Movie theater shooting

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483916
Say what? Guns smuggled INTO the US? Try the other way around. Trust me, there's no need to smuggle guns into the US. Just look at the people on this forum who have a treasure trove of weapons in their possession as we speak.
There are some guns that come in now but not a lot. That would quickly change if there were ever a gun ban here.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483916
Say what? Guns smuggled INTO the US? Try the other way around. Trust me, there's no need to smuggle guns into the US. Just look at the people on this forum who have a treasure trove of weapons in their possession as we speak.
Friend, I recall somewhere on this thread that you said you were a pacifist, that means you make a stand to not stand up for yourself. You can preach until you are blue in the face and others are not going to see your point of view. You won't scare anyone into thinking that weapons are not needed, the more you talk of the crazies and murderers being out there ready to pounce and open fire....the more folks want to defend themselves. At this point I am almost tempted to get a gun for protection myself...LOL

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerth6932 http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483881
Bio..... Quit ignoring this request of you..... 9/11.... NO guns were used. 2800 individuals killed.
If guns were "mass murder" weapons as you portray them, why have terriorists not used them on american soil to kill, "mass" numbers of people?
A gun, with out a finger on the trigger, is not a threat. The gun didn't walk its self i there and cause this. A person did. A sick individual.
I would say say it to those families. A gun did not walk in there and kill them, A PERSON DID! I own several guns, does that mean I am capable of doing this? NO! I don;t see them putting the guns on trial, I don't think the guns will get the death penalty. Nope, they are incapable emotion and action. They only respond to human input. Those guns weren't sold loaded. He bought the guns, he loaded the guns and he fired the guns.
Uh, anyone who owns a gun is capable of doing this. This kid didn't fit ANY profile of a serial killer or someone who had a history of violence or a criminal record. He's not cooperating with officials, and no one has a clue why he did this. Was it a personal traumatic event? Was it some form of rejection? Some form of played out fantasy? All it takes is one of these situations to occur, and a gun owner is a potential killing machine. You're dillusional if you think that just because you've never been violent, you're incapable of doing so. People are killed every day in family or personal disputes with a gun. We had two deaths regarding family disputes just in the last couple of weeks here in San Antonio. Were they "responsible gun owners" before something snapped and drove them to kill a friend or one of their own family members?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483919
There are some guns that come in now but not a lot. That would quickly change if there were ever a gun ban here.
What type of guns come into the US that are not easily accessible to anyone who wants to purchase one? So I guess we have some black market that caters specifically to the criminal where they can purchase illegal weapons. What's the web site http://getyourillegalgunshere.com?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483917
No Darth, I live in a world of reality. The majority of these individuals who carry concealed weapons wouldn't have the slightest clue how to respond in a situation such as this. Oh really? A lot of ex military with CCW's. They talk the big talk as they brag about how they could've taken this guy down, but the reality of it is if they were in this situation, all they would've accomplished is getting themselves killed. You can go through all the classes you want that teach you what you SHOULD do when faced with the possibility of using your weapon. But when the time actually comes where you do have to draw upon an individual whose pointing a weapon at you, the majority of individuals will freeze. In the scenario of this theatre incident, I can guarantee you that not one untrained individual would've been capable of accessing the situation in the matter of SECONDS they would've had to respond or determine what to do. With this guy spraying an unlit movie theatre at anything that moved, you wouldn't have had the time to take off the safety, get in a position where you could get close to an accurate shot before 5 or 10 bullets came heading you way. When faced with the element of surprise, even a trained individual whose actually had to draw their weapon and shoot someone, is at a severe disadvantage and rarely has a positive outcome on their part. Many concealed carriers have this false sense of security with the mindset that just because they have this weapon on their side, they're invincible to any kind of attack or confrontation with an aggresive or violent individual. You know this how? You have a better chance of getting killed when confronting an aggressor with a weapon than you are without. Take car jackings. You talk to any expert, and they will tell you that if someone comes up to you with a weapon wanting to steal your car, you back away, get out, and let them have the vehicle. There are very few situations where a concealed carrier would have the opportunity to access their weapon to deter this type of crime.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483923
What type of guns come into the US that are not easily accessible to anyone who wants to purchase one? So I guess we have some black market that caters specifically to the criminal where they can purchase illegal weapons. What's the web site http://getyourillegalgunshere.com?
Full autos and really cheap handguns. It's scary expensive to legally buy a full auto here and you had better be a choir boy to pass the background check.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483921
Uh, anyone who owns a gun is capable of doing this. This kid didn't fit ANY profile of a serial killer or someone who had a history of violence or a criminal record. He's not cooperating with officials, and no one has a clue why he did this. Was it a personal traumatic event? Was it some form of rejection? Some form of played out fantasy? All it takes is one of these situations to occur, and a gun owner is a potential killing machine. You're dillusional if you think that just because you've never been violent, you're incapable of doing so. People are killed every day in family or personal disputes with a gun. We had two deaths regarding family disputes just in the last couple of weeks here in San Antonio. Were they "responsible gun owners" before something snapped and drove them to kill a friend or one of their own family members?
Seriously...you really think not having a gun in the house will fix that? The hurt and death from angry people in your own household...a bang to the head is the usual method of death when a family member looses it...a skillet, a poker from the fireplace, a heavy ashtry (back in the 60s not so many smokers now with fancy ashtrays in the house)...and don't forget good ol stangulation with the bare hands method.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483920
Friend, I recall somewhere on this thread that you said you were a pacifist, that means you make a stand to not stand up for yourself. You can preach until you are blue in the face and others are not going to see your point of view. You won't scare anyone into thinking that weapons are not needed, the more you talk of the crazies and murderers being out there ready to pounce and open fire....the more folks want to defend themselves. At this point I am almost tempted to get a gun for protection myself...LOL
Flower, there are times and places where you take a stand to defend yourself. I own a couple of weapons that I keep at home. If someone were to physically break into my home, I would defend myself accordingly. However, I don't see the advantage of trying to carry a weapon wherever I go in the fear that someone MAY attack me. With them having the advantage of the element of surprise, in most cases it would be an effort infutility to try and react to defend myself with a weapon. Most people in those situations would have a high probability of getting killed, rather than cooperating with the assailant and letting them have what they want. Are there scenarios where someone carrying a gun has averted being violated or assailed? Of course there is. That's because they had the element of surprise, not the other way around.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483924
Are you an ex-military person with weapons experience? You have some states like Texas pushing legislation to allow college kids to conceal carry on campuses. Are you going to tell me some 22 year old girl whose only "training" was firing a few clips into a paper target at a gun range would have the experience to handle a situation like what occurred in this movie theatre?
Just read the comments from posters on this forum who conceal carry. You have Jerth with this mindset that if anyone had a weapon in that theatre that night, they could've averted this situation, when in reality, the only thing they would've accomplished was getting themselves killed.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483926
Seriously...you really think not having a gun in the house will fix that? The hurt and death from angry people in your own household...a bang to the head is the usual method of death when a family member looses it...a skillet, a poker from the fireplace, a heavy ashtry (back in the 60s not so many smokers now with fancy ashtrays in the house)...and don't forget good ol stangulation with the bare hands method.
There was an incident here a couple of weeks ago where some guy confronted his girlfriend in her apartment with yet another guy he didn't know about. He left, came back a few hours later with a gun, and killed them both.

 

[bionicarm]

Guess you can't take your kids to the playground any longer...
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/23/12903602-4-year-old-boy-shot-dead-on-nyc-playground?lite&__utma=14933801.1795512979.1342443245.1343045217.1343050872.18&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1343050872&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1342443245.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none)&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Ccover=1^12=Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=www.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Earned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=145461812

 

[mantisman51]

So, every time of these threads come up, they expose the real thinking of far-left Obamaniacs. I just read the highlighted quotes, but I must say there are more lies packed into those highlighted quotes than I have seen in a years worth of New York Times/Brady Campaign propaganda. More likely to have your weapon used against you? That right there isn't just a lie, it's retardation. Generally the mere drawing of a weapon sends a criminal(and just about anyone) fleeing. Also, it has been posted several times by myself and others, the (in)Justice Department(who is no friend of the 2nd Amendment) shows there are on average 2.5 million times a year legal firearms are used to stop crime. That is a fact that has been undisputed by even the ATF who's primary raison d'etre is gun control. Freedom requires a certain level of intelligence and common sense. Some folks simply don't have the capacity to comprehend it.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/120#post_3483932
Guess you can't take your kids to the playground any longer...
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/23/12903602-4-year-old-boy-shot-dead-on-nyc-playground?lite&__utma=14933801.1795512979.1342443245.1343045217.1343050872.18&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1343050872&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1342443245.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none)&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Ccover=1^12=Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=www.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Earned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=145461812
My daughter was so concerned about her blood presure (she had a headache) so I went out and purchased a kit just so it would put her mind to rest...that was a mistsake. She took her blood pressure constantly and made herself sick with worry. Her pressure was fine but she kept checking just to be sure...she drove me nuts taking it..I gave the kit to the grandkids to play with and now my daughter has to go all the way to the local CVS to check her pressure when she visits. LOL...she has 5 small children, an infant and a teenager..making 6 kids, she has a headache...I can guess why...LOL
I told you this little story for a reason....Some people can't handle the world around them, they just auto stress on anything new or different. You are one of those people who should not read the newspaper or watch the news. Like my daughter you just sit around and stress yourself out with worry.
While I don't think it's a good idea to bury your head in the sand...for YOU, it would be theraputic. You can go to the movies, you can swim in the ocean, you can take your children to the park...could a nut open fire? It's unlikely but it could happen. You can't let such things dictate your life. If you are not cheating on your spouse/special friend, they have no reason to kill you...be it a gun or a skillet.
RELAX my friend, you will live longer. Stress kills more people than anything else...it causes heart problems, weight gain and a slew of other health issues such as ulcers. You are more likely to die from that then a boogeyman with a gun.

 

[bender77]

Quote:
RELAX my friend, you will live longer. Stress kills more people than anything else...it causes heart problems, weight gain and a slew of other health issues such as ulcers. You are more likely to die from that then a boogeyman with a gun.
I think I'm going to put this as my Facebook status. I love it!!

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483928
Are you an ex-military person with weapons experience? You have some states like Texas pushing legislation to allow college kids to conceal carry on campuses. Are you going to tell me some 22 year old girl whose only "training" was firing a few clips into a paper target at a gun range would have the experience to handle a situation like what occurred in this movie theatre?
Just read the comments from posters on this forum who conceal carry. You have Jerth with this mindset that if anyone had a weapon in that theatre that night, they could've averted this situation, when in reality, the only thing they would've accomplished was getting themselves killed.
All you do is make assumptions and excuses. Most people holding CCW's have been through training because it's a requirement, one I happen to agree with. It is very possible a person in the theater with a gun could have taken down this clown after he had fired few rounds. I am not speaking in absolutes like you do. One thing we know for sure, with nobody armed there was no chance that someone could stop him.
I have never in my life carried a gun on my person. I have carried one in my car for years. Had one occasion to pull it and simply displaying it as enough to defuse the situation. But looking at the evidence CCW is a great deterrent to crime so I fully support those who do want to carry.
Interesting side note. The drum on the AR jammed up on the guy. Guess it's a good thing the guy was able to buy that instead of just using multiple 10 or 15 round mags.They almost never jam.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/120#post_3483936
My daughter was so concerned about her blood presure (she had a headache) so I went out and purchased a kit just so it would put her mind to rest...that was a mistsake. She took her blood pressure constantly and made herself sick with worry. Her pressure was fine but she kept checking just to be sure...she drove me nuts taking it..I gave the kit to the grandkids to play with and now my daughter has to go all the way to the local CVS to check her pressure when she visits. LOL...she has 5 small children, an infant and a teenager..making 6 kids, she has a headache...I can guess why...LOL
I told you this little story for a reason....Some people can't handle the world around them, they just auto stress on anything new or different. You are one of those people who should not read the newspaper or watch the news. Like my daughter you just sit around and stress yourself out with worry.
While I don't think it's a good idea to bury your head in the sand...for YOU, it would be theraputic. You can go to the movies, you can swim in the ocean, you can take your children to the park...could a nut open fire? It's unlikely but it could happen. You can't let such things dictate your life. If you are not cheating on your spouse/special friend, they have no reason to kill you...be it a gun or a skillet.
RELAX my friend, you will live longer. Stress kills more people than anything else...it causes heart problems, weight gain and a slew of other health issues such as ulcers. You are more likely to die from that then a boogeyman with a gun.
Flower, I don't stress about it in the least. I actually don't live a life of paranoai wondering if someone is going to shoot me dead the next corner I turn. I stay aware of my surroundings, and act acoordingly. My examples just show that gun violence has become a daily occurrance in this country, whether it's a domestic dispute, some rival gang bangers having there weekly shoot-outs, or some nutjob walking into a full movie theater with enough weapons to start a war. People want to protect their rights of gun ownership on the premise that one day someone MAY attempt to cause them harm. Seems to me you'd be more stressed out worrying what may happen, than simply just not worrying about it at all. I'm traveling to Mexico the rest of this week, and I'm not concerned in the least about getting shot, and there's more gun violence down there than you'd dream about in the US. I'm aware of the routes I take to get to the facilities I need to get to, and I usually take paths with a large presense of Federales patroling the areas I'm going to. Could I get hit randomly by some cartel shooting? Always a posibility down there. But there's nothing I can do about it, so why stress the small stuff?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/120#post_3483942
All you do is make assumptions and excuses. Most people holding CCW's have been through training because it's a requirement, one I happen to agree with. It is very possible a person in the theater with a gun could have taken down this clown after he had fired few rounds. I am not speaking in absolutes like you do. One thing we know for sure, with nobody armed there was no chance that someone could stop him.
I have never in my life carried a gun on my person. I have carried one in my car for years. Had one occasion to pull it and simply displaying it as enough to defuse the situation. But looking at the evidence CCW is a great deterrent to crime so I fully support those who do want to carry.
Interesting side note. The drum on the AR jammed up on the guy. Guess it's a good thing the guy was able to buy that instead of just using multiple 10 or 15 round mags.They almost never jam.
When the drum jammed, that's when he decided to walk out of the theater. If he'd had clips, he'd probably stayed in there shooting more innocent victims. Then again, he probably knew the logistics of carrying multiple clips, and the problem with trying to change them out in a dark movie theatre. The guy knew what he was doing, and what to expect.
I know several people who've been through a CCW class. None of htem were required to go through any intensive training to teach them how to handle a scenario like the one that occurred in this movie theatre.
The guy had ballistic protection from head to toe - flack jacket, ballistic helmet, groin protector, neck protector, ballistic leggings. Those are not assumptions. Those are absolutes. Trying to "fire a few rounds" in a room filled with tear gas, and people yelling, screaming and running for cover would be an daunting task for a professional, much less someone that took some quickie course on how to pull the trigger of their weapon when faced with a basic aggressive attack. The only thing some CCW carrier would've accomplished is hitting some innocent victim and getting himself killed. Paint any rosey picture you want. That's an absolute. Just go ask any person who does carry for a living and let them tell you otherwise.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/120#post_3483977
When the drum jammed, that's when he decided to walk out of the theater. If he'd had clips, he'd probably stayed in there shooting more innocent victims. Then again, he probably knew the logistics of carrying multiple clips, and the problem with trying to change them out in a dark movie theatre. The guy knew what he was doing, and what to expect.
I know several people who've been through a CCW class. None of htem were required to go through any intensive training to teach them how to handle a scenario like the one that occurred in this movie theatre.
The guy had ballistic protection from head to toe - flack jacket, ballistic helmet, groin protector, neck protector, ballistic leggings. Those are not assumptions. Those are absolutes. Trying to "fire a few rounds" in a room filled with tear gas, and people yelling, screaming and running for cover would be an daunting task for a professional, much less someone that took some quickie course on how to pull the trigger of their weapon when faced with a basic aggressive attack. The only thing some CCW carrier would've accomplished is hitting some innocent victim and getting himself killed. Paint any rosey picture you want. That's an absolute. Just go ask any person who does carry for a living and let them tell you otherwise.
I know certified CCW instructors in 2 different states. Both are required to to instruct people how to shoot as well as WHEN to shoot. Now that's not to say Texas doesn't halfass their CCW class, I don't know.
When the drum jammed he switched over to the pistols and I assume shotgun, Witnesses mentioned pauses where the guy they assumed was reloading. Don't know if that was loading a new clip or going to a different gun/
Again, body armor will usually stop a bullet but you are still going to be struck by an object moving at a tremendous amount of speed. Odds are about ZERO that you wont stop whatever you are doing when you take a hit and more likely than not you will be knocked off your feet.

 

[mantisman51]

Reef, you're actually going to try logic and reason with a guy who will start lying and making up stats when cornered? Here's a true stat: since Arizona eliminated the need for any kind of permit or license for open or concealed carry, violent crime in public places have gone down, and by a bunch. Now the murder rate has remained about the same, but it is still mostly friends and family doing the killing and not in public places. And those murders tend to be done with whatever is close and handy in homes anyway. So no, I wouldn't concede an inch to (EDITED FOR POLITENESS) him. There is no statistic or even anecdotal evidence to support his contention.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/120#post_3483984
Reef, you're actually going to try logic and reason with a guy who will start lying and making up stats when cornered? Here's a true stat: since Arizona eliminated the need for any kind of permit or license for open or concealed carry, violent crime in public places have gone down, and by a bunch. Now the murder rate has remained about the same, but it is still mostly friends and family doing the killing and not in public places. And those murders tend to be done with whatever is close and handy in homes anyway. So no, I wouldn't concede an inch to King Bigot. There is no statistic or even anecdotal evidence to support his contention.
Years ago there was a survey of jailed criminals. By a large margin they said their biggest fear was encountering an armed citizen while committing a crime. Most people don't understand that police don't prevent crime. at least not very often. Jail isn't a huge deterrent anymore either thanks to the bleeding hearts who think convicted criminals deserve a comfortable existence behind bars.
However I still don't like not having some sort of training for people being able to carry.