New way to cure ich?

[timbodmb]

This is what the MFGR said...
Tim,
Yes we have data that supports our claims, but it has not been made publicly
available.
Our medicine is with out a doubt the best medicine available on the market.
I talk with store owners every single day that say the exact same thing. Not
only is our medicine twice as effective, it is much much safer. We do not
have problems with corals dieing like our competitors do.
It's your choice to decide if you want to use the medicine, I do not want to
try to talk you into a purchase or convince you in anyway. Talk to people
that have actually used the medicine. Actual users. I'm sure you'll hear
good reviews.
Tyler
No Sick Fish
651 340 3339
What do we think?

 

[timbodmb]

Tyler-
I appreciate your response. I will continue to do my research, and try to get some trials going myself. My apprehension is only to protect my investment.
My advise to you and your company, is to release any information that you can, to strengthen your brand and product. My experience on blogs has led me to believe your claims are bogus. All of our goals are financial in business, and I foresee your product doing very well if you keep the consumer's fears in mind.
Good luck to you, a potential customer,
Timothy Ilch

 

[nina&noah]

I got this from their website....
"This medication is used for the treatment of Cryptocaryon and ichthyophthirius. More commonly known as ich or "white spot" disease. The Ich Treatment is highly effective against most forms of the protozoan. 80% of the time after the first 24 hours the ich is visibly gone. It is important to keep treating for the entire week to help ensure any future out breaks. There are many forms of ich and the medicine reacts differently with each variety of the parasite. Two varieties are extremely hard to get rid of and in some cases this medicine will not work. We are seeing around an 85% success rate from customer feedback. There are two potential reasons to why the medicine is not helping an infected fish. The fish may have been infected too long prior to its first dose of medicine. At this point it is much more difficult to fight off ich. There are two strains of ich that are hard to fight. The current solution does help to minimize a tank out break, but there are chances that one or two fish may have trouble making it. As always the medicine is reef safe and invert safe so you will not need to quarantine anything. "
And yet, I want it to work so bad that I am still considering trying it! Wouldn't it be nice to be able to add fish without having to worry about ich.

 

[1journeyman]

Further proof this product is snake oil.
The only reason we QT is to avoid ich??? Two varieties of ich that are hard to get rid of? Fish has been infected too long?
These statements, along with the company's dubious history of using false testimonials from experts in our hobby, make me very hesitant to ever buy one of their products.

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2543318
Further proof this product is snake oil.
The only reason we QT is to avoid ich??? Two varieties of ich that are hard to get rid of? Fish has been infected too long?
These statements, along with the company's dubious history of using false testimonials from experts in our hobby, make me very hesitant to ever buy one of their products.
Yeah, I have to admit, there's a lot of mixed reviews of their products out there, most people claiming it does nothing. And what other types of ich are there (first I've heard of this)? Could they perhaps go into detail with these "hard to get rid of" types? My guess is that simply saing there are "hard to get rid of" types is their way of getting out of any legal responsibility if the product doesn't work.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by m0nk
http:///forum/post/2543343
Yeah, I have to admit, there's a lot of mixed reviews of their products out there, most people claiming it does nothing. And what other types of ich are there (first I've heard of this)? Could they perhaps go into detail with these "hard to get rid of" types?
I have no doubt there are subspecies variations of Ich. But to imply they have studied the various species and isolated two specific ones that are more immune? Come on...

 

[timbodmb]

OK OK... would someone just go get some and try it! Let's consider this thread extinguished until Fats71 can update us with the results... How bout it Fats?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by timbodmb
http:///forum/post/2543482
OK OK... would someone just go get some and try it! Let's consider this thread extinguished until Fats71 can update us with the results... How bout it Fats?

Unfortunately, due to the life cycle of ich, this is not so simple.
The ich can fall off of the fish and still be present in the tank.

 

[perfectdark]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2543543
Unfortunately, due to the life cycle of ich, this is not so simple.
The ich can fall off of the fish and still be present in the tank.

IMO thats where the issues are. A fish that is given an elixir of what ever that stuff is. Weather it promotes a healthy slime coat, prevents new ich from attaching to the fish etc etc.. it doesnt kill the parasite. And in the end when the fish is healthy and has no signs of ich, it is still alive in your tank and will be until you kill it. Weather it shows up on your fish or not... JMO.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by PerfectDark
http:///forum/post/2543565
IMO thats where the issues are. A fish that is given an elixir of what ever that stuff is. Weather it promotes a healthy slime coat, prevents new ich from attaching to the fish etc etc.. it doesnt kill the parasite. And in the end when the fish is healthy and has no signs of ich, it is still alive in your tank and will be until you kill it. Weather it shows up on your fish or not... JMO.
Exactly. That's why responsible companies need to provide facts and studies performed by independent labs instead of testimonials.
I've been around on these boards long enough to know that the vast majority of hobbyists don't understand Ich at all. To therefore base a medications success on testimonials is loopy.

 

[nicetry]

A couple of years ago, when I moderated a disease forum of another board, I received a pm from No Sick Fish asking me to try/endorse their product. They touted all of the claims on their website and essentially tried to convince me that this product was the end all in treating crypt. I replied by simply asking for a list of ingredients, and never heard back from them. Snake oil or not, this company is very guarded, and their reputation is less than squeaky clean. I'll stick with the tried and true methods.

 

[sepulatian]

I have stayed out of this thread so far because most of what I would have said has been covered. There is a huge point missing though. Ich is an invertebrate. You CANNOT kill ich, the most resilient of all of the invertebrates in our systems, without killing the more sensitive ones. How is it that anyone can think that ich would be killed by adding something into their reef? Reef inhabitants will die from acclimation shock, slight ammonia, nitrite, some nitrate, not enough lighting, etc. Ich can be put into FW for three to five minutes. Not all of them will detach. Ich is the cockroach of saltwater life. Everything in the tank could die, if ich was in there, you better believe your booties that if you added a new fish after two weeks, ich would still be alive in the tank. How can you possibly believe that ANY (I do not care who makes it or what is in it) "reef safe" med can kill ich without killing sensitive invertebrates. This is why they (fish and inverts) have to be separated to successfully kill ich. Show me a bee spray that will not kill ants. Ants are more sensitive. You cannot use a bee spray on an ant hill an not expect the ants to die any more than you can use an ich medicine that will not kill other inverts.

 

[the egregious]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2544506
Show me a bee spray that will not kill ants. Ants are more sensitive. You cannot use a bee spray on an ant hill an not expect the ants to die any more than you can use an ich medicine that will not kill other inverts.
Here here

 

[fats71]

Well, It has not been a full week and the fish that looked like a snowball has no visible signs of ich and they have treatedd daily in their reef tank full of inverts coral etc. The fish is eating and is goingn to have to be moved as he is tearing up some expensive corals with large chunks being taken out.
Anyway, I dunno enough about anything to put my two cents in. I just was told it worked saw it work Nothing died nothing else has ich on it buy it or not doesn'nt bother me I hold no stock in the company lol. I will be buying somme however. Even if it were to save my 70 dollar fish and none else it would have been worth the 30 bucks im gonna pay for it since replacment cost of the fishh is still 70 bucks.
.

 

[crimzy]

With all of the posts here, it surprises me that there are only a couple of people that actually offer legitimate advice rather than agendas. Kudos to DanielJames and Perfectdark for their contributions.
Sepulation, Journeyman, Al Mc, Monk... you all seem to completely disregard that there is a potential to TREAT the symptoms of ich without actually killing the parasite. No one has disagreed that hypo and copper are the only recognized way to kill the parasite. I'm not clear why some people go to such lengths to discredit testimonial of effective treatments. Maybe you can enlighten me? Do you think that there is absolutely no value whatsoever to treat symptoms of ich when hypo and copper are not options?
Many people, myself included, have seen certain treatments work. Why is it so important to you to debate these observations to death? Especially when you are generally speaking about products that you've never actually seen in use?

 

[1journeyman]

Hang in there.
Unfortunately, Ich typically drops off a fish as part of it's life cycle and can appear to be gone. That's the difficulty with measuring the success of medications.

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2544843
With all of the posts here, it surprises me that there are only a couple of people that actually offer legitimate advice rather than agendas. Kudos to DanielJames and Perfectdark for their contributions.
Sepulation, Journeyman, Al Mc, Monk... you all seem to completely disregard that there is a potential to TREAT the symptoms of ich without actually killing the parasite. No one has disagreed that hypo and copper are the only recognized way to kill the parasite. I'm not clear why some people go to such lengths to discredit testimonial of effective treatments. Maybe you can enlighten me? Do you think that there is absolutely no value whatsoever to treat symptoms of ich when hypo and copper are not options?
Many people, myself included, have seen certain treatments work. Why is it so important to you to debate these observations to death? Especially when you are generally speaking about products that you've never actually seen in use?
I'm not disregarding the potential to treat the symptoms, just the accuracy of the "testimonials" used by the creator of that one product. I use kick-ich in many cases and can say that it does make a difference. Usually, though, it's like treating the symptoms of the common cold (bad analogy, just one that works): you can help ease the stress of the runny nose, headache, coughing, etc, but in the end it's not a cure for the cold.
Lately, though, I've gotten rather sick of hypo because somehow ich has made it's way into my new DT and I'm sick of taking fish out and going through hypo... so my current train of thought is that I'll feed with garlic, use kick-ich, and if the fish survive they'll be better off in fighting ich in the future. I may change my mind in the future, but with all the painstaking effort I put into hypo on the fish (twice), not to mention the fish that I lost during the hypo process (stress of the process killed them due to weakened immune system from the ich), only for it to end up in my DT again, has worn me out, so I give up.

 

[1journeyman]

I'm not disregarding anything Crimzy.
I spent a couple of hours researching this product. I posted my results;
*The company in question will not explain what is in their product
*Company will not post any reports of the testing that they supposedly did
*Company makes false claims regarding Ich
*Company uses false testimonials acredited to experts in our field. Those same experts have disavowed ever endorsing the product.
So, based on my limited investigation, I fall back to suggesting curing a preventable disease over trying to put a Band Aid on it.
I would rather suggest doing nothing over using a dubious product if those are my two choices.

 

[1journeyman]

Monk, it sounds to me like you're one of the unfortunate few who has the ugliest of the ugly species of Ich... For you, copper may be the only solution.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2545071
I would rather suggest doing nothing over using a dubious product if those are my two choices.
In the meantime you are disregarding the people who have indicated to you, at nauseum, that they've had good results. Since a lot of people on here consider the mods to have the best answers, your stubborness is going to cost fish lives.
And just out of curiosity, can you tell me which of the ich meds you don't find to be "dubious"?