Must read this thread if you care about fish

[stanlalee]

I think some of you are giving fish too much credit for the ability to be emotionally pleasured by their surroundings. The reef is not a safe, friendly relaxed place for most of the fish we keep. Its no nemo movie but a constant struggle to eat and not be eaten. who knows if they are happy, living in hell or indifferent. Not like anybody can ask them and for most species behavior is inconclusive given the "proper captive" conditions for that species. I really think wether they are "happy" or not has no place in this sort of discussion or is a reasonable argument for ethics of keeping them in captivity. You cant include a variable you have no way to quantify. Arguments about life span, effects on the reefs, collection and transport practices are valid (even though you probably cant source any real data because it likely doesn't exist). like I said earlier most sources consider the "ornament" fish trade virtually insignificant. Hardly any research goes into ornamental fish (no more than what it takes to keep those that can be kept and the occasional marine biologist who fancies it) because no one feels its a significantly large enough market to warrant the expense of researching them. they can easily collect them, they are always there to be collected despite the amount collected = little effort or motivation to research them like they do commercial fish species.

 

[leftyblite]

I would like to think that I help and try to create a healthy, safe and stress free environment for my fish. My daughter is always excited about my tank and can tell people a lot of info on the fish in my tank. She and I spend time researching information on the fish we do have(habitat, location in the world, eating habits etc) online. If and when we decide to add a fish to our tank she helps me with the reasearch into what would be OK with our tank. Oh, I forgot to mention she is in the 1st grade and has allready decided she wants work with marine animals(either fish, mammals, or inverts) when she grows up. I would say that in my case it is DEFINITELY a good idea keep these animals as pets as I would not replace these experiences for anything. Of course that is just my 2 cents.

 

[mboswell1982]

Originally Posted by FalsePercula26
http:///forum/post/2842206
PETA- People for the ethical treatment of animals.....hardly an orginzation that condones killing animals domesticated or otherwise....
peta has said on many occasions that all domesticated animals need to be either a, put back into the wild, or b, killed if they cannot survive in the wild. yes, the organization is called people for the ethical treatment of animals, but, they do not believe that any animal should be domesticated, period. all animals should be wild.
ingrid newkirk, the leader of peta, has gone on the record as saying that she would gladly kill every single american pit bull terrier on the face of the planet, because they do not deserve to live.
thats just an example of peta for ya man
some of their teachings and what not are great, but others are totally off the wall, and if newkirk wants to eradicate pit bulls, well, we own 3, with a lot more planned for, and if she wants to eradicate ours, she's gonna have to do it over me an my gf's dead bodies.
here's an article for ya man, about peta
http://www.workingpitbull.com/truthaboutpeta.htm
the lady who runs that site is a pit bull trainer and lover, and she trains pit bulls to be police dogs, she will not sell dog to private citizens, only police departments

 

[spinylobster]

Originally Posted by leftyblite
http:///forum/post/2842324
I would like to think that I help and try to create a healthy, safe and stress free environment for my fish. My daughter is always excited about my tank and can tell people a lot of info on the fish in my tank. She and I spend time researching information on the fish we do have(habitat, location in the world, eating habits etc) online. If and when we decide to add a fish to our tank she helps me with the reasearch into what would be OK with our tank. Oh, I forgot to mention she is in the 1st grade and has allready decided she wants work with marine animals(either fish, mammals, or inverts) when she grows up. I would say that in my case it is DEFINITELY a good idea keep these animals as pets as I would not replace these experiences for anything. Of course that is just my 2 cents.

Right on man! I have a 2 yr old and cant keep him away from my tank. All day its "fish,fish,fish". I cant wait for him to get more involved in the process. Good stuff

 

[salt nate]

great article! I am a vegetarian(well not really... I only eat our aquarium friends) and I hate PETA. They are so demented it is not even funny. Their warped view of the world is scary. Wild animals, in their mind, come before humans in all instances. We are the horrible, evil, ones.

 

[spinylobster]

Originally Posted by mboswell1982
http:///forum/post/2842928
peta has said on many occasions that all domesticated animals need to be either a, put back into the wild, or b, killed if they cannot survive in the wild. yes, the organization is called people for the ethical treatment of animals, but, they do not believe that any animal should be domesticated, period. all animals should be wild.
ingrid newkirk, the leader of peta, has gone on the record as saying that she would gladly kill every single american pit bull terrier on the face of the planet, because they do not deserve to live.
thats just an example of peta for ya man
some of their teachings and what not are great, but others are totally off the wall, and if newkirk wants to eradicate pit bulls, well, we own 3, with a lot more planned for, and if she wants to eradicate ours, she's gonna have to do it over me an my gf's dead bodies.
here's an article for ya man, about peta
http://www.workingpitbull.com/truthaboutpeta.htm
the lady who runs that site is a pit bull trainer and lover, and she trains pit bulls to be police dogs, she will not sell dog to private citizens, only police departments
I know I might be opening a can of worms judging by how some are on this site, but South Park ran an episode on PEDA and even though it was outrageous it kinda hit the nail on the head, kinda funny.

 

[mboswell1982]

dude, south park is funny as all get out, and while they may go about things in the wrong way at times, they do usually hit the nail on the head when they make fun of groups like peta LOL

 

[unleashed]

Originally Posted by salt nate
http:///forum/post/2838256
I was sitting in front of my tank the other day and thinking...........
Is it right to keep saltwater fish? Is it moral? Is it cruel? Is it selfish?
Some people on this forum rip people apart for putting too large of fish into too small of tanks. But maybe the fact that they even put fish in their tanks at all is wrong. Even a damsel in a 400 gal.
to answer your question .........yes to all of the above...
this goes without a doubt to any species of pets we keep .. our mentality to dominate even the smallest of creatures..

 

[snakeblitz33]

I think that my fish are happy in my glass boxes

 

[mboswell1982]

if your a conscientious aquarist, your fish are much safer than they are in the wild, JMO lol

 

[rotarymagic]

I HATE FISH!!!! I'm actively trying to see if I can get this yellow tang to fit in my coke bottle nano as we speak!!! It's tricky getting them through the small hole in the lid.. ship in a bottle... ship in a bottle... LOL
j/k

 

[mboswell1982]

Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2843037
I HATE FISH!!!! I'm actively trying to see if I can get this yellow tang to fit in my coke bottle nano as we speak!!! It's tricky getting them through the small hole in the lid.. ship in a bottle... ship in a bottle... LOL
j/k
now thats just funny LOL

 

[falsepercula26]

I dont want this becoming a PETA thread nor do i approve of their philospy of what animals have a right to live and what dont...ultimately i enjoy the peaceful serenity of my tank and how my fish interact with the enviroment i provide them. it's my way of relaxtion....People Eating Tasty Animals...oops did I say that out loud?

 

[mboswell1982]

it wont become a PETA thread, cause i personally hate em, and i like ur new group, cause i am a person who likes to eat tasty animals LOL and thats one thing i am really looking forward to with my tank, sit back on a cool evening, fireplace going, looking at the tanks with my gf curled up next to me on the couch, a glass of wine in our hands, just relaxing
and yes, i said wine, ok, im a bad redneck, i like to drink wine LOL

 

[hammerhed7]

Originally Posted by RCreations
http:///forum/post/2838299
I think about that too sometime. Is it wrong for us to keep these fish in such small boxes? Yeah, a BIG box is better than a small one but it's still a box. Going from the ocean to an aquarium has to suck. If I was a fish, I wouldn't want to be stuck in a glass box, no matter how good an environment is created.
You make a good point, but you can say that about anything really, should humans spend 10 hrs a day in a cubicle, should a dog live in an apartment (never mind the owner) should I stop locking my kids in the closet? The debate goes on

 

[taximan]

Don't fish only have a 3 second Memory Spand? So how would they know if they were in a glass box or not.

 

[salt nate]

scientists continue to guess about everything and then put it in textbooks like it is undisputed. Makes me sick, but we wont go there

We need to start teaching intellegent design if we teach everything else

 

[legion]

Originally Posted by salt nate
http:///forum/post/2844087
scientists continue to guess about everything and then put it in textbooks like it is undisputed. Makes me sick, but we wont go there

We need to start teaching intellegent design if we teach everything else

Are you talking about my setup?

 

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by Taximan
http:///forum/post/2843427
Don't fish only have a 3 second Memory Spand? So how would they know if they were in a glass box or not.
wow who told you that nonsense. how would most captive fish find the same hole/location to sleep in every night? how would they learn to expect food when you approach if they only had a 3 second memory span.? how would they learn you and your hand in the tank is not a threat when they use to hide if they only had short term memory? how would they maintain a pecking order and peace among each other in closed quarters if every 3 seconds they forgot who's the king fish? even general observations shoot that down easily.

 

[iyachtuxivm]

Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/2844747
wow who told you that nonsense. how would most captive fish find the same hole/location to sleep in every night? how would they learn to expect food when you approach if they only had a 3 second memory span.? how would they learn you and your hand in the tank is not a threat when they use to hide if they only had short term memory? how would they maintain a pecking order and peace among each other in closed quarters if every 3 seconds they forgot who's the king fish? even general observations shoot that down easily.
That wives tale was made up by the fact that as humans we have one of the largest brains on the planet. We also only use 30% of that great big glob of goo. So if a fish has a brain the size of a peanut we are smarter in all things, right? No. What if the fish uses all of his brain? Maybe the fish are smarter with longer memories and have tricked us into "putting them" in glass boxes with no predators and unlimited food with no crazy environmental issuses!