Obama for President = Second Coming?

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2811702
If God was perfect, he wouldn't create anything as he'd have no need or want to do so... perfect beings don't create imperfect beings as they're a sign of need or what as well as a bad reflection on the ability of the perfect being. thanks..
I don't expect God to be anything actually, I don't belive. Also to allow freewill is a sign of weakness as it strays from perfection. Have a nice day. God is imperfect or doesn't exist, pick one.
Wow I really don't know what to say to something like that... except maybe with a few questions...
1. Doesn't it take a perfect person to truly understand what perfection is? I mean, if perfection was some form of enlightenment, wouldn't you need to acheive that to be able to wrap your head around what perfection is? If that's the case, shouldn't you be perfect before you tell others what perfection is? Humans are so messed up, we're anything BUT perfect... Trying to comprehend perfection would be like ants trying to comprehend the lives that humans live. It's simply not possible. I'll agree with you when you show me your certificate of perfection.
2. If free will is a sign of weakness, then doesn't that mean everyone is weak? Except for maybe Hitler who was a supremacist - didn't believe in the word "choice" for people. Isn't that what you're trying to say? Free will = weakness? I'm sure you'd begin to appreciate the value in your free will when someone takes it from you, like Hussein or Hitler did to countless lives.
3. What's with this "thanks" and "have a nice day" business? It doesn't make any sense, and I think my IQ actually goes down as I read it... Sorry man, but it's just a dumb thing to say.

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2811753
So we were created out of Perfect Love, yet it is going to send us to hell if we don't believe or commit some other unforgivable sin due to the free will it gave us? Seriously, do you think something that has the power to create everything would really care if we believed in it??
I think so. If I built my own house, I'd totally be proud of it, and proud of myself. And if someone came and burned it to the ground, I'd be furious.
In the same way, if God created us and we fall to sin, choosing to hate He who created us, there's really nothing God should do... if he gives you the choice and you choose not to follow him, that's your problem, not God's.
Lastly, there is no such thing as an unforgivable sin. Biblically, all sin is the same in the eyes of God.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2811767
I think so. If I built my own house, I'd totally be proud of it, and proud of myself. And if someone came and burned it to the ground, I'd be furious.
In the same way, if God created us and we fall to sin, choosing to hate He who created us, there's really nothing God should do... if he gives you the choice and you choose not to follow him, that's your problem, not God's.
Lastly, there is no such thing as an unforgivable sin. Biblically, all sin is the same in the eyes of God.
Let me ask you this, if god is truly omnipotent then didn't it know the second we were created if we'd go to heaven or hell --if we'd be sinners or non believers? In that sense, weren't we doomed or saved before we were even created?
Also, if god is indeed benevolent then it has only one option in any situation and that is the option that causes the most amount of good, which means that god does not have freewill. Also, if it is all knowing then it must know all of it's future actions and has no free will to change them right?

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2811820
Let me ask you this, if god is truly omnipotent then didn't it know the second we were created if we'd go to heaven or hell --if we'd be sinners or non believers? In that sense, weren't we doomed or saved before we were even created?
Also, if god is indeed benevolent then it has only one option in any situation and that is the option that causes the most amount of good, which means that god does not have freewill. Also, if it is all knowing then it must know all of it's future actions and has no free will to change them right?
You just touched upon one of the biggest debates in religious history - the difference between free will and predestination.
That's what predestination is: God knowing every decision you make before you make it... ultimately leading to Heaven or Hell.
Free will is the easiest to understand because it talks about the biblical freedom people have in this world... it falls under the "Stuff we have as Christians" category. Predestination, omnipotence, omniscience... all traits of God... and that topic falls under the "Understanding God" Category. We'll never be able to understand God so that category goes regularly untouched.
Long story short, this is one of the questions I simply can't answer. I honestly have no idea how that whole thing works because I'd need to understand God. Since I'm not God, or at his level, I have no clue. Sorry dude. Like ants can't understand humans, humans just can't fully understand God.

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2811625
You guys make me laugh. Thoughout the recorded history of man people have always thought the end of the world is near and guess what--it hasn't ended yet.
Explain this to the dinosaurs.

 

[sickboy]

Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2812269
Explain this to the dinosaurs.
Ah, but did the world die?? No, just the dinosaurs.
And speaking of things such as dinosaurs, why weren't they mentioned in the bible, or other planets, or that the sun was the center of the universe and not the earth?? And any number of other such thing....
Because the people at the time were too stupid to understand it!!
So, if these people were the ones that god decided to reveal himself to, then god couldn't be all knowing, as he would have put stuff in there for future generations. If god is all powerful, why would he simply not just show up again and set us straight? What would it harm?? If he was mad, he would do it, its "documented" in the bible.
Of course maybe he has come back and we have him locked in a loony bin b/c he claimed to talk to god.....
Also, doesn't the mere proof of dinosaurs existence ruin the creationist story??

 

[rotarymagic]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2811753
So we were created out of Perfect Love, yet it is going to send us to hell if we don't believe or commit some other unforgivable sin due to the free will it gave us? Seriously, do you think something that has the power to create everything would really care if we believed in it?
The god that Christians worship was created in the image of man with the same flaws and human traits.
I do have another question for Veni; do you believe that natural disasters are created by god?
I hate to say it, but we're in agreement on something...
man created god in their image and claimed the opposite.

 

[rotarymagic]

Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2811754
Wow I really don't know what to say to something like that... except maybe with a few questions...
1. Doesn't it take a perfect person to truly understand what perfection is? I mean, if perfection was some form of enlightenment, wouldn't you need to acheive that to be able to wrap your head around what perfection is? If that's the case, shouldn't you be perfect before you tell others what perfection is? Humans are so messed up, we're anything BUT perfect... Trying to comprehend perfection would be like ants trying to comprehend the lives that humans live. It's simply not possible. I'll agree with you when you show me your certificate of perfection. So you're using the eastern religious perfection is that which is unutterable? BTW we can always do my train experiment if you want to truly prove something. Perfect love remember, if he perfectly loved you... the train would not hit you. Imagine if you some how lived briefly after being hit and were maimed and had to wait to die all the while choking on your own blood...would you think to yourself "This is perfect love man"? I'll also agree with you when your God shows up, remember omnipresence and omniscience? He would know you were there and know that your situation was dire and if he were truly omnibenevolent, he'd save you
2. If free will is a sign of weakness, then doesn't that mean everyone is weak? Except for maybe Hitler who was a supremacist - didn't believe in the word "choice" for people. Isn't that what you're trying to say? Free will = weakness? I'm sure you'd begin to appreciate the value in your free will when someone takes it from you, like Hussein or Hitler did to countless lives. See you are comparing the actions of imperfect beings upon others with the so called actions of a "perfect" being.. these are not compatible because imperfect beings have wants, needs and desires thus lacking parts from the whole where as a perfect being lacks nothing from the whole and has none of these wants, needs, or desires and wouldn't have any reason to create man or much less anything else.
3. What's with this "thanks" and "have a nice day" business? It doesn't make any sense, and I think my IQ actually goes down as I read it... Sorry man, but it's just a dumb thing to say. I'm keeping it friendly, would you rather me say "See you on the pyre when the train doesn't stop and your God doesn't show because something that doesn't exist won't show.. a nothing cannot do anything because in the physical sense, it is no-thing which means its lacks the characteristic of having existed at some point."?
Your IQ dropped because you are stuck in a fantasy land and unable to grasp ideas beyond the realm of the fear instilled into you by works of other humans. Still feel like you're on a cloud?

 

[rotarymagic]

Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2811866
You just touched upon one of the biggest debates in religious history - the difference between free will and predestination.
That's what predestination is: God knowing every decision you make before you make it... ultimately leading to Heaven or Hell.
Free will is the easiest to understand because it talks about the biblical freedom people have in this world... it falls under the "Stuff we have as Christians" category. Predestination, omnipotence, omniscience... all traits of God... and that topic falls under the "Understanding God" Category. We'll never be able to understand God so that category goes regularly untouched.
Long story short, this is one of the questions I simply can't answer. I honestly have no idea how that whole thing works because I'd need to understand God. Since I'm not God, or at his level, I have no clue. Sorry dude. Like ants can't understand humans, humans just can't fully understand God.

You're right about not understanding God... can't understand that which doesn't exist aka a no-thing. Can't know a no-thing either..that which does not exist can't be known.

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2812461
Your IQ dropped because you are stuck in a fantasy land and unable to grasp ideas beyond the realm of the fear instilled into you by works of other humans. Still feel like you're on a cloud?
First of all, I am not fearful. Lets just lay down that as a foundation here. Secondly, I am on no cloud... I used to be but it wasn't until I fell from the faith and became just like you that I realized the truth. Third, I wouldn't be stupid enough to put myself in front of a train. Anyone who does probably deserves not to be saved by God.
Explain to me why there is no God. And please, spare me from all the IF THEN statements. IF God is omnipotent... etc. You're trying to wrap your head around stuff you will never comprehend when you do that.
Do you believe in evolution? I'd be surprised if you did, the seemingly educated person you are. There are vast amounts of evidence (growing daily) proving evolution to be wrong. Many scientists still cling to evolution as their answer because they're too scared to admit that what they so firmly root themselves in is wrong. Yes. Evolution as we know it is wrong. I can give you a plethora of facts about why it's wrong... and a list of names of reputable and influential scientists who have the guts to admit it.
So c'mon, JR. Show me some proof that there is no God... or stay off this thread.

 

[ironeagle2006]

Around here there are a few of us that are SCARED CRAPLESS here. The reason is that we live in Obamaland and his close buddy just cost including directly the gaurds at Pontiac over 2800 JOBS since 2 people had the BALLS to tell GOV Blowdryer NO.

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2812443
Ah, but did the world die?? No, just the dinosaurs.
And speaking of things such as dinosaurs, why weren't they mentioned in the bible, or other planets, or that the sun was the center of the universe and not the earth?? And any number of other such thing....
Because the people at the time were too stupid to understand it!!
So, if these people were the ones that god decided to reveal himself to, then god couldn't be all knowing, as he would have put stuff in there for future generations. If god is all powerful, why would he simply not just show up again and set us straight? What would it harm?? If he was mad, he would do it, its "documented" in the bible.
Of course maybe he has come back and we have him locked in a loony bin b/c he claimed to talk to god.....
Also, doesn't the mere proof of dinosaurs existence ruin the creationist story??

the bible does talk about the dinosaurs. you can answer your own questions just read the bible

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2812472
First of all, I am not fearful. Lets just lay down that as a foundation here. Secondly, I am on no cloud... I used to be but it wasn't until I fell from the faith and became just like you that I realized the truth. Third, I wouldn't be stupid enough to put myself in front of a train. Anyone who does probably deserves not to be saved by God.
Explain to me why there is no God. And please, spare me from all the IF THEN statements. IF God is omnipotent... etc. You're trying to wrap your head around stuff you will never comprehend when you do that.
Do you believe in evolution? I'd be surprised if you did, the seemingly educated person you are. There are vast amounts of evidence (growing daily) proving evolution to be wrong. Many scientists still cling to evolution as their answer because they're too scared to admit that what they so firmly root themselves in is wrong. Yes. Evolution as we know it is wrong. I can give you a plethora of facts about why it's wrong... and a list of names of reputable and influential scientists who have the guts to admit it.
So c'mon, JR. Show me some proof that there is no God... or stay off this thread.

I would wager that the vast majority of people with a higher education would believe in a evolution which is a real theory. Whereas creationism is nothing more then beliefs based on faith.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2812443
Ah, but did the world die?? No, just the dinosaurs.
And speaking of things such as dinosaurs, why weren't they mentioned in the bible, or other planets, or that the sun was the center of the universe and not the earth?? And any number of other such thing....
I've got several old science books from college. None of them mention George Washington. Based on your logic, either George Washington didn't exist, or my books are wrong.
The Bible was not written as a Science book.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2812540
I would wager that the vast majority of people with a higher education would believe in a evolution which is a real theory. Whereas creationism is nothing more then beliefs based on faith.
A Theory is a set of ideas or an explanation to something unproven.
I see no difference between the two.

 

[geridoc]

Originally Posted by nwdyr
http:///forum/post/2811707
I think Obama will win , I almost hope he does ,just so I can check with you supports in a year and ask you how he has been doing

He keeps saying he is for "us" the "middle class" and McCain is for "the big guys" well..... lets see....Mr Obama has spent 3x the money of ANY candidate ,,,,EVER...wonder where he got ALL THAT MONEY???? pssst he got it from "the big guys" and they are going to want a return on that money....just like McCain and ALL OF THEM....DUHHHH. Here is a comparison for ya Crimzy....Obama wears 2,000.00 suite's and Palin wears 2,000.00 skirts. But I guess you are right because nobody makes fun of him for it...hmmmm I wonder why

Nobody makes fun of Obama's suits because he earned the money to buy them from the books he wrote. OTOH, Palin may not read books.

 

[geridoc]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2812565
A Theory is a set of ideas or an explanation to something unproven.
I see no difference between the two.
From the National Academy of Science, USA:
"Acceptance of evolution is not the same as a religious belief. Scientists’ confidence about the occurrence of evolution is based on an overwhelming amount of supporting evidence gathered from many aspects of the natural world. To be accepted, scientific knowledge has to withstand the scrutiny of testing, retesting, and experimentation. Evolution is accepted within the scientific community because the concept has withstood extensive testing by many thousands of scientists for more than a century. As a 2006 “Statement on the Teaching of Evolution” from the Interacademy Panel on International Issues, a global network of national science academies, said, “Evidence-based facts about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines” (emphasis in original). (See http://www.interacademies.net/Object...0statement.pdf.)
Many religious beliefs do not rely on evidence gathered from the natural world. On the contrary, an important component of religious belief is faith, which implies acceptance of a truth regardless of the presence of empirical evidence for or against that truth. Scientists cannot accept scientific conclusions on faith alone because all such conclusions must be subject to testing against observations. Thus, scientists do not “believe” in evolution in the same way that someone believes in God."
Journey: There is a difference between the two. But, we shouldn't hijack this thread, so I'll shut up at this point.

 

[nwdyr]

Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2812567
Nobody makes fun of Obama's suits because he earned the money to buy them from the books he wrote. OTOH, Palin may not read books.
Did Obama "earn" the 80 Mil it cost to watch his house here in Chicago?? Like I said and nobody can argue....because it's true ,he has spent 3x more then ANY Pres. Candidate ...EVER! in all history! Blind where you want to be.....I get it

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by nwdyr
http:///forum/post/2812591
Did Obama "earn" the 80 Mil it cost to watch his house here in Chicago?? Like I said and nobody can argue....because it's true ,he has spent 3x more then ANY Pres. Candidate ...EVER! in all history! Blind where you want to be.....I get it
80mil to watch his house??
If he wasn't able to raise the money then he wouldn't have been able to spend it -- it goes to show how sucessful he has been at fund raising. If I am not mistaken the average contribution has been under $100.
I don't think Palin does a lot of reading, she couldn't even name the newspapers she reads

 

[geridoc]

Originally Posted by nwdyr
http:///forum/post/2812591
Did Obama "earn" the 80 Mil it cost to watch his house here in Chicago?? Like I said and nobody can argue....because it's true ,he has spent 3x more then ANY Pres. Candidate ...EVER! in all history! Blind where you want to be.....I get it
Yes, of course Obama earned the (I'll accept your figure) 80 million to watch his house - by being nominated for the Presidency. The job comes with Secret Service protection. Trust me, securing McCain's houses costs more than that, and isn't relevant, either.