New Strains of Ich - Beware

florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by locoyo386
http:///forum/post/3057289
Well the real contributers to this site or anyother site for that matter, are the ones you see here on a day by day. The question is, are they contributing relevant information?
And the relevant information you are presenting is what? That you think there is a mutated strain of Ick?
Ick is not a bacterial infection. It does not respond to antibiotics, if it did then the rouge bacteria can mutate into a strain, which is immune to the introduced antibiotic. Ick needs to multiply to numbers that impact the gills of our fish or cause secondary infections that are detrimental to their health. They multiply by division this division is accomplished by osmotic pressure differential. With out which they cannot divide (hypo). They cannot bend the laws of physics There has never been a documented case of an ick parasite being immune to cooper treatment. This new mutated ick parasite seems to have flown under the radar long enough for only one specialized company to come up with a cure.
I will continue to search the web for Documented published research alluding to a new mutate form of ick . I only hope I live long enough to find it
On the other hand I welcome any documentation you have on a mutated ick parasite
But this may be coming from someone who as you say may be ignorant
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
seems to me the op has left the building.
what a surprise.
maybe he called the psych ward to find the pathologist in search of the documents.or maybe a giant mutated ich monster ate him?
 
salami trigger

salami trigger

Member
Originally Posted by Triton
http:///forum/post/3055557
I just had an in-depth conversation with a pathologist at a pharmaceutical company that specializes in fish treatments. He has done extensive work on Marine Ich (cryptocaryon). One of the biggest issues with Ich, that most people don't realize, is that it can mutate into new strains. There isn't a "one size fits all cure" for Ich, as there are multiple unique strains of Ich.
There are several newer mutated strains of cryptocaryon that are resistant to hyposalinity and even copper. In his opinion, hyposalinity has began loosing effectiveness over the last 10 years because of mutation, and is useless against many strains of cryptocaryon.
The most recent development is a strain of cryptocaryon that will resist copper treatment. Yes, you heard this correctly. Ich that will completely give copper treatment the finger!
There is 1 known drug that will work on this resistant strain.
If it mutates into a resistant form, the industry will really be floating down a creek without a paddle.
YOU ARE MIS LEADING PEOPLE
THE MUTATION IF AT ALL CAN ONLY HAPPEN IN THAT PERSONS TANK ALONE
IF NOT TREATED CORRECTLY...HOW CAN IT BE MUTATED FROM PAST TREATMENTS IF IT IS SAY A NEW FISH FROM THE WILD...OR EVEN ONE THAT WAS TREATED IN A FISH HOUSE...IT WOULD NOT BE RAMPANT ALL OVER THE WORLD..YOU ARE MAKING PEOPLE GET NERVOUSE FOR NO GOOD REASON...
UNLESS OF COURSE....YOU ARE GONNA BE SELLING THIS NEW DRUG.
 
locoyo386

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3057362
And the relevant information you are presenting is what? That you think there is a mutated strain of Ick?
Ick is not a bacterial infection. It does not respond to antibiotics, if it did then the rouge bacteria can mutate into a strain, which is immune to the introduced antibiotic. Ick needs to multiply to numbers that impact the gills of our fish or cause secondary infections that are detrimental to their health. They multiply by division this division is accomplished by osmotic pressure differential. With out which they cannot divide (hypo). They cannot bend the laws of physics There has never been a documented case of an ick parasite being immune to cooper treatment. This new mutated ick parasite seems to have flown under the radar long enough for only one specialized company to come up with a cure.
I will continue to search the web for Documented published research alluding to a new mutate form of ick . I only hope I live long enough to find it
On the other hand I welcome any documentation you have on a mutated ick parasite
But this may be coming from someone who as you say may be ignorant
Well I am not an expert thus I do not contribute to this site or any other site for that matter. Personally I do nohave experience with Ich, as I never had it in my salt water fish aquariums (only had it in the freshwater). Wether Ich mutates or simply adapts to it's environment has the same end result. Recently I has read quite a bit about peopple doing hypo and had no success. I am currenbtly experiementing with this treatment, but no success yet. Since you are an expert on Ich and Ich treatments, can you explain why hypo is not working on Ich in the recent years? My understanding is that hyposalinity was 100% effective 10 years (approximately not sure the exact time frame) ago.
 
locoyo386

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by SALAMI TRIGGER
http:///forum/post/3057692
YOU ARE MIS LEADING PEOPLE
THE MUTATION IF AT ALL CAN ONLY HAPPEN IN THAT PERSONS TANK ALONE
IF NOT TREATED CORRECTLY...HOW CAN IT BE MUTATED FROM PAST TREATMENTS IF IT IS SAY A NEW FISH FROM THE WILD...OR EVEN ONE THAT WAS TREATED IN A FISH HOUSE...IT WOULD NOT BE RAMPANT ALL OVER THE WORLD..YOU ARE MAKING PEOPLE GET NERVOUSE FOR NO GOOD REASON...
UNLESS OF COURSE....YOU ARE GONNA BE SELLING THIS NEW DRUG.
How is this possible when we get the fish from the store and it already has Ich. The fish that most people get are coming in thru the same point (L.A.). If the the fish are being treated by the store where they are mostly comming from, than the Ich that reaches out home aquariums is the adapted form of Ich.
 
locoyo386

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3057272
There is nothing new about resistant strains of ich (or any pathogen for that matter). Yes, inappropriate treatment does result in the parasite becoming resistant to the treatment. Its this reason that doctors will insist that you take a full course of antibiotics, even if you "feel better" to ensure the elimination of the bacteria. Otherwise, the bacteria infecting you will become resistant to the antibiotic when it was not fully killed off by correct treatment.
While I may sound like a broken record, I have always been very decisive in giving people instructions about what they need to do about treating ich, partly for this "mutation" reason.
Fish that are breed and sold in the hobby are more susceptible to resistant strains because they are more likely to experience ich time and time again, get half-baked treatments that only partially work thereby creating the big monster strain of this parasite.
I think I am safe in saying that most people who do hypo correctly will have very positive results.
And coming into the forum with a "secret" cure is ridiculous. You're willing to tell privately, but want to protect your "secret". Well, what's to say that whoever you tell to won't turn around and post a topic here about it?

Give me a break.
Nothing can be kept complitely secret and nuless you have a very small circle of people who know the secret. I think that the point to this thread is not that the poster is hidinig a new secret cure for Ich, but more so that there are cases where Ich does not die when conventional treatments are applied. Also wether it is true that hypo so longer works on Ich, if so why?
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
How is this possible when we get the fish from the store and it already has Ich. The fish that most people get are coming in thru the same point (L.A.). If the the fish are being treated by the store where they are mostly comming from, than the Ich that reaches out home aquariums is the adapted form of Ich.
To brake the ick cycle one needs to employ a six-week time frame of treatment LFS and distributors profit is predicated on turn over they do not hold fish for six weeks
Since you are an expert on Ich and Ich treatments, can you explain why hypo is not working on Ich in the recent years? My understanding is that hyposalinity was 100% effective 10 years (approximately not sure the exact time frame) ago.
Hypo is only as effective as the person is diligent in his maintaining the proper salinity. If one is lax in this diligent treatment hypo will not work
Nothing can be kept complitely secret and nuless you have a very small circle of people who know the secret. I think that the point to this thread is not that the poster is hidinig a new secret cure for Ich, but more so that there are cases where Ich does not die when conventional treatments are applied. Also wether it is true that hypo so longer works on Ich, if so why?

One would be foolish to think the only white spot disease is Ick. There are many more parasites that mimic ick with much longer life cycles. Unless one had their fish analyzed there is no way of knowing if in fact they are treating ick with hypo
Well I am not an expert thus I do not contribute to this site or any other site for that matter.
Why do you think you have to be an expert to contribute
Click to expand...
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
If they are going to mutate and become resistant to treatment, it would be because of the constant exposure to copper...not hypo. The first time they are exposed to "true" hypo conditions is in our tanks. Around here, at most places, they sit in copper at the warehouses (where y'all get your fish from) and at the LFS as well.
I have no doubt it can mutate over time... evolution is a crazy thing. For that to occur there has to be a constant exposure to an environment or an unsuccessful suppression.... and this doesn't happen over night but occurs through information passed through other generations. Our fish pretty much can't "pass on" this information, for it dies in our tanks.... eventually. I can see this happening in the seahorse world were captive breds are common.... and especially with the amount of inbreeding that occurs.
So, how does this hypo resistant ich parasite become resistant? Where has it gotten prior exposure? What information was passed down to this fish you just put in your tank about hypo and where would it get it?
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3057848
One would be foolish to think the only white spot disease is Ick. There are many more parasites that mimic ick with much longer life cycles. Unless one had their fish analyzed there is no way of knowing if in fact they are treating ick with hypo
True that

Helloooo... OP... do you think you could come back and contribute to the thread you started? We would love to hear more info!
 
locoyo386

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3057848
To brake the ick cycle one needs to employ a six-week time frame of treatment LFS and distributors profit is predicated on turn over they do not hold fish for six weeks Hypo is only as effective as the person is diligent in his maintaining the proper salinity. If one is lax in this diligent treatment hypo will not work
One would be foolish to think the only white spot disease is Ick. There are many more parasites that mimic ick with much longer life cycles. Unless one had their fish analyzed there is no way of knowing if in fact they are treating ick with hypo
You gurantee that if one is diligent in keeping the correct salinity and it is kept for six-weeks the Ich will go away? If so, than I would assume if it does not work than it's due to human error or mechanichal error.
You are saying that no local fish store treats thier fish for Ich? This due to that if they hold their fish for too long of period they would loose money.
What are some if not alll the other parasites that mimic Ich that are or would be more resintant to Ich treatments?
 
locoyo386

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3057854
If they are going to mutate and become resistant to treatment, it would be because of the constant exposure to copper...not hypo. The first time they are exposed to "true" hypo conditions is in our tanks. Around here, at most places, they sit in copper at the warehouses (where y'all get your fish from) and at the LFS as well.
I have no doubt it can mutate over time... evolution is a crazy thing. For that to occur there has to be a constant exposure to an environment or an unsuccessful suppression.... and this doesn't happen over night but occurs through information passed through other generations. Our fish pretty much can't "pass on" this information, for it dies in our tanks.... eventually. I can see this happening in the seahorse world were captive breds are common.... and especially with the amount of inbreeding that occurs.
So, how does this hypo resistant ich parasite become resistant? Where has it gotten prior exposure? What information was passed down to this fish you just put in your tank about hypo and where would it get it?
True that

Helloooo... OP... do you think you could come back and contribute to the thread you started? We would love to hear more info!
Well taken point. I would assume that all Ich present in the home aquarium comes directly from the ocean. While in the home aquarium it undergoes treatment. The question is, how could it be possible to Ich to adapt (mutate, if it indeed occurs) if it's successfully iradicated from tank. How is it possible for Ich to resist hyposalinity when the treatment is conducted diligently? If Ich does not adapt to hypo treatment, than shall we expect 100% effectiveness (if done correct, ofcourse)?
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
You gurantee that if one is diligent in keeping the correct salinity and it is kept for six-weeks the Ich will go away? If so, than I would assume if it does not work than it's due to human error or mechanichal error.
Yes ick is fatal to our fish by multiplying to such great numbers that they impact the gills or cause secondary infections. They also tax the immune system so the fish is susceptible to other illnesses
You are saying that no local fish store treats thier fish for Ich? This due to that if they hold their fish for too long of period they would loose money
Exactly Most LFS run copper or UV BUT this is only going to attack the ick parasite in a certain stage of its life cycle. Have you ever gone into a LFS to buy a fish and have the sales person say this fish is in QT for 6 weeks come back at that time I THINK NOT
.
What are some if not alll the other parasites that mimic Ich that are or would be more resintant to Ich treatments?
There are crustaceamorpha .of which within the copepods there are 10,000 species worldwide 2000 parasitic species, 90 percent of these are marine, 20 percent of these are on fish and elasmobranches and that is just the copepod species. Now add all the other parasites in the ocean and their life cycles are we foolish to think the only white spot resulting from a parasite on our fish is ICK
Once again I challenge you to show me any scientific report that the ick parasite has mutated to a point where it is resistant to copper or hypo salinity
 
salt life

salt life

Active Member
Since I'm bored I am gonna say something about this.
IMO if you didn't plan on telling us the drug then why did you start this thread and mention you knew anything about it? This site has gotten ridiculous with all the arguements going on and I really didn't realize how immature some adults can be about nonsense.
Idk if anyone else has realized but alot of newer members have been posting stuff just to get a rise out of people and then they disapear. idk if this is one of those threads but alot of you take the bait for what reason I don't know that either.
this site used to be great when I first signed up but now it is just bashing and arguements.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3057893
Yes ick is fatal to our fish by multiplying to such great numbers that they impact the gills or cause secondary infections. They also tax the immune system so the fish is susceptible to other illnesses Exactly Most LFS run copper or UV BUT this is only going to attack the ick parasite in a certain stage of its life cycle. Have you ever gone into a LFS to buy a fish and have the sales person say this fish is in QT for 6 weeks come back at that time I THINK NOT There are crustaceamorpha .of which within the copepods there are 10,000 species worldwide 2000 parasitic species, 90 percent of these are marine, 20 percent of these are on fish and elasmobranches and that is just the copepod species. Now add all the other parasites in the ocean and their life cycles are we foolish to think the only white spot resulting from a parasite on our fish is ICK
Once again I challenge you to show me any scientific report that the ick parasite has mutated to a point where it is resistant to copper or hypo salinity
I have to differ with saltlifes post I think the debate Locoyo and I are having is bringing a lot to the table and it should at least stimulate other hobbyists to get involved
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Originally Posted by Salt Life
http:///forum/post/3057894
Since I'm bored I am gonna say something about this.
IMO if you didn't plan on telling us the drug then why did you start this thread and mention you knew anything about it? This site has gotten ridiculous with all the arguements going on and I really didn't realize how immature some adults can be about nonsense.
Idk if anyone else has realized but alot of newer members have been posting stuff just to get a rise out of people and then they disapear. idk if this is one of those threads but alot of you take the bait for what reason I don't know that either.
this site used to be great when I first signed up but now it is just bashing and arguements.
I'm BAAAACCCKK....Hey I tried to find out....
 
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