New to Forum - My 225 Gallon Tank

[angelman]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
WHAT? now I love the fact that your running a bio system, HUGE water changes are great. ther are a lot of things you say That I LOVE......
but buying 12 and having one or two survive isnt a success, when your tank is parasite free the ones that cannot conform to a prefab diet die. thats a confirmed FAILURE. this tank is a thumb in the eye of learning husbandry. I am not saying there is nothing to be learned, I am saying buying 12 and seeing if one lives IS NOT GOOD IMO. I do not want to come off as attacking you as any Perspective in this hobby leads to a greater understanding. there is no way you can consider 2 out of 12 good. in the last 5 years I have lost 2 fire fish gobys to carpet surfing. No other fish has died under my care within the last 5 years. prior to that my purple psuedochromis did get infected with a bacterial infection and I treated then sold him. my yellow tang I sold because I only had a 45g at the time, and that is not big enough IMO.
Your tank is beautiful.
in its own way. if you have success with all of those fish long term I salute you, I just dont buy it. sorry. have a nice day I will not speak any more on this.
You don't want to come off as attacking me?
Too late for that if you read your words and tone.
I love forums.
Every once in a while, you run into someone like you.
You don't think keeping a cleaner five years after buying 12 is a success?
That is your opinion.
I was asked how it is that I managed to keep one so long and I responded frankly.
That upsets you?
You disagree?
Fine.
You are entitled to your opinion.
Won't upset me.
Just curious, what is the longest you have managed to keep a cleaner wrasse alive?
You then end with "I won't speak anymore on this?"
My goodness. Don't tell me that. What should I do? I feel lost.

I had no idea I would have needed to save all my receipts for not only the IRS for my business but also to provide you, someone I don't know, with all the proof regarding when it is that I bought these fish and how long I have had them.
Truly amazing.
You don't know me. As such, I won't tolerate that offensive "you are a liar" tone.
Did you learn any respect for others, specially people you don't know, along with your fishkeeping skills?
Here is a better book for you than any fishkeeping one you can find.....
"How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegy.
Soungs like you need it.

 

[jenni620]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
WHAT? now I love the fact that your running a bio system, HUGE water changes are great. ther are a lot of things you say That I LOVE......
but buying 12 and having one or two survive isnt a success, when your tank is parasite free the ones that cannot conform to a prefab diet die. thats a confirmed FAILURE. this tank is a thumb in the eye of learning husbandry. I am not saying there is nothing to be learned, I am saying buying 12 and seeing if one lives IS NOT GOOD IMO. I do not want to come off as attacking you as any Perspective in this hobby leads to a greater understanding. there is no way you can consider 2 out of 12 good. in the last 5 years I have lost 2 fire fish gobys to carpet surfing. No other fish has died under my care within the last 5 years. prior to that my purple psuedochromis did get infected with a bacterial infection and I treated then sold him. my yellow tang I sold because I only had a 45g at the time, and that is not big enough IMO.
Your tank is beautiful.
in its own way. if you have success with all of those fish long term I salute you, I just dont buy it. sorry. have a nice day I will not speak any more on this.
WOW...

nice attitude...

 

[reefkprz]

by saying I will not speak any more on this is meaning my utmost desire not to come off the way I apparantly did.
I'm sorry.
Honestly.
I will not impinge my untoward remarks on your threads. I am not refusing to participate, I am just saying, as it were"this is my speil, and here it ends" other than that I dont know.
I was not intending offense, If I offended you by providing my point of veiw, I am sorry if I said it in an offensive manner, incredulity can lead to harsh words, there is no way I can retract the words I have said, and I honestly dont know if I would, the 24 hour cycle, I have pulled off more than once but I have also failed at it.....
the worst part of typed words is you cannot look me in the eye when we speak, if you could you would know I LOVE this hobby, many of the theories you promote I have been backing for a long time... eh.

 

[angelman]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
by saying I will not speak any more on this is meaning my utmost desire not to come off the way I apparantly did.
I'm sorry.
Honestly.
I will not impinge my untoward remarks on your threads. I am not refusing to participate, I am just saying, as it were"this is my speil, and here it ends" other than that I dont know.
I was not intending offense, If I offended you by providing my point of veiw, I am sorry if I said it in an offensive manner, incredulity can lead to harsh words, there is no way I can retract the words I have said, and I honestly dont know if I would, the 24 hour cycle, I have pulled off more than once but I have also failed at it.....
the worst part of typed words is you cannot look me in the eye when we speak, if you could you would know I LOVE this hobby, many of the theories you promote I have been backing for a long time... eh.
You are right about lost of translation and emotions in writing.
Apology truly accepted and appreciated.
Likewise from me if I misinterpreted what you said.

 

[beth]

Angelman, welcome to Saltwaterfish.com and the wonderful world of opinionated hobbyists. The tank you have looks amazingly pristine. How do you keep your coral skeletons so clean? The sand so clean?
When I first saw your first picture, your tank reminded of the first marine tanks I had, which were fish-only tanks as yours.
While you have a fairly large tank, I'm afraid you will still find many hobbyist who think that your tank is actually overstocked with fish. An environment that may pose challenging to you as well as the fish. However, no one here has the right to be condescending with their opinions, or to chase off new members whom SWF.com welcomes here. You will find, though, that people in this hobby, who visit forums are pretty passionate about fish tanks and the marine animals we keep. There is no lack of opinions, even unsolicited opinions. I hope this doesn't chase you off and that you will continue to be a welcomed member here. All kinds of point of views abound here, and that is exactly why so many people come here every day to talk and share with each other.
Awesome pictures!

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by AngelMan
You are right about lost of translation and emotions in writing.
Apology truly accepted and appreciated.
Likewise from me if I misinterpreted what you said.
thank you.
for two reasons
1 accepting my apology at face value for what it means. I cant say it any other way. typed words are what they are.
2 I dont think you really misinterpreted what I said. I just said it poorly... usually I have more tact (I hope). I am usually pretty good at providing controversial veiws without sounding like a jerk. not this time. eh. such is life.
sorry again.

 

[peter1215]

angel man
I absolutely am in awe of your tank!!!! I love angels and have two in my 210. I have a 7' queen and a 4" french. I would love to add more angel but have been scared to do so ...you have certainly inspired my to go for it! my questions how did you get all those angels in there without causing so much stress? did you get them at different times ? what method did you use when introducing a new one ? and finally do they get along!
Im thinking of adding either an emperor or a blue face.

 

[goingpoor]

you are super clean with your stuff

nice set up

 

[grubsnaek]

in no way am i a mod on this thread, but on reefkprz half i can say hes a good person, very knowledgable, and sometimes humorous... he has helped many. words that are typed should hold no value for the fact that you cannot see the facial expressions. as i was reading i could see how both of you thought that way. if you think hes talkin trash then you read trash....hope that made sense. undoubtably your tank is insane. your methods are contrast to the normal teachings. but what works for you works for you.
Originally Posted by AngelMan
If anyone decides to try it, don't use test kits as they will be skewed and give a false reading.
Go by the fish.
They will look content and fine.
this was the only thing about your thread that rubbed me wrong. and again not attacking just saying many new hobbiest view and join this board. many have general problems that are very easy to by pass. there either to lazy, do not understand, or just straight up stubborn. so by kinda selling your 4 day cycle might have some people wasting money.
again your views and thoughts are wanted and appreciated, but at some point you had to start off like us. you have your routine down to a science it just might not work for many. just dont want peoples tank to crash because it works for you.
alright enough with that, if i could shake your hand i would shake the hell out of it. i love the black tang. dont know why. there sick, until your thread i never knew they had a blue stripe on them. thanx for the full tank shot. very impressive. after you bleach them, what do you soak them in just SW.

 

[angelman]

Originally Posted by grubsnaek
in no way am i a mod on this thread, but on reefkprz half i can say hes a good person, very knowledgable, and sometimes humorous... he has helped many. words that are typed should hold no value for the fact that you cannot see the facial expressions. as i was reading i could see how both of you thought that way. if you think hes talkin trash then you read trash....hope that made sense. undoubtably your tank is insane. your methods are contrast to the normal teachings. but what works for you works for you.
this was the only thing about your thread that rubbed me wrong. and again not attacking just saying many new hobbiest view and join this board. many have general problems that are very easy to by pass. there either to lazy, do not understand, or just straight up stubborn. so by kinda selling your 4 day cycle might have some people wasting money.
again your views and thoughts are wanted and appreciated, but at some point you had to start off like us. you have your routine down to a science it just might not work for many. just dont want peoples tank to crash because it works for you.
alright enough with that, if i could shake your hand i would shake the hell out of it. i love the black tang. dont know why. there sick, until your thread i never knew they had a blue stripe on them. thanx for the full tank shot. very impressive. after you bleach them, what do you soak them in just SW.
Part 1
I respect your post.
I just want to clarify a few things.
I am not selling anyone on anything.
I am sharing my personal experiences and what has worked for me, for quite some time.
I would hope someone new would read this and it would stir curiosity.
I would also hope someone long term to the hobby would stop and ask, is that really possible?
In both aforementioned scenarios, the same result is achieved. The mind is allowed to step out of the box and question conventional wisdom.
As an analogy, in before 1969, conventional wisdom was man could never, ever walk on the moon. Neil Armstrong and a bunch of guys that defied that thinking proved it otherwise.
Before open heart surgery became as common as the cold, no one ever imagined through conventional wisdom that it would be possible to save so many lives.
Before the mid 1980's, conventional wisdom was defied by the introduction of the cell phone that was as large as a trailer on your car. Even then, who would have imagined it would be so tiny today and be an item owned by everyone, even young kids.

 

[angelman]

Part 2
I can go on and on about defiance of conventional wisdom and the wonderful results for mankind. To relate it to our hobby on hand, I ask the following:
1) Who would have imagined wet dry filters, protein skimmers, uv's and refugiums when the only popular filtration available in our hobby was an undergravel filter? If conventional wisdom persisted, those items would never exist today.
2) Who would have imagined protein skimmers driven by pressure pumps rather than by air stones?
3) When glass tanks were the only game in town, wonder how long it took for acrylic to pick up as conventional wisdom would not allow that to be a possibility. Wonder if they would have ever existed if conventional wisdom was followed.
So, I truly enjoy defying conventional wisdom and through all I experienced in my first few years in the hobby, I set out to find ways of doing things that would be beneficial to me and to my customers alike. I defied a few myths:
1) can't keep cleaner wrasse alive as they won't eat anything but parasites - myth busted over and over again. Sure they are tough to keep alive. No doubt. However, mine (that have lived long term) have always eaten anything I put in the tank. As a matter of fact, will film him eating and post in the next day or so.
2) can't keep many angels together in a tank - myth busted. Had up to 13 in a 75 gallon for over two years. I presently have 8 in the 225 and just about all are very large.
3) angels are hard to keep - myth busted
4) can't cycle a tank in a quick manner - myth busted, over and over. Don't suggest all try it but I can tell you it works. Has anyone on this board so much as tried Bacter Vital and experimented as I did to confirm or refute what I say? If you have and it didn't work, lets talk. Could be a lot of reasons, starting with the fish itself and its condition upon doing this. I must say, all of my fish were handpicked. My son worked for the wholesaler/importer and we were able to pick and choose the best of specimens. That may account of a whole lot of it. I will re-state, I have never lost a fish from doing a rapid cycle. Now, that doesn't mean add all the fish you want. I never said that. I say to all, prove me wrong. Buy a cheap damsel and give it a try. You might be pleasantly surprised.
5) fish need a variety of foods for their diet - sure, may have a lot of validity to it but - myth busted. I feed one thing and one thing alone for years now - Spectrum. Let the photos of my fish speak for themselves. I don't give them vitamins. I would say that emperor looks like he was just caught and yet he has been with me 10 yrs now.
6) test kits - threw them all away. Regular water changes just like a regular bath for me. Keeps me clean. Keeps their world clean. You can spend a whole lot of money on kits and worrying or you can spend it on salt and maintain a clean environment for your pets, or both but I chose the latter. Works for me.
I must clearly state, my experience is limited to fish only systems. I in no way profess to know reefs or intend any of what I have done to apply to reefs.
I hope this clarifies my position for all.
My intention is not to steer anyone in the wrong direction.
I have made many mistakes and have learned lots from them and have also learned lots by stepping out of the box and not accepting what I am told will not work.
I feel there is still so much to learn that it will never end.
I hope to learn from many here. As an example, with reefs, my son's thing. I am lost there and have really enjoyed reading all the post here and have already learned so much.
If by sharing my experiences/practices, you can benefit to learn from my mistakes, then it was all worthwhile.
This goes for anything in life, never accept what someone tells you can't be done. Prove them wrong.

 

[ameno]

great looking tank angel

almost doesn't look real, I don't think I've ever seen a saltwater tank that clean. We all have are own way of doing things that work for us, but I like to see new ideas and the way people have there systems set-up. Sometimes we just have to think outside the box.

 

[angelman]

As promised to share, just uploaded this crude video off one of my digital cameras.
I apologize for the quality and the lighting. Tank was off and I just turned on the blue bulbs only for the video.
Total defiance of conventional wisdom - a Cleaner Wrasse feeding with my big guys, eating Spectrum pellets.
Big guy is not happy as I only gave them the small pellets. He keeps looking for the big ones. Amazing how they know.

 

[ccampbell57]

Your emperor makes mine look like a Vagabond!!!! LOL

I love that Clarion!

 

[kjr_trig]

Page 23 of Robert Fenner's book "The Concientious Marine Aquarist"
"When I was a boy in the Philippines, people kept marine aquariums without electric power--there were no heaters, water-moving pumps, air bubblers, filters, protein skimmers, or ozonizers. I remember being captivated by the big cement and glass tanks with gorgeous displays of Emperor Angels, pairs of saucer sized Collare Butterflies, and dazzling Thaloassoma wrasses, but the observer today would probably be most impressed by the silence and absolute lack of external lifelines."
To the doubters...Open your minds, there might be more than one way to keep a fish alive in an aqarium.
Thanks for the video Angel...That Emperor is amazing!

 

[fishy7]

AngelMan,
Welcome to the board. I look forward to reading your posts based on your experience and involvement in the industry/hobby.
A quick note, THAT is one beautiful tank. Great job.
In this hobby there are infinite amount variables: water chemistry/fish personalities/size of tanks/peoples habits. This list goes one.
I have noticed 3 certainties.
1) What works in your tank may or may not work in mine.
2) Message boards are a great way to research and learn.
3) Everyone has an opinion good or bad with any post.
If you read around you will find "miracles" I used that word loosely.
I have in my tank a pair of gold bands and the female is buddie with a true perk.

 

[angelman]

Originally Posted by FISHY7
AngelMan,
Welcome to the board. I look forward to reading your posts based on your experience and involvement in the industry/hobby.
A quick note, THAT is one beautiful tank. Great job.
In this hobby there are infinite amount variables: warter chemistry/fish personalitites/size of tanks/peoples habits. This list goes one.
I have noticed 3 certainties.
1) What works in your tank may or may not work in mine.
2) Message boards are a great way to research and learn.
3) Everyone has an opinion good or bad with any post.
If you read around you will find "miracles" I used that word loosely.
I have in my tank a pair of gold bands and the female is buddie with a true perk.

Absolutely correct.
I will just add that what I have listed as my "habits" did not just work on the tank pictured.
I have set up and maintained many tanks.
I had until three years ago, on a part time basis, as many as 25 regular maintenance customers at one time (all fish only systems).
I did the same for all of them.
I maintianed all their tanks as I did mine.
Mine are not pot luck, one tank, one time techniques.
I would never profess something to work if it was a one time thing.
I forgot to add in the previous posts, my Zebra Moray Eel loves Spectrum.
I feed him shrimp once a week and Spectrum in between.
The Banana Eel I owned and sold did the same thing.
I would call that another one of those "unconventional things".
That video to follow.

 

[angelman]

Originally Posted by Beth
Angelman, welcome to Saltwaterfish.com and the wonderful world of opinionated hobbyists. The tank you have looks amazingly pristine. How do you keep your coral skeletons so clean? The sand so clean?
When I first saw your first picture, your tank reminded of the first marine tanks I had, which were fish-only tanks as yours.
While you have a fairly large tank, I'm afraid you will still find many hobbyist who think that your tank is actually overstocked with fish. An environment that may pose challenging to you as well as the fish. However, no one here has the right to be condescending with their opinions, or to chase off new members whom SWF.com welcomes here. You will find, though, that people in this hobby, who visit forums are pretty passionate about fish tanks and the marine animals we keep. There is no lack of opinions, even unsolicited opinions. I hope this doesn't chase you off and that you will continue to be a welcomed member here. All kinds of point of views abound here, and that is exactly why so many people come here every day to talk and share with each other.
Awesome pictures!
Beth,
Thanks for the post and welcome.
From my lurking through various posts, I see you are a long term member here and very well respected.
Relative to the area in bold, typically, one would have to absolutely agree. This is particularly true if you rely on what everyone says or if you don't have the capability or equipment to properly care for the system. The interesting thing is that until not too long ago, I actually had a Chrysirus, a Powder Blue, and a Golden Butterfly in there also. The Pomacanthus was getting a tad big and although I loved him, saw dollars in my eyes and an opportunity to make room. The same with the Golden. The Powder Blue was different. He got big and got nasty. He was starting to cause trouble so I sold him also.
My tank has a very effective protein skimmer designed for larger tanks than mine - bigger is better to me.
My water maintenance habits are regular.
I have two tanks in the garage with 100 gallons of RO at any time.
I have a 200 gallon per day RO to make more rapidly if necessary.
I have it set up to simply drop a pump in the tank and readily pull any amount out. The tanks in the garage have a pump to return the new salt water back in the tank.
I feed conservatively - what they need without excessive waste.
Based on the video posted, all can see the fish swimming, playing nice with one another. They are not chasing each other in any way. They truly seem to live happily and pose no challenges of any kind, other than regular water maintenance.
Do most agree this can be done? Of course not.
Can anyone or everyone do this? Of course not.
But, if you invest in the equipment listed and invest the necessary time? Of course anyone can.
All of my customer's tanks were stocked pretty much the same way (numbers of fish that is) as they all wanted what I had when I showed it to them.
This type of tank, with bleached corals, is very, very popular in South Florida. I intentionally set mine up as an ultimate show tank (within my means at the time) for customers and as result, they all wanted what I had. After a while, I felt like I owned many tanks, not one. They were all my playground.

 

[bullitr]

after seeing this i missed my fowlr set up . and thinking of getting another tank and put all reef in it and make my current tank and angels and tangs only tank .
ps. i am unconventional guy too, most often misunderstood.i do things that may work great in my tank and may not for work everyone. just my 2 cents

 

[bullitr]

when i have my fowlr set up i don't test anything too. mostly because of laziness and cheapness.heheheheheheheehehe