Morish Idol Help

[shawnts106]

my, ... my my my my myyyyyyyyyyy.. OH MY!... where where where to begin....
lets start here :
then LFS's will stop selling them because no one wants them, then the collector will STOP COLLECTING THEM!
My LFS does NOT sell them at all... but can special order one for someone who wants to...
I dont think alot of you people are understanding me here.... you see.... heres how it goes.. they collect them, regaurdless if there is a demad NOW or tomorow, they sit in tubs... nasty dirty tubs waiting for someone to buy one!.... most DIE in the tubs... now... IF I WAS TO BUY ONE... before it DIED and handed it a chance at 1 more year of living... in a tank, mainly because I cant afford to fly to hawaii.... then that FISH that ONE FISH has a CHANCE.... now since we ALL need to WAKE UP and relize that they are NEVER going to stop collecting them... mainly because there is ALWAYS going to be that one LFS that keeps getting them in!.. so we all should just through out the "boycotboycotboycot" blahdy blahdy blah and relized that this is NEVER going to happen untill they BAN the collection of this fish...
YES I DO HOPE THEY DO THAT... SO MORE DONT DIE!!!! butttttt... since thats not going to happen tomorow.. and EVEN IF IT DOES the ones they still have should and deserve a CHANCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTt LIFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe
get it?????? Hope so!
now.. moving onto a lighter note... No orph dont worry I am NOT calling sucess just yet... however keeping a goniopora and alveopora alive and thriving for THIS LONG is an achievement IMO... but not just yet a success!.... when I say thriving.. I believe that a coral that is GROWING and needs to be fragged and is REGROWING ONTO ROCK!!!.... as in attaching itsself to LIVEROCK... that is what I think is flourishing... IMO! and THRIVING... IMO! oh... did I say IMO!???!!!????!!!?
and yes the fromia is NOT a sucess just yet either... nor will it be untill Ive had it for over a year.... of course...
My outlook is, TRY and if you dont succeed, try again.. but dont make it to the point where your doing more harm than good... aka, try and keep a morish idol, if it dies you may try once more... but dont keep buying untill your up to your 50 fish mark and your still trying... then it becomes rediculous...
HELLO!
sw65galma
, you OWN ONE.. you took a risk.. YOU TRIED! see my point? are you still trying.. YES! and are you keeping it alive. YES.. that means it has just another day it lived! and can live again!
BTW: no MY TANK IS NOT perfect... yes my water quaility is, but being its only a 75 gallon with 150lbs or so of LR in there its a start... not a big, not a good, not the best start.. BUT A START... anddddd... If I can keep the poor IDOL Alive for more than another day then thats more than what it would have had in the COLLECTION TUB or a LFS somewhere... dont you see where im comming from? no I AM NOT CLOSED MINDED as SOME PEOPLE THINK... but I DO have my own opinions, as everyone does.. and I am a "tester"... which some of you dont agree with.. but thats just diversity... so deal !
im not getting on a soap box, or an alter and preaching that this is the way to do it and im the only one right here... we are all right, we all have our own opinions and we SHOULD ALL RESPECT ONE ANOTHERS and try to UNDERSTAND where the OTHER PERSON is comming from!...
have a jolly ol' day there peeps!
and... DEAL!

 

[shawnts106]

Geeze!
I'm sorry Shawnts to sound so harsh, but it is the perception of what you are writing - which is equally harsh.

thats ok.. I forgive you for shooting my opinions down the drain there orph.. your known to do this from time to time... as I am known to be very harsh and opinionated.. as we all can be sometimes ha he hooo
How about a compromise? How about you keep on truckin' with your goniopora, and hold off on the moorish until you get that 300g? Of course I wouldn't put it past you Shawnts to just say this for a little attention
Ok.. deal.. Ill keep on a "truckin" the gonis and alveos and... oh, opps read that wrong.. sorry Im still trying the Morish Idol... but only once.. maybe twice... thats better than most people.. I know of a ladie who has tried a cheveron tang 3 times.. died within days every time... she stoped because she had to move...
do I agree with it? NO its selfish to KEEP ON buying fish that you know dont ussually make it... thats why IM ONLY TRYING THIS ONCE OR TWICE NO MORE!
getting it now?
Dealing yet?

 

[sankysyuck]

I dont think alot of you people are understanding me here.... you see.... heres how it goes.. they collect them, regaurdless if there is a demad NOW or tomorow, they sit in tubs... nasty dirty tubs waiting for someone to buy one!.... most DIE in the tubs... now... IF I WAS TO BUY ONE... before it DIED and handed it a chance at 1 more year of living... in a tank, mainly because I cant afford to fly to hawaii.... then that FISH that ONE FISH has a CHANCE.... now since we ALL need to WAKE UP and relize that they are NEVER going to stop collecting them... mainly because there is ALWAYS going to be that one LFS that keeps getting them in!.. so we all should just through out the "boycotboycotboycot" blahdy blahdy blah and relized that this is NEVER going to happen untill they BAN the collection of this fish...
YES I DO HOPE THEY DO THAT... SO MORE DONT DIE!!!! butttttt... since thats not going to happen tomorow.. and EVEN IF IT DOES the ones they still have should and deserve a CHANCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTt LIFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe
get it?????? Hope so!
No, I'm afraid I don't get it. YOU need to wake up and resume a part of the mature fish-keeping world. You obviously do not like to play the part of being an activist.
Your like that commercial where everybody is standing around a piece of garbage right next to a trash barrel to which everybody around it are outraged that it is only a foot away from the barrel, but only argue about it's placement and do nothing. And then that boy comes along and picks it up and puts it in the trash. Remember that commercial?
Well anyhow, you cannot just assume that "this will never happen." Maybe it will? Who knows? Nonetheless, you should play your part, and not give in to buying of this fish.
Imagine if everyone was like you in the world? They'd have this same perspective and no one would refuse to buy it, causing even more to die from being captured. They'd all think "Well, it's just one, it's going to die anyways!"
Even though I am sure that this post will have not changed your opinion at all, I still feel it is my part to keep showing you the other side of this.

 

[darth tang]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
My LFS does NOT sell them at all... but can special order one for someone who wants to...
I dont think alot of you people are understanding me here.... you see.... heres how it goes.. they collect them, regaurdless if there is a demad NOW or tomorow, they sit in tubs... nasty dirty tubs waiting for someone to buy one!.... most DIE in the tubs... now... IF I WAS TO BUY ONE... before it DIED and handed it a chance at 1 more year of living... in a tank, mainly because I cant afford to fly to hawaii.... then that FISH that ONE FISH has a CHANCE.... now since we ALL need to WAKE UP and relize that they are NEVER going to stop collecting them... mainly because there is ALWAYS going to be that one LFS that keeps getting them in!.. so we all should just through out the "boycotboycotboycot" blahdy blahdy blah and relized that this is NEVER going to happen untill they BAN the collection of this fish...
YES I DO HOPE THEY DO THAT... SO MORE DONT DIE!!!! butttttt... since thats not going to happen tomorow.. and EVEN IF IT DOES the ones they still have should and deserve a CHANCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTt LIFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe
get it?????? Hope so!
and yes the fromia is NOT a sucess just yet either... nor will it be untill Ive had it for over a year.... of course...
My outlook is, TRY and if you dont succeed, try again.. but dont make it to the point where your doing more harm than good... aka, try and keep a morish idol, if it dies you may try once more... but dont keep buying untill your up to your 50 fish mark and your still trying... then it becomes rediculous...
HELLO! , you OWN ONE.. you took a risk.. YOU TRIED! see my point? are you still trying.. YES! and are you keeping it alive. YES.. that means it has just another day it lived! and can live again!
BTW: no MY TANK IS NOT perfect... yes my water quaility is, but being its only a 75 gallon with 150lbs or so of LR in there its a start... not a big, not a good, not the best start.. BUT A START... anddddd... If I can keep the poor IDOL Alive for more than another day then thats more than what it would have had in the COLLECTION TUB or a LFS somewhere... dont you see where im comming from? no I AM NOT CLOSED MINDED as SOME PEOPLE THINK... but I DO have my own opinions, as everyone does.. and I am a "tester"... which some of you dont agree with.. but thats just diversity... so deal !
im not getting on a soap box, or an alter and preaching that this is the way to do it and im the only one right here... we are all right, we all have our own opinions and we SHOULD ALL RESPECT ONE ANOTHERS and try to UNDERSTAND where the OTHER PERSON is comming from!...
have a jolly ol' day there peeps!
and... DEAL!
Basically you have shown yourself to be a pompous *&^ ! You are saying I may as well try since the fish is going to die anyway? Noble, but only if you have the right set up. It has been provenm they need a very large system to even survive a little bit. So your attempt of taking them from a LFS or the "tubs" is pointless, as they are going from one inadequate environment to your own in adequate environment. You know what that is like. Here is an example maybe you will understand:
A child is beaten everyday in the home he lives in with his parents. You wander along and see this and say, "Well, I would only beat that child every other day in my home. So I think the child should move in with me because I only beat children every other day.
Is the child better off? NO NO NO NO NO!
You are still hurting the fish! But instead of the LFS or collectors doing it, you have actually paid these guys money to continue the abuse. Is this truly noble? Not to mention, your LFS only special orders these fish. So not only are you NOT doing any good by saving a fish you ran accross, you are seeking out the fish intentionally to do harm because your environment is to small and inadequate to even attempt housing this fish. Hell while you are at, order a Mandain Goby since most of these are doomed to die as well in captivity. You could also add a Dragon Sea Moth to that list as well as about 10-15 other fish that are doomed to die. You are not doing this however with the Moorish Idol to be NOBLE. You are doing it to be selfish, otherwise you would try saving the other difficult species as well.
Like I said in the beginning, you are nothing but being a pompous *&^ !

 

[sw65galma]

And i just wanted to add with a regime like the one you posted...I doubt your water quality is "Superb" You don't test it enough to now the fluctuations...and there are fluctucation, you just don't test enough to know they are happening...these will doom your fish...
shawnts106
Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Alabama
Posts: 626
GAH... lol.. I sound like a bumb compaired to you guys.. maybe I should up my maintainence!
Daily I.... FIRST AND FORMOST.. wake up!!!
Check to see if the tank is still there and not fallen through the floor... continue to kitchen to get a drink... to use the bathroom...
then I look to make sure the fish are still Alive... look at the corals... and then leave the house... come home... feed the fish heavily... too much.. they are starting to get fat!... anyway!
watch my coral beauty and flame angel eat the cabbage leather... duh.....
watch the damsels attach each other... go to bed
Basically What I do.. is when I notice the tank is white with bubbles, I know it need water.. and when I can no longer make sure the corals and fish are alive and see the damsels attack each other then I wipe the glass useing a of course... magfloat!
dang... im a bumb!
but my tank water stays fine and water quailty is great..
pH 8.2-8.4
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrates: 0ppm
phosphates: 0ppm
Salinity: 1.025
temp around 75 to 78
Ca: varys... stays from 450 to 510ppm
Alk: varys ... stays from 2.5 to 6... depends on how I feel... lol
yup.. thats pretty much it..
BUT WEEKLY I do alot more
Twice weekly I top off.. with tap water ( our tap here in Eastaboga Alabama is very good) very low in pollutants if any... but I do use PRIME to make sure everything is good!
Feed fish once to twice a day
Make sure the current is right in the tank...
scrub algae
feed DTS of COURSE!!!
dont skim so I dont need to do anything of that weird nature! haha
Check to see if the Calurpa havn't MORPHED and grown out of the tank to kill everything in sight... ( ok dumb joke..moveing on!)
make sure all the powerheads and main filter arent clogged!
watch the amphipods and mysis shrimp scurry for their lives as I just look at them!
move anything that has fallen.. which is rare!
check Nitrates/Alk/pH
buff if needed, which is ussually does!
change current direction sometimes to spice things up! LOL!!!
thats about it....
And I only do water changes every 3 to 5 months.... I do a 30 gallon water change for my 75gallon tank every 3 to 5 months.. dont believe in them..... unless needed... and even then they really dont need it... but I do to stire up the sandbed and to replace any trace elements that have long since been lost!
I try and use TROPIC MARIN PRO REEF SALT AMAP!.... but sometimes have to settle for redsea or instant ocean.. I REFUSE TO USE THAT DA.... YOU KNOW OCEANIC!!!!... worst stuff Ive ever used in my life!! to much Mg IMO... but anyway!
my tank seems to do fine... everything as healthy as ever... fish, coral.. inverts... Concidering I can keep Goniopora and Alveopora corals.. as well as a fromia star.. so far... and SPS and clams and such.. Im not really worried!
thanks for reading this really long post!... that alone is a HUGE accomplishment for you! hhehehehehe
and BTW: I know I cant spell worth a crap!... oh well! LMBO!

Like i said, after hearing this...i wouldn't by any means think of you as an Expert, trying this Expert Only fish...

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by Darth Tang
Basically you have shown yourself to be a pompous *&^ ! You are saying I may as well try since the fish is going to die anyway? Noble, but only if you have the right set up. It has been provenm they need a very large system to even survive a little bit. So your attempt of taking them from a LFS or the "tubs" is pointless, as they are going from one inadequate environment to your own in adequate environment. You know what that is like. Here is an example maybe you will understand:
A child is beaten everyday in the home he lives in with his parents. You wander along and see this and say, "Well, I would only beat that child every other day in my home. So I think the child should move in with me because I only beat children every other day.
Is the child better off? NO NO NO NO NO!
You are still hurting the fish! But instead of the LFS or collectors doing it, you have actually paid these guys money to continue the abuse. Is this truly noble? Not to mention, your LFS only special orders these fish. So not only are you NOT doing any good by saving a fish you ran accross, you are seeking out the fish intentionally to do harm because your environment is to small and inadequate to even attempt housing this fish. Hell while you are at, order a Mandain Goby since most of these are doomed to die as well in captivity. You could also add a Dragon Sea Moth to that list as well as about 10-15 other fish that are doomed to die. You are not doing this however with the Moorish Idol to be NOBLE. You are doing it to be selfish, otherwise you would try saving the other difficult species as well.
Like I said in the beginning, you are nothing but being a pompous *&^ !
We don't want to get into name calling.
Plus arguing isn't really going to change life and the way people think. State your facts and be done.

 

[ophiura]

Shawnts - I did not shoot your opinions down the drain. You should reread my post. It had very very very little to do with your opinions on moorish idols or goniopora which you are most certainly entitled to. :yes:
Also learn to identify "discussion" and "exchange of ideas" and "disagreeing" which is what the boards are about! I do very strongly disagree with you, and you can disagree right back!

If you could come on here and calmly and rationally explain your reasons for doing something that is counter the general trend (lose the arrogance), prove that you have a minimum requirement to even hope to keep some of these long term, and be mature about reserved about it...I bet you'll find a more willing audience. How you present yourself is half the battle in winning the argument...
See, while I disagree very strongly with keeping moorish idols in principle, I think you can see we (sw65galma and I) had a pretty mature disagreement and exchange going on it in this thread, and in the end I am not going to bad mouth the guy for trying. (I will bad mouth him because he has a 300g tank though, that clearly should be in my living room).
I really wish you the best with your Goniopora and Fromia. Really I do! I don't think it is "experimenting" and so I like to see the results with this emphasis in mind. And I'll be very interested in a year. :yes: Keep a photo diary and specifics on your husbandry to really contribute. :cheer:
If you want to keep a moorish idol, knock yourself out, but please don't come here in a week and say how great it is that you can keep a moorish idol! Know your limits. And it helps people most when they know the true extent of experience and success as well. Moorish Idols, IMO like Goniopora, probably should be in the "keep it 2 years to claim a success" catagory. Seriously, read your favorite hobbyist pros and see how most have this "reserved" confidence in their findings. :yes:
And I agree, let's not get into the name calling...I don't think it gets us anywhere. :nope:
Dang, no "nope" anymore? And no rolleyes?

What is the world coming to. And what IS this --> h*

 

[darth tang]

I apologize for the name calling. I just grow tired of people giving advise and stating facts and people blatantly ignoring them just to fulfill a selfish goal. SW, your owning an Idol I am Ok with as you have done a lot of research and set up a tank especially for the fish with the intention of research and success by providing an adequate environment based off of the research and information given to you beforehand. I dislike someone using the pretence of "saving" fish when they are special ordering the fish in question without the intention of placing that fish in an adequately sized environment. Not to mention the attitude the poster has put forth towards other posters when called or confronted on this decision based off of their own past "expertise".

 

[f1shman]

Man sw I can't get over your idol, that tank looks so awesome for it, your taking such good care of it, it looks so happy, and no one has ever done the same!!! u da man

 

[f1shman]

sw65 I have one last question, how long have you kept yours? You can go in the book of records!!!! "Longest Lived Moorish Idol In An Aquarium"

 

[darth tang]

SW65 is running on about 6-8 weeks with his Moorish Idol. In 4 more weeks I would like an update on if anything has been learned.

 

[molamola]

What's the average life span of a Moorish Idol anyway? -->

<-- this thing's awesome!

 

[f1shman]

In captivity? Out of everyone that has ever had one. Probably 2 months. In the ocean, I'm not sure, but I'd love to know!!!

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by MolaMola
-->

<-- this thing's awesome!
Oh sure, be positive. No rolleyes, no "nope" not even the simple I had gotten over the fact that did not result in a full blown smiley. But having to put three ) in a row to get the big grin guy? Huh? Where is the logic in that. And I still want to know this --> h* Is it some guy underwater or something?
However, I like

him.

 

[darth tang]

This and the other thread forced me to do a little research of my own. I ran accross a website that had was styled as a message board, in it a guy claimed to have kept 3 moorish Idols for three years before releasing them back in the wild. While the release irks me, I read he caught all three together himself. Might help tie into the "mate" factor. He also had a 400 gallon set up. Apparently he caught them next to a sewage drain dump or something of the like so maybe these were hardier than others due to a poor living environment. Anyway, Just trying to be helpful.

 

[molamola]

I was just wondering the life span because most of them are fairly large when they are sold, and maybe they're old geezers
-->

<-- This one concerns me a little bit.

 

[mimzy]

Ophiura - when are you writing a book, and how can I TOTALY get on the waiting list????
:jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by MolaMola
I was just wondering the life span because most of them are fairly large when they are sold, and maybe they're old geezers
-->

<-- This one concerns me a little bit.
Research indicates almost all Idols in captive never will reach a full life as they would in the wild. I acutailly read an article where they state ZERO will reach a full life span in captivity.
Most if not all the non-juvenile Idols sold to the home aquarist will be dead within a year...or skightly over a year.with possibly a few lightning in the bottle successes. hard to quantify but you denitely see a consensus among many of the recognized experts in the hobby.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Darth Tang
This and the other thread forced me to do a little research of my own. I ran accross a website that had was styled as a message board, in it a guy claimed to have kept 3 moorish Idols for three years before releasing them back in the wild. While the release irks me, I read he caught all three together himself. Might help tie into the "mate" factor. He also had a 400 gallon set up. Apparently he caught them next to a sewage drain dump or something of the like so maybe these were hardier than others due to a poor living environment. Anyway, Just trying to be helpful.
No way to quantify any stories here or on other sites. While some or true, I suspect many are fairy tales. This one could be true..and could be a three littlepigs/three little Moorish Idol fairy tale.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
I dont think alot of you people are understanding me here.... you see.... heres how it goes.. they collect them, regaurdless if there is a demad NOW or tomorow, they sit in tubs... nasty dirty tubs waiting for someone to buy one!.... most DIE in the tubs... now... IF I WAS TO BUY ONE... before it DIED and handed it a chance at 1 more year of living... in a tank, mainly because I cant afford to fly to hawaii.... then that FISH that ONE FISH has a CHANCE.... now since we ALL need to WAKE UP and relize that they are NEVER going to stop collecting them... mainly because there is ALWAYS going to be that one LFS that keeps getting them in!.. so we all should just through out the "boycotboycotboycot" blahdy blahdy blah and relized that this is NEVER going to happen untill they BAN the collection of this fish...
YES I DO HOPE THEY DO THAT... SO MORE DONT DIE!!!! butttttt... since thats not going to happen tomorow.. and EVEN IF IT DOES the ones they still have should and deserve a CHANCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTt LIFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe
get it?????? Hope so!
No, I'm afraid I don't get it. YOU need to wake up and resume a part of the mature fish-keeping world. You obviously do not like to play the part of being an activist.
Your like that commercial where everybody is standing around a piece of garbage right next to a trash barrel to which everybody around it are outraged that it is only a foot away from the barrel, but only argue about it's placement and do nothing. And then that boy comes along and picks it up and puts it in the trash. Remember that commercial?
Well anyhow, you cannot just assume that "this will never happen." Maybe it will? Who knows? Nonetheless, you should play your part, and not give in to buying of this fish.
Imagine if everyone was like you in the world? They'd have this same perspective and no one would refuse to buy it, causing even more to die from being captured. They'd all think "Well, it's just one, it's going to die anyways!"
Even though I am sure that this post will have not changed your opinion at all, I still feel it is my part to keep showing you the other side of this.

I beleive I can explain the position. Fisrt, many lfs's will stock these animals....not all are special order. The way most econmies work in the free world ...supply and demand. If there is a demand for an animal the collector will stock them. If there is little or no demand, the collector will cease collecting the animal or drastically reduce the numbers collected. He/she cannot afford to collect animals and not be able to move them to retailers.
No collector wants to have animals sitting with no demand or little demand. This equals lost monay and profit reduction . Your postion is counter to how our economy works and defies logic in general. There must be a demand first...if the demand goes away or reduces the collecting will be reduced or cease.
ECONOMICS 101