part of this discussion.

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by Darth Tang
So replace Clownfish with Yellow Tang...............The fatality rates on yellow tangs are higher than a clownfish. Just helping with the relative part of this discussion.
Absolutely. But to me it is still a difference...one has poor survival because they are poorly handled. Once established they can do quite well in captivity. The issue is that they are cheap and expendable and thus not worth special handling. But those that survive and make it into an even sketchy cycled system (even under 29g), stand a pretty good chance of survival past a year. They are within the means of most hobbyists to keep, even if I disagree with them being in a small tank.
The other even if it makes it through handling, still doesn't stand a particularly good chance. To me, moorish idols fall into a different class of fish with sweetlips, large parrotfish and a few others, that just shouldn't be imported at all. Even special handling will not ensure a longer life, IMO, because we don't appear to be able to provide proper care/diet for them.
So to me, they are different issues neither of which I am happy about And I am sure that I won't change anyone's mind on it.

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Absolutely. But to me it is still a difference...one has poor survival because they are poorly handled. Once established they can do quite well in captivity. The issue is that they are cheap and expendable and thus not worth special handling. But those that survive and make it into an even sketchy cycled system (even under 29g), stand a pretty good chance of survival past a year. They are within the means of most hobbyists to keep, even if I disagree with them being in a small tank.
The other even if it makes it through handling, still doesn't stand a particularly good chance. To me, moorish idols fall into a different class of fish with sweetlips, large parrotfish and a few others, that just shouldn't be imported at all. Even special handling will not ensure a longer life, IMO, because we don't appear to be able to provide proper care/diet for them.
So to me, they are different issues neither of which I am happy about And I am sure that I won't change anyone's mind on it.
Although it's the persisantess that people kept trying that got all these fish we can keep in the first place..Do you think that all of these fish were just KNOWN about before they were sold? each one of these fish i'm sure were the "OMG YOU CAN'T KEEP THOSE" fish years and years ago...as people kept trying them...(non recklessly) people learned more about them.
If we kept your attitude we'd have like 3 fish to choose from. Eventually someone will "Crack the Code" of these fish, but with out trying them, we will never.
Also if there is a demand for them, science will be forced to figure them out...as with all the fish. Most Marine Biologist didn't figure out the feeding and caring habits of each and every fish for the heck of it!
There was money involved because there was a demand for them by aquarist. By not creating a demand for new species and different fish, we'd kill this hobby.
Who would be in this hobby if we had 20 fish to choose from and that's it?
Again i'd like to say I'm not advocating that everyone tries this fish...Only someone with the knowledge (of atleast what is known) and the system...(what is generally accepted as a min for these)
I hear what you and the others are saying, and I agree to a point, but your point doesn't coincided with your actions....
Meaning we are all buying fish that years ago weren't known that well how to care for and were needlessly killed, but because of the perserverance of science and fellow hobbist, we have the info we need today.

The defense Rests :cheer: :cheer:

 

[ophiura]

I hear what you and the others are saying, and I agree to a point, but your point doesn't coincided with your actions....
:thinking: You have no idea what sort of animals I have kept...but even if I kept all of the animals I feel should be banned, I could easily have seen the light and have a right to change my opinions as I've researched about their needs and the impacts of the hobby or human impacts in general. Believe me, as I have come from the ranks of scientists - that they are not generally out to discover how things live so that hobbyists, many of whom in general have a very bad reptutation in the scientific field, can go harvest them and keep them in tanks. :nope: LOL I suppose that they will take money to do gut content analysis...but then what if you find the primary diet is sponges, or tunicates or other things that can't be easily provided in captivity? At some point hobbyists have to be responsible enough to say they don't have a right to every fish out there. I do hope we have made some progress in the ethics of this hobby over the years. :yes:
There are many scientists who would love to see this hobby die because of the attitudes of many hobbyists that they have a right to have whatever pretty fish or coral or other animal pleases them and darn the consequences. There are many scientists who think there is a value in it, that not all hobbyists are bad, but that there should be some responsibility and restraint inherent in being a hobbyist.
But as I mentioned, no one is likely to change anyone elses mind on it. It is merely my POV.
Best of luck with your moorish idol. I do hope it lives, but once again encourage you to remember the limitations of your experience. One fish does not "solve the puzzle" of keeping them, as I think you agree.

The moorish Idol I worked with was a beautiful fish, and it was a shock to see it die so unexpectedly.
I don't much like being, be default, the "prosecution" as I do not think that is what I was doing.

 

[sw65galma]

it's all good.

 

[darth tang]

It is hearby the ruling of this court that sw65galma shall be allowed to keep the Moorish Idol in question. Under no such circumstances is the defendant to advocate the purchase of this fish to anyone with a system consiting no less than 300 gallons and 700lds of live rock and sand. It is the further ruling of this court the defendant is to give everyone a monthly update regarding their progress. The defendant will also willingly disclose any information regarding this species that they discover however miniscule they may feel it is, upon discovery of said information.
Failure to comply with the ruling dealt out here in Saltwaterfish,com court will result in immediate incarceration in a fish tank no larger that 55 gallons with only a snorkle.
Court adjorned!
***slams gavel*****

 

[sw65galma]

lol back to neverland i go!

 

[fishieness]

hahahahaha!!!
i wanted to be on the jurrrrrryyyyyy!!!!

 

[shawnts106]

Well.. geeze, be negitive why dont cha!...
All I stated that I have heard of people keeping them (as in getting them to live and survive for more than a year) in refugium filtered systems...
DUH, we can keep them... sometimes... but duh.. most die... not what I stated above....
you people are going to think im a horrible evil dumb blankity blank blank person... buttttt.. Im getting on (sm/med) for my tank...
I have already bought clams and such for it.. and I do have live sponge growing.. mainly white Qtips and some black sponge and some yellow.... a bit of orange.. but not alot... I do have a refugium and my water quality is perfect... 0 everything (as far as pollutants go)... so This does give it a chance...
My reasoning is if... they are going to collect them... then you MIGHT AS WELL TRY TO SAVE THEM.. even for a year more of their life... heck... that beats sitting in a Dirty collection tub for a week.. then dieing!!!
what would you pick... Life for a year or life for a week??? YOU DECIDE!!!
I know I would pick life for a year... even if things werent my favorite.. like even if I didnt have air conditioning... or my favorite foods.. or such things.... get me????
this is just my reasoning.. like it or not.. I dont really care... but I just want to let everyone know this is how I THINK... and this is how I believe things are... just as you all are stating these things as such of not keeping them in anything less than 300 gallons etc........
I do want to TRY one... and this I PROMISE YOU!... if this one dies.. I may try 1 more.. .... then if that one dies NO MORE!!!
I do not plan on buying 100 of these fish to have 1 survive... I do the 2 fish rule and thats it... 50% of the time.. if not more stress from shipping is a killer... therefore I try 2 fish if one dies and if that one dies.. then TUFF ... I dont buy anymore!
but when it comes to corals... well... we just wont get on that soap box tonight!
oh, and yeah I know im bringing this post back from the dead LOL, but hey... who else would if I didnt! HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

 

[shawnts106]

Im getting on (sm/med) for my tank...
opps.... I mean Im getting one sm/med Morish Idol for my tank... etc.... lol