Morish Idol Help

[fishieness]

the question is not how long we can make them live in your tank compared to the tank of a LFS or someone else.
the question is why would we ENCOURAGE the capture and sale of such a fish that will die soon most likely no matter the quality of the water. Spounges you may have, but have you the spounges to support one for a long periode of time without him eating them all?! my guess is no.
what would you pick... Life for a year or life for a week??? YOU DECIDE!!
what would YOU pick; a life for a year (TOPS), or a long full life in the ocean? YOU decide....

 

[shawnts106]

the question is why would we ENCOURAGE the capture and sale of such a fish that will die soon most likely no matter the quality of the water. Spounges you may have, but have you the spounges to support one for a long periode of time without him eating them all?! my guess is no.
I do NOT encourage the capture and sale of these species of fish by any means!... I do have sponges.. and that will help buy it some time if it does eat them... it will help buy it some time to get it used to fish food, if it doesnt thats still more time that it would have verses staying in a collection tub or at the LFS.... and NO I do not have enough sponges for a lifetime for him to eat.. or long term... but a good start for a while!
what would YOU pick; a life for a year (TOPS), or a long full life in the ocean? YOU decide....

a full life in the ocean of course... but IF SOMEONE HAS ALREADY COLLECTED IT... AS IN A SUPPLYER... I DOUGHT THEY WILL RELEASE IT!!!... so I might as well BUY it and give it a year.. compaired to a possible week in a collection tub..
so... A year in a clean good quailty reef tank... or a week in a dirty nasty polluted tub.. YOU DECIDE!!! get my drift!!??!!??!!??

 

[fishieness]

no i dont
i can see that you do not like politics because you dont understand the idea of a boycott. you do not support collecting and selling this species of fish, yet you are going to go out and buy one......WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT IS?! If we as the aquarist do not buy this fish, then LFS's will stop selling them because no one wants them, then the collector will STOP COLLECTING THEM!
you buying a fish MAY give it a CHANCE to survive for about a year or so. But if many people do that (and i have seen many posts of people saying this exact thing that you are), then there will always be a demand. and what do LFS's do if there is a demand for a fish? THEY BUY MORE! And where do they buy it from? THE COLLECTOR! so then, you might ask what the collector must do to obtain these high-marketed fish.... THE COLLECT IT....DUH!! Buying one fish may give that one a small chance or surviveing for another year, but it also causes many many many more fish of the same species to be brought in and killed.
trust me, i think this is one of the, if not the most beutiful fish in the ocean. I would LOVE to be able to have one in my tank and look at him every day. and i know that i would become OBSESSED (even more than i already am) with makeing sure everything was perfect for him. But i know my boundries and i have thought out the consequeses....and i can see that you have not, and blocked out all the rest of the info that everyone else here has given you. you asked for it. we gave it. you ignored it.
get my drift?!!!

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
I do NOT encourage the capture and sale of these species of fish by any means!... I do have sponges.. and that will help buy it some time if it does eat them... it will help buy it some time to get it used to fish food, if it doesnt thats still more time that it would have verses staying in a collection tub or at the LFS.... and NO I do not have enough sponges for a lifetime for him to eat.. or long term... but a good start for a while!
a full life in the ocean of course... but IF SOMEONE HAS ALREADY COLLECTED IT... AS IN A SUPPLYER... I DOUGHT THEY WILL RELEASE IT!!!... so I might as well BUY it and give it a year.. compaired to a possible week in a collection tub..
so... A year in a clean good quailty reef tank... or a week in a dirty nasty polluted tub.. YOU DECIDE!!! get my drift!!??!!??!!??
What size tank do you have? the sponges you have will most likely be depeleted faster than they can grow, Also you MUST feed them 3 times a day.
They are very thin and cannot go long time without food.

 

[fishieness]

^

:yes:
a man that does his research!

 

[f1shman]

I agree fully with SW and Fishiness. Boycot these fish, everytime I see one in the LFS, I look away, knowing that someone will go "thats pretty" buy it, and have it die a year later.
I have one thing to say:
Shawnts you just got SERVED

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by F1shMan
I agree fully with SW and Fishiness. Boycot these fish, everytime I see one in the LFS, I look away, knowing that someone will go "thats pretty" buy it, and have it die a year later.
I have one thing to say:
Shawnts you just got SERVED

Ya if they can get it to live a year...very doubtful.
Remeber of the 90% mortality rate...that 10% is the ones that live a year. Less than 1/2 of 1% live longer.

 

[f1shman]

hehe ya, just wondering have you owned one yourself?

 

[scubadoo]

We have yet to gain an understanding regarding Moorish Idlos and their survival long-term in the home aquarium.
Some have posted a refugium is the key...but yet leave out what needs to be present in the refugium...macroalgae, live sand, live roxk, holy water?
All the info appearing in articles/websites by recognized pros discourage the keeping of these animals.
It is best to leave the research to larger aquariums and those with expertise to do same.
I am amazed at reading some of the posts..."I've heard stories"..yet no links to articles, quotes from recognized experts, etc. if you have a position contrary to main stream, it helps us all to document this position with fact. I encourage those to bring this documetation forward so we all can read and learn something.
Until such time someone can bring documented proof of a known discovery...these fish are better left in the ocean.
For those reading this, please ignore the "stories" and do your own research. In doing so, you will understand that these animals simply should be left in the ocean.
Continue to buy and they will continue to die and you will be frustrated. They will continue to be available to the public for purchase...as long as folks think they have the answer.
No one has posted what needs to be done to increase the chances for success..I will
Juveniles from Hawaiin waters have a slightly better chance. Buy an adult....your chances are ZERO
When the collector caught the animal they needed to get it eating within the first few hours (how do you know)...likewise when you get it home. SOn;t turn that light off and think you have 24 hours for acclimation and feeding.
Their thin like bodies mean they cannot survive long if they stop eating
They are easliy spooked for many reasons, known and unknown.
They need constant pristine water conditions...hope you do not have a power outage, bad salt mix or a simple error. Any minor fluctuation can do them in...can you keep your parameters this steady? Doubtful
Even given the above..chance for success is almost zero. You have lost the battle before the animal has even reached your system...so why not try something where odds for success are greater and leave the experimentation to those with the expertise?

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by F1shMan
hehe ya, just wondering have you owned one yourself?
Yes I Own one.

He gets feed 3 times a day by hand. I have someone who feeds him while i'm at work also. But like i said in the other posts...I don't condone the buying of these fish..
I purpose built my tank to house one...That was the reason for the 300 Gal..
My one single goal in life with this tank was to house this fish and 1 year of preparation went into it.
The tank ran for an entire Year Before i got it, 500lbs of LR it has to graze on, another 200lbs are in the Fuge that gets rotated in and out. Also has a 6" DSB
Again..don't try this at home.

 

[fishieness]

yeah! how is your idol doing?!
shawnts.... he has a 300 gallon tank and 700 pounds of live rock.... and you still havent awnsered on how big your tank is....he probably has a better chance

 

[f1shman]

AWESOME!!!! I always wanted to hand feed my fish, but with what I have its kind of hard: lionfish (poisnous) 2 triggers (biters) queen angel (won't come near my hand) maroon clown (stays by anemone) and yellow tang (shy because shes housed with really aggresive fish) lol. But that is so cool, can you like "pet" her while your feeding her, not like you'd want to, just wondering how comfortable she is with you, also what do you feed heR?

 

[f1shman]

he**

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by F1shMan
AWESOME!!!! I always wanted to hand feed my fish, but with what I have its kind of hard: lionfish (poisnous) 2 triggers (biters) queen angel (won't come near my hand) maroon clown (stays by anemone) and yellow tang (shy because shes housed with really aggresive fish) lol. But that is so cool, can you like "pet" her while your feeding her, not like you'd want to, just wondering how comfortable she is with you, also what do you feed heR?
Can't pet it yet...My Angel started the hand feeding and the Idol caught on. The emporer Angel is the Ruler of the tank. It follows me like a dog..no matter where I am it's right there. It's rough on you, you got to be ready for it, it doesn't hurt, but it feels like running a butter knife over your fingers and a pinching feeling.
The diet i have is the Froozen Formula One, Two, Angel with Sponge, Brine, Mysis and some other treats.

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by fishieness
yeah! how is your idol doing?!
shawnts.... he has a 300 gallon tank and 700 pounds of live rock.... and you still havent awnsered on how big your tank is....he probably has a better chance

It was in a 280 at the LFS. And like I said I purposly built this tank for the sole purpse of keeping an Idol. even all the rock was setup so the idol can swim around and under. things being so tall.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by sw65galma
Yes I Own one.

He gets feed 3 times a day by hand. I have someone who feeds him while i'm at work also. But like i said in the other posts...I don't condone the buying of these fish..
I purpose built my tank to house one...That was the reason for the 300 Gal..
My one single goal in life with this tank was to house this fish and 1 year of preparation went into it.
The tank ran for an entire Year Before i got it, 500lbs of LR it has to graze on, another 200lbs are in the Fuge that gets rotated in and out. Also has a 6" DSB
Again..don't try this at home.
Do you feed your Idol Pablo Tepoot's "Spectrum" Fish Foods? Iunderstand they eat this like it is a candy bar

 

[sankysyuck]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
a full life in the ocean of course... but IF SOMEONE HAS ALREADY COLLECTED IT... AS IN A SUPPLYER... I DOUGHT THEY WILL RELEASE IT!!!... so I might as well BUY it and give it a year.. compaired to a possible week in a collection tub..
so... A year in a clean good quailty reef tank... or a week in a dirty nasty polluted tub.. YOU DECIDE!!! get my drift!!??!!??!!??
You are looking at this point very closed-minded. Your saying you wouldn't buy one, but if you saw one in a pet store you would because it was caught and would not be released. I can see your sympathy torward the fish, but you have not thought this through correctly. If consumers did not want to buy the fish, then wouldn't sellers stop catching them to sell to fish stores? If you buy the fish, than pet store owners will buy more of them! This is just like vegetarians. If everybody in the world was a vegetarian, would we kill animals the way we do now? Of course not because know one would want to eat them! There would be nobody in the world buying meat therefor A WHOLE LOT MORE FREE ANIMALS! Not to mention healthier people... I'm not saying we should all stop buying the Moorish Idol, I do think more restrictions should be put on to people that buy them however.
Unfortunatly LFS do not give the correct information most of the time, and will lie just to sell you. There are many fish stores that I go to that simply avoid asking questions that way for example, you can buy your seahorse and they will never know you plan on putting it in a 100 gallon agressive tank so they can say "HEY-we never knew you were planning on putting it with aggressive fish, so it's not our fault" but technically it is. I know when I sell fish, I always question the buyer to make sure the proper care is being managed. I do think these fish can be sustained in the right tank if the proper care is managed, however, most people would buy them and treat them as any other fish just to take the chance.

 

[ophiura]

Shawnts, just how long have you had an SPS tank - how long have you kept your goniopora and Fromia star and corals and clams? I can look up the posts...but most, even then, had the same tone. The same invincible tone. This post may be harsh, and I apologize already, but I really really hope you will take some things to heart.
I know its not a year...I believe it is about 6 months....and just about everyone says that a year is the point of success. I know you are young, and so several months seems like an eternity. Six months to you is surely a year to someone old. Seems like a good measure of success. You feel that you can't fail. Don't need water changes. Untouchable. Immune. Know most keys to success in the hobby. It lends itself to confidence and perhaps one could say arrogance (reading your posts I think this is fairly obvious). But it is not an accomplishment, IMO, to brag "I've kept these..." (and leaving off the "6 months"). It demonstrates a certain naivety. It may be downright foolish...at the very least "jumping the gun." Six months is nothing when animals - like your star - are known to take 8-12 months to starve to death. It doesn't mean it WILL die, but it does not, IMO, that you've found the missing link. PLEASE Slow down. I'll beg. I'm not above it. Or eventually you will fail. You won't tell us. But you will fail. Because patience is critical. Be honest with yourself. If you want to be a scientist you have to learn this.
Please slow down. Please don't throw everone's experience, advice, etc into the gutter. Learn from it. Give your tank time to mature. People aren't saying these things to keep people from having what they want. People are saying it because of experience. People really want to help others succeed, even by saying "NO!"
Experiment when you have known basic minimums. If your tank was a 300g reef tank...well, knock yourself out with your moorish idol but know the limits. Or should I go out and put a moorish idol in my 45g tank? Let's say the moorish idol does fine in your tank for 6 months? A year? I had one in an LFS 50g tank eating like a pig for a year. What does it mean? Know the limits and faults of your "experiments" and you'll help more people, develop your own skills and make actual contributions to the hobby at large. You'll see that in the best of the "big names" in the hobby who I know you admire.
I do want to see you succeed with your SPS, and clams, and star, and yes, even Goniopora. I'm interested in those findings. But few people, even the "big names," you will notice, claim "victory" in keeping animals because they know that it is actually not so simple and something just down the road may kill them. There is always muted confidence. Then the experiment starts over. Muted confidence. Respect that they don't know everything about the animals, and certainly not in an artificial system.
This may fall on deaf ears. And there is no point, I am sure, in arguing any points of logic or why or why not to keep certain animals.

But someday, 6 months won't be a long time. Some day it will be 6 months until tax day or some big presentation or bill and it won't be such a long time anymore. I'm sorry Shawnts to sound so harsh, but it is the perception of what you are writing - which is equally harsh. And I'll beg you to slow down with the best of intentions. I know there is an allure in the "unkeepable" animals for you. But please understand the limits.
There is a discussion in the echinoderm right now on whether echinoderms age. Whether they do, in fact ever die of old age in the wild. They do not show typical signs of old age. Corals as well fall into the discussion. So 6 months, with this in mind, is nothing.

How about a compromise? How about you keep on truckin' with your goniopora, and hold off on the moorish until you get that 300g? :yes: Of course I wouldn't put it past you Shawnts to just say this for a little attention

 

[f1shman]

oph - you da woman (you are a woman right? lol)

 

[f1shman]

I can't get my queen angel to eat the angel formula, they bite it for a while and then let it sink to the bottom, and it sits there lol. My angel really only likes pellets, and everything but the lion and angel like the mysis, lion loves krill.