My clownfish is dying... HELP!

aqua blue

aqua blue

Member
Hello again epippas.
The "cleaning rod" I mentioned is just the extendable rod that holds attachments for cleaning the inside glass of the tank. I just temporarily used a plastic tie wrap to hold the airline tubing to something that I could easily point and siphon trash and waste out of the water with. Using small airline tubing gives me more siphon time while I clean. Just airline tubing alone does not easily reach the needed areas.
I tried the coffe filter idea when I had some salt mix that would not dissolve completly. It was the last bit of a bag that had probably picked up some moisture. I now store my salt mix in a air tight container instead of wrapping the bag shut. Anyway that seemed to work well keeping the undissolved salt particles out of my main tank during water changes. I just used a cone shapped coffee filter in a small fish dip net while pouring the water in. I had to go slowly but this was actually salt added top off water that I was using to gradually raise the salinity. It seems to work well when siphoning with the small airline tubing too.
The formalin dips that I am doing are only under the advice of Terry B. for my particular situation. ONLY try the advice given for your situation.
From all that I have read on this board and others the closer to 1.009 the better for effective hypo treatment. That said, I currently do not have a refractometer. Not in the budget right away. I too am using a swing arm hydrometer. I will just have to do the best that I can with what I have for now. You can clean it by soaking it in vinegar for 30 minutes to remove any built up salt deposits that can cause incorrect readings. There is also a website, named efishtank.com, that has a "Salinity Calculator" that helps to determine the adjusted salinity measurement caused by the temperature of the water. Many swing arm hydrometers are calibrated at a water temp. of 60 degrees.
AGAIN this is just what I am doing. Continue to ask for and follow the advice of the others on this board who have much, much more valuable experience dealing with disease and treatment.
My fish is still eating so I am encouraged by this. Hopefully it will live long enough so that I will be able to learn quickly enough to help it recover.
Wishing your fish a quick recovery.:)
 
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eipappas

Guest
Thanks again Aqua Blue - I will go find myself a cleaning rod and airline tubing and use that to clean the gravel in my QT. My fish has stopped shaking himself (mostly) and his coloring is coming back a bit... maybe this means the ammonia levels are getting better? Of course, I can't tell for sure since I used that stupid Ammolock product and it messes up my ammonia readings....
I am verrrry hesitant about doing hyposalinity. I need more instruction before I can just start dumping distilled water in my tank...
VERY IMPORTANT at this point is what I do with the Puffer? I'm almost positive he has ich now. I have to medicate him in the main tank and I still don't know what product to use (I have bought both Greenex and Kick-Ich and am just waiting for instruction)... I have live rock and otherwise it's just the puffer in there. Thanks.
 
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eipappas

Guest
Aqua Blue, Terry or Beth -
On the first step of hypo - Do I bring it down to 1.017 in one water change and then down to 1.009 on the second day? How do I do this "gradually"?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Obviously, you need another place for your pufferfish, as he can not be treated in the main tank where there is live rock. How much LR is in there? Are there any inverts?
To preform hyposalinity, you will mininumly need a quality glass hydrometer, or a refractometer. You can get refractometers now online for $70 and it is worth every penny. Very precise, no more guess work. There's no need to worry about hypo. As I said, it is even beneficial for ailing fish.
So you can get a better idea about what it is, here is my standardarized write-up on it:
O.S.T. stands for Osmotic Shock Therapy which is commonly referred to in the hobby as hyposalinity [water that is deficient in sea salt]. Essentially, O.S.T. simply places the infectors [Cryptocaryon parasite---ick/ich] in an environment in which they cannot survive while the host, (or infected fish) can. This remedy WILL NOT work in reef systems, invert tanks or FOWLR as it incorporates lowering the specific gravity of the entire system [hospital tank] to 1.009 which is not tolerated by inverts or LR.
To drop the salinity, this is done as you would do a normal water change. However, you are simply replenishing your tank with fresh RO/DI water---not salt water! Monitor the lowering closely so as to not reduce it too fast. Usually over a period of 48 hours is fine. The bacteria colony which is the biological support for your tank will survive, the fish be perfectly fine, but the ich will not. By lowering the salinity, you will also be lowering the osmotic pressure of the water. Fish tolerate this treatment very well, in fact, once the water become hyposaline, you will likely note a significant improvement in your fish health and appetite. There is no reason to fear this treatment. You can do a water-change out, in small increments every half hr or so.
Your goal is to drop the specific gravity to 1.009 [48-hrs] gradually. Once all signs of the parasite are gone, then keep your fish in this hypo-saline water for 3-4 wks. If all is well, then you can gradually [over the course of 4-5 days] bring the specific gravity [salinity] back up to normal levels . If all is well after a week, then return the fish to their main tank.
When the fish are eating, offer them quality and varied food soaked in garlic, zoe/zoecon, vitamin C.
 
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eipappas

Guest
Beth -
I will go find a glass hydrometer and do hypo for the clownfish - I personally cannot handle the physical stress of setting up another 10 gallon hospital tank for the puffer... He is not showing any signs of labored breathing, just occasional scratching against rocks, and he does have some spots which look like ich (although I've never seen it before other than in a picture). Should I wait? Or should I medicate with Kick-Ich or Greenex in the main tank... I am up for dips etc. but I honestly cannot set up another quarantine tank after the disaster I am currently dealing with... I now know that I need a QT continually running and will do that in the future but I can't deal with starting two up from scratch within the same 4 day period. There has to be another way, doesn't there?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
There is no viable medications or therapies that you can use in a tank that contains live rock or inverts. Is all you have in that tank is the live rock? If so, alternative, you could remove the LR and contain them in a rubbermain with good aeration [powerhead]. Leave the puffer in the main tank, and hypo the tank.
You're also going to need to decide who you want in your tank, puffer or clownfish? Obviously the puffer is not going to tolerate a clown. Lucky he didn't eat the clownfish!
 
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eipappas

Guest
This is probably a dumb question but the LFS and the bottle says that Kick-Ich is save for live rock... Still no?
Also, on hypo-salinity - What happens when I go to work tomorrow? How do I do the water changes every 30 minutes?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Those meds, including the kick ich, are not viable meds to treat ich. ONLY copper, and hyposalinity. Hyposalinity being the better choice as it is not toxic.
While you are at work, you won't be able to work on the hypo, just while you're at home.
 
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eipappas

Guest
can I start the hypo now and do it for the next three hours (i guess that would be six very small water changes adding distilled water in place of changed out water?) and then do more tomorrow evening?
 
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eipappas

Guest
ok - so i'm going to do this - i'm trusting you guys... this just sounds so drastic to me... i hope clownie can take it - and i hope this finally helps him get better... so one gallon tonight? (it's a ten gallon tank...)
i still don't have a good hydrometer - this is not doable with a plastic swing-arm hydrometer? i can go find a better one tomorrow if need be...
 
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eipappas

Guest
oh wait... one gallon of distilled water would be waaay too much... right? i should think of this more in terms of specific gravity points... should I go down to 1.02 tonight? (from 1.023)
 
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eipappas

Guest
wait - sorry so many questions - i am adding straight distilled water right? so what happens if i do the vacuuming/water change and i remove too much? how do i know how much the specific gravity will drop? should i just remove cupfuls in the water change rather than using the pump/hose?
 
aqua blue

aqua blue

Member
Hello eipapps.
I am glad to see others with more experience helping you.
I have been doing three (1/2 gallon each) water changes each day so far. One in the morning a second one in the afternoon and a third later that night.
Each water change lowers the specific gravity about .0010 - .0015 each time. My first water change dropped my specific gravity from 1.023 to 1.0215. My most recent water change today dropped it from 1.017 to 1.016. I will do one more later tonight.
The fish seems to improve as the salinity drops. He is still eating well.
Also I have no substrate in my HT. That is why I use the airline tubing attached to the cleaning rod to vaccum up trash, waste and uneaten food.
When feeding a little at a time sometimes there is still some that settles to the bottom glass. I have used a turkey baster squeeze tube to stir up the food that settles and then the fish usually eats it when it rises up. Just a thought.
I am also keeping a log of everything that I am doing for reference later if needed.
:)
 
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eipappas

Guest
thank you thank you thank you ... all of you!!!
i dropped .0015 ... that was nerve racking, but you're right - not too tricky... I have to learn the techniques you use Aqua Blue to keep the bottom of the tank clean... sadly I have substrate in which is making this verrrry hard :(
 
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eipappas

Guest
btw - should i take out the live rock before salinity gets too low? or can the rock survive?
 
aqua blue

aqua blue

Member
I just vaccum up the trash and waste as I siphon out the salt water that I am replacing with fresh water. By doing more frequent but smaller water changes this gives me more clean up time and more repition for the learing curve.
As the first few salinity drops improved the condition of my fish it began to eat again and I began to relax a little. I wish you the same effective results even though you situation is a little different.:)
 
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eipappas

Guest
Aqua Blue -
I went to a pet store - not my lfs but the store on the corner - and they didn't know what I meant by airline tubing connected to a cleaning rod.... My siphon attaches to the sink and is really huge and pulls a ton of water out before i can get to most of the gravel. I am hoping to understand better what it is that you have. What attaches to the airline tubing to suck the trash out of the tank? A powerhead? Sorry for what must seem like silly questions - I just can't visualize it.
 
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eipappas

Guest
also - i'm starting to think ahead - when the water level gets to 1.009... how do I do my daily water changes? Mix water that is exactly 1.009 in spec gravity for 3-4 weeks?
 
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