Movie theater shooting

mantisman51

Active Member
I get that. The reason the legislature repealed the licensing requirement is because the (in)Justice Department did a large study on the efficacy of licensing and permits on firearm use and found no statistical data that showed it lowered accidental shootings(which happens far less with civilians than trained police officers). Most people here still get the CCW permit, because in Arizona if you have a CCW permit you can still carry in businesses that are posted "no firearms" and the 28 states that have reciprocal agreements with Arizona only recognize those with CCW permits-Texas and Colorado are two such states. But if you don't have a CCW permit you have to obey the "no firearms" businesses and cannot CCW in states that reciprocate with Arizona.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/120#post_3483982
I know certified CCW instructors in 2 different states. Both are required to to instruct people how to shoot as well as WHEN to shoot. Now that's not to say Texas doesn't halfass their CCW class, I don't know.
When the drum jammed he switched over to the pistols and I assume shotgun, Witnesses mentioned pauses where the guy they assumed was reloading. Don't know if that was loading a new clip or going to a different gun/
Again, body armor will usually stop a bullet but you are still going to be struck by an object moving at a tremendous amount of speed. Odds are about ZERO that you wont stop whatever you are doing when you take a hit and more likely than not you will be knocked off your feet.
How would knowing WHEN to shoot in this situation changed anything? He was spraying the entire theatre in the dark. You'd never have an opportunity to fire, and you know it. You're telling me someone wearing kevlar ballistic material would get "knocked of his feet" by a 9mm or .308? Like to see that one. The entire incident was over in less than 2 minutes. Before you had the guts to pull out your weapon and try to find an opportune moment to fire, it was over. There's NO civiilian training that could prepare the normal CCW carrier for this situation. You know it, but just don't want to admit it.
 

mantisman51

Active Member
http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/kdowst/competen.html
This is from the University of Hartford, but I have read this on the U.S. Department of (in)Justice website with more recent data, but am having trouble finding it again-most like another "inconvenient truth" The Messiah and Holder have hid away. But anyway, every statistic and data shows loosened gun laws for citizens lowers crime and it is both ignorant and vicious of anyone to try and stop people from defending themselves. Only a near-communist(or full-blown commie) thinks government power trumps an individuals right to at least have a chance to defend one's self.
 

mantisman51

Active Member
"Another study examined newspaper reports of gun incidents in Missouri, involving police or civilians. In this study, civilians were successful in wounding, driving off, capturing criminals 83% of the time, compared with a 68% success rate for the police. Civilians intervening in crime were slightly less likely to be wounded than were police. Only 2% of shootings by civilians, but 11% of shootings by police, involved an innocent person mistakenly thought to be a criminal. [145]"
Those are the numbers that most refute liberal anti-gun nuts. And those are Federal statistics, not NRA or Republican numbers.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
I'll love to hear the spin you put on this report. Nothin' like protecting your 2nd Amendment rights by being allowed to purchase a .50 caliber sniper rifle capable of bringing down a helicopter at your local Arizona Wal-Mart parking lot in the middle of the night. The two admitted that they'd FAIL a federal background check, and the seller's could care less. Money in the pocket, and you could be handing the next Osama Bin Laden the weapon needed to bring down the POTUS or any other innocent person...
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp=48283194#48283194
 

mantisman51

Active Member
When one can't use facts to support one's beliefs, obfuscate. Liberals would be hilarious if they weren't so dangerous to America and our rights as citizens and not subjects.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/120#post_3484002
When one can't use facts to support one's beliefs, obfuscate. Liberals would be hilarious if they weren't so dangerous to America and our rights as citizens and not subjects.
Riiight. Explain the report I posted. Those are FACTS. You're just blinded by your Right Wing ignorance to see the obvious.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
No Darth, I live in a world of reality.  The majority of these individuals who carry concealed weapons wouldn't have the slightest clue how to respond in a situation such as this.  They talk the big talk as they brag about how they could've taken this guy down, but the reality of it is if they were in this situation, all they would've accomplished is getting themselves killed.  You can go through all the classes you want that teach you what you SHOULD do when faced with the possibility of using your weapon. But when the time actually comes where you do have to draw upon an individual whose pointing a weapon at you, the majority of individuals will freeze.  In the scenario of this theatre incident,  I can guarantee you that not one untrained individual would've been capable of accessing the situation in the matter of SECONDS they would've had to respond or determine what to do.  With this guy spraying an unlit movie theatre at anything that moved, you wouldn't have had the time to take off the safety, get in a position where you could get close to an accurate shot before 5 or 10 bullets came heading you way.  When faced with the element of surprise, even a trained individual whose actually had to draw their weapon and shoot someone, is at a severe disadvantage and rarely has a positive outcome on their part.  Many concealed carriers have this false sense of security with the mindset that just because they have this weapon on their side, they're invincible to any kind of attack or confrontation with an aggresive or violent individual.  You have a better chance of getting killed when confronting an aggressor with a weapon than you are without.  Take car jackings.  You talk to any expert, and they will tell you that if someone comes up to you with a weapon wanting to steal your car, you back away, get out, and let them have the vehicle.  There are very few situations where a concealed carrier would have the opportunity to access their weapon to deter this type of crime.
everything you wrote....did not refute my statement. you believ e people should not have the right, ability, or option to defend themselves if the y so choose.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/120#post_3484023
everything you wrote....did not refute my statement. you believ e people should not have the right, ability, or option to defend themselves if the y so choose.
There's a time and place where you stand you ground. Every situation I've cited - domestic violence, this incident where the 4 year old was shot, this carnage at the theatre,... every one of them would've occurred whether someone had a weapon on them or not. Like I said, I have my own personal weapons I use to protect my home. My turf, my rules. I have control over whether an aggression can occur or not. My doors have dead bolts. I have a fully-monitored alarm system. Due to some vandals that went around my neighborhood slashing tires, I now have monitored cameras in my yard, driveway, and all entrances. Someone breaks into my home while any family member is there, I have the means to protect myself at all costs, and wouldn't hesitate doing it. But there's too many mitigating factors I don't have control over out in the rest of the world. Walking around with a weapon strapped to your side gives you a false sense of security. You may think you're prepared for any situation, but you're not. For every time you do avert somneone from attacking you, there's 10 more situations waiting around the corner you don't expect. I choose not to worry about it, and simply use common sense and logic to avoid the potential of an attack occuring. Can I avert every single situation? No more than you can stop every one with a weapon in your hand.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/120#post_3483993
How would knowing WHEN to shoot in this situation changed anything? He was spraying the entire theatre in the dark. You'd never have an opportunity to fire, and you know it. You're telling me someone wearing kevlar ballistic material would get "knocked of his feet" by a 9mm or .308? Like to see that one. The entire incident was over in less than 2 minutes. Before you had the guts to pull out your weapon and try to find an opportune moment to fire, it was over. There's NO civiilian training that could prepare the normal CCW carrier for this situation. You know it, but just don't want to admit it.
I'm going to assume this soldier has as good a body armor as the guy in the theater had
 

jerth6932

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483921
Uh, anyone who owns a gun is capable of doing this. This kid didn't fit ANY profile of a serial killer or someone who had a history of violence or a criminal record. He's not cooperating with officials, and no one has a clue why he did this. Was it a personal traumatic event? Was it some form of rejection? Some form of played out fantasy? All it takes is one of these situations to occur, and a gun owner is a potential killing machine. You're dillusional if you think that just because you've never been violent, you're
incapable of doing so. People are killed every day in family or personal disputes with a gun. We had two deaths regarding family disputes just in the last couple of weeks here in San Antonio. Were they "responsible gun owners" before something snapped and drove them to kill a friend or one of their own family members?
Did you just tell me I am crazy and will use my guns aginst a human whom doesn't deserve it? Well your not getting paid, as I belive that you are the worst phyco analist (therapist) I have "NEVER" went to. But if your so good at telling me, about me and what I am capable of doing, can I go into bussiness with you to become the "Minority Report", YOU ARE NOW A "PRE COG" whom will make us millions! Thanks PRE COG, ive been so strapped for cash too!
I didn't know they made a mold for a serial killer........ Where can I find the cookie cutter? Enlighten me here.....
Recluse
Anti-social
HIS PARENTS WEREN'T SURPRISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aren't those warnning signs for "problems"? Cause he fit all those. But a mold for a serial killer?
 

jerth6932

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483928
Are you an ex-military person with weapons experience? You have some states like Texas pushing legislation to allow college kids to conceal carry on campuses. Are you going to tell me some 22 year old girl whose only "training" was firing a few clips into a paper target at a gun range would have the experience to handle a situation like what occurred in this movie theatre?
Just read the comments from posters on this forum who conceal carry. You have Jerth with this mindset that if anyone had a weapon in that theatre that night, they could've averted this situation, when in reality, the only thing they would've accomplished was getting themselves killed.
Having no guns did them a lot of good....... didn't it?
ALSO go back and read my statment to DARTH
Quote:
No, I do. You believe that one lone CWP wouldn't of done any good in this situation. You are right, in this situation as you have already stated. Where I approach this, is more of a Switzerland approach, if it were the social norm to for people to have CWP's people would be less likely to do such things.
or to you Bio
Quote:
The ONE CWP/COP in the theater is moot, they were underpowered. My belief as stated before if more then 5% of the USA practicing CWP responsibly, these people would be less and further between. Like stated before, its an idealistic Switzerland scenario.
So, I have only stated that ONE lone person with a CWP would of done the trick? That is my stance on this? Umm do you "read" anything I am writting or are you just trying to defend your position. Don't be closed minded to our statements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483923
So I guess we have some black market that caters specifically to the criminal where they can purchase illegal weapons.
Ummm.... Actually.... Yeah... Think the mofia, gangs, or smart criminal when to a gun shop and just purchased a gun, that has had a ballistics test ran on it to know its fire patern, so there is a way to track it? Serious?
 

jerth6932

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/120#post_3484037
There's a time and place where you stand you ground. Every situation I've cited - domestic violence, this incident where the 4 year old was shot, this carnage at the theatre,... every one of them would've occurred whether someone had a weapon on them or not. Like I said, I have my own personal weapons I use to protect my home. My turf, my rules. I have control over whether an aggression can occur or not. My doors have dead bolts. I have a fully-monitored alarm system. Due to some vandals that went around my neighborhood slashing tires, I now have monitored cameras in my yard, driveway, and all entrances. Someone breaks into my home while any family member is there, I have the means to protect myself at all costs, and wouldn't hesitate doing it. But there's too many mitigating factors I don't have control over out in the rest of the world. Walking around with a weapon strapped to your side gives you a false sense of security. You may think you're prepared for any situation, but you're not. For every time you do avert somneone from attacking you, there's 10 more situations waiting around the corner you don't expect. I choose not to worry about it, and simply use common sense and logic to avoid the potential of an attack occuring. Can I avert every single situation? No more than you can stop every one with a weapon in your hand.
So to be more prepaired with a weapon, is worse, then no weapon? Then why do you have them in your house to protect you?
Also, if YOU are able to defend your self/family at all costs, why is it so wrong and why are you chastizing us for defending our PERSONS from harm, at our "any cost" a gun?
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerth6932 http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/140#post_3484048
Did you just tell me I am crazy and will use my guns aginst a human whom doesn't deserve it? Well your not getting paid, as I belive that you are the worst phyco analist (therapist) I have "NEVER" went to. But if your so good at telling me, about me and what I am capable of doing, can I go into bussiness with you to become the "Minority Report", YOU ARE NOW A "PRE COG" whom will make us millions! Thanks PRE COG, ive been so strapped for cash too!
I didn't know they made a mold for a serial killer........ Where can I find the cookie cutter? Enlighten me here.....
Recluse
Anti-social
HIS PARENTS WEREN'T SURPRISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aren't those warnning signs for "problems"? Cause he fit all those. But a mold for a serial killer?
This coming from the guy who responds on a forum with a 2 in. font to try and make some point. Take any anger mangement classes lately?
He was only "reclusive" the last couple of months. He was a model student at college, and friends and family remember him to be an open, funny person.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/140#post_3484061
This coming from the guy who responds on a forum with a 2 in. font to try and make some point. Take any anger mangement classes lately?
He was only "reclusive" the last couple of months. He was a model student at college, and friends and family remember him to be an open, funny person.
Where did you get that? He's been described as a loner by numerous people who went to school with him and neighbors of his parents said growing up he was shy and didn't have many friends.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/100#post_3483916
Say what? Guns smuggled INTO the US? Try the other way around. Trust me, there's no need to smuggle guns into the US. Just look at the people on this forum who have a treasure trove of weapons in their possession as we speak.
Guns go both ways across our border, yes. Just like drugs and illegals. Figured you'd have known that living here in South Texas.
 

jerth6932

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/140#post_3484061
This coming from the guy who responds on a forum with a 2 in. font to try and make some point. Take any anger mangement classes lately?
He was only "reclusive" the last couple of months. He was a model student at college, and friends and family remember him to be an open, funny person.
You Bio are the PRE COG who can tell someone what they are going to do..... you tell me if I have?
There was NO anger, the font was put there FOR YOU, as you have a tendancy to miss the facts. I didn't want you to miss it. YOU BIONICARM, whom when faced with facts tends to lash out and make outlandish comments. The whole time double steping on your self and declining to answer any questions or comments directed towards you.... I wrote 3 diffrent posts prior to this deflection post, none of which you address.
 

travelerjp98

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/120#post_3483932
Guess you can't take your kids to the playground any longer...
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/23/12903602-4-year-old-boy-shot-dead-on-nyc-playground?lite&__utma=14933801.1795512979.1342443245.1343045217.1343050872.18&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1343050872&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1342443245.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none)&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Ccover=1^12=Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=www.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Earned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=145461812
This was the recommended article underneath this one.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/20/12863467-3-year-old-boy-dies-after-being-left-in-van-outside-dallas-day-care?lite&__utma=238145375.430708819.1343042570.1343042570.1343103577.2&__utmb=238145375.9.10.1343103577&__utmc=238145375&__utmx=-&__utmz=238145375.1343103577.2.2.utmcsr=msn.com|utmccn=%28referral%29|utmcmd=referral|utmcct=/&__utmv=238145375.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc|us%20news|usnewsfranchise=1^12=Landing%20Content=Original=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=usnews.msnbc.msn.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Internal%20to%20Original=1&__utmk=68914898
Did the van kill the boy? No, the people who own the day care did...
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerth6932 http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/140#post_3484076
You Bio are the PRE COG who can tell someone what they are going to do..... you tell me if I have?
There was NO anger, the font was put there FOR YOU, as you have a tendancy to miss the facts. I didn't want you to miss it. YOU BIONICARM, whom when faced with facts tends to lash out and make outlandish comments. The whole time double steping on your self and declining to answer any questions or comments directed towards you.... I wrote 3 diffrent posts prior to this deflection post, none of which you address.
You didn't answer my question. Why is it that someone can purchase a .50 caliber sniper rifle from some person in some parking lot in the middle of the night, with no background checks, and admitting to the guy he'd FAIL a Federal background check if he had to take one? I guess with your skewed logic, he's a "responsible gun owner" that surely has no intent on using that weapon for anything but sport shooting. Just think of the distance he can get on his next deer hunting trip. The weapon is capable of shooting armored-piercing bullets. Maybe he just wants to do some target practicing on some beat up truck in a field. Riiight.
I haven't had any problems missing any facts, the problem is, you facts have multiple holes in them. Trust me, I can detect when someone's "popping a cork" debating an issue. Put it this way, I don't think I'd want to be around you when you got real angry.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392376/movie-theater-shooting/140#post_3484118
You didn't answer my question. Why is it that someone can purchase a .50 caliber sniper rifle from some person in some parking lot in the middle of the night, with no background checks, and admitting to the guy he'd FAIL a Federal background check if he had to take one? I guess with your skewed logic, he's a "responsible gun owner" that surely has no intent on using that weapon for anything but sport shooting. Just think of the distance he can get on his next deer hunting trip. The weapon is capable of shooting armored-piercing bullets. Maybe he just wants to do some target practicing on some beat up truck in a field. Riiight.
I haven't had any problems missing any facts, the problem is, you facts have multiple holes in them. Trust me, I can detect when someone's "popping a cork" debating an issue. Put it this way, I don't think I'd want to be around you when you got real angry.
Why can someone buy illegal drugs, stolen merchandise, banned pets etc. in that same parking lot? It's one of the down sides of living in a free society. By the way, when was the last time a 50 cal. sniper rifle was used in a crime in this country?
 
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