Obama opinion

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion#post_3383902
If unemployment is still over 8.5 and gas is more than 3.50 a gallon 0bama is toast unless the Pubs do something really dumb. Not sure Paul is the one who can sell the Libertarian platform to the country even running as a Republican. Most people think Libertarians are kooks because you can't really explain the rationale behind their policies in commercial soundbites.
If gas maintains the same rate we're at right now for another year and a half, we're all toast anyways. Exactly how much power does the White House have to control prices, when OPEC and foreign entities hold all the cards?

 

[slice]

I could not vote.
The poll choices were too subjective; they did not include proper choices such as "incompetent", "destructive" or "wrong vision".

 

[mantisman51]

^^^ True. I don't think he's a communist revolutionary waiting to destroy our country as we know it. I think he is too far left and makes poor decisions. That means I disagree with him and those who he surrounds himself with; not hate, not want to see dead, nothing stupid like that. There is still a place in American politics to disagree without all the fighting and hatred.

 

[btldreef]

I honestly think that anyone who was thrown into office after the last 8 years was doomed, Republican, Democrat or even Mickey Mouse. This country is torn apart and it's sad. We need someone in the middle who walks the line, and unfortunately the big powerhouse political parties are never going to allow that.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3383975
If gas maintains the same rate we're at right now for another year and a half, we're all toast anyways. Exactly how much power does the White House have to control prices, when OPEC and foreign entities hold all the cards?
Very little short term but long term quite a bit. If we had started drilling back during the Clinton era when he said "it would take 10 years before that oil get to the market" that oil would already be on the market. Oil and gas jobs are pretty good even at the grunt level, we should be doing everything we can to increase their numbers here in the states.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3383998
Very little short term but long term quite a bit. If we had started drilling back during the Clinton era when he said "it would take 10 years before that oil get to the market" that oil would already be on the market. Oil and gas jobs are pretty good even at the grunt level, we should be doing everything we can to increase their numbers here in the states.
If we opened up every available well in the US, we'd only be providing around 5% of the world's oil supply. Meanwhile, US oil consumption hits around 20%. Unless we only used the oil we pumped for US Domestic use (selling it only to US refineries), we'll never dig ourselves out of the hole we're in.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384012
If we opened up every available well in the US, we'd only be providing around 5% of the world's oil supply. Meanwhile, US oil consumption hits around 20%. Unless we only used the oil we pumped for US Domestic use (selling it only to US refineries), we'll never dig ourselves out of the hole we're in.
Every barrel pumped here provides royalties and or taxes to our government. 5% would be about double our current production and would have a pretty big impact on prices here. Every additional barrel we pump helps force prices down. So would using natural gas. Instead of subsidizing turning corn into inefficient fuel would should be pushing natural gas conversions and coal gassification which creates a wonder fuel that can be used in diesels and jet engines. Our military is a ready made market for that. Both take the pressure off oil demand and again, create US jobs without spiking the price of corn.

 

[slice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384012
If we opened up every available well in the US, we'd only be providing around 5% of the world's oil supply. Meanwhile, US oil consumption hits around 20%. Unless we only used the oil we pumped for US Domestic use (selling it only to US refineries), we'll never dig ourselves out of the hole we're in.
This is an example of the half-truth and misdirection that is the hallmark of many liberal arguments. The above is true only as far as it goes, but leaves out the bulk of the truth that refutes the premise.
It only takes a few minutes to google oil reserves to find the difference between "discovered", "recoverable" and "tapped" oil reserves.
A few minutes more research, much from ".gov" sites show that discovered, recoverable oil reserves in the US would dwarf middle east discovered, recoverable reserves.
Estimated undiscovered reserves could make us all kings.
If we had the political will to exploit our own resources, we could easily tell the middle east to F off.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384022
This is an example of the half-truth and misdirection that is the hallmark of many liberal arguments. The above is true only as far as it goes, but leaves out the bulk of the truth that refutes the premise.
It only takes a few minutes to google oil reserves to find the difference between "discovered", "recoverable" and "tapped" oil reserves.
A few minutes more research, much from ".gov" sites show that discovered, recoverable oil reserves in the US would dwarf middle east discovered, recoverable reserves.
Estimated undiscovered reserves could make us all kings.
If we had the political will to exploit our own resources, we could easily tell the middle east to F off.
Guess you have no problems that some of those "discovered", "recoverable" resources are in environmentally-sensitive areas. Screw the polar bears, screw the National Parks, as long as you can fill up the Hummers and F-350's.
Even if it were 15%, it still won't meet US consumption demands. As long as you have to obtain ANY oil from foreign entities, you have to play their game. Nothing says love than have an oil derrick in your backyard.

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384049
Guess you have no problems that some of those "discovered", "recoverable" resources are in environmentally-sensitive areas. Screw the polar bears, screw the National Parks, as long as you can fill up the Hummers and F-350's.
Even if it were 15%, it still won't meet US consumption demands. As long as you have to obtain ANY oil from foreign entities, you have to play their game. Nothing says love than have an oil derrick in your backyard.
More proof that the apocalypse is near. Bang Guy and Bionicarm are in agreement

 

[slice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384049
Guess you have no problems that some of those "discovered", "recoverable" resources are in environmentally-sensitive areas. Screw the polar bears, screw the National Parks, as long as you can fill up the Hummers and F-350's.
Even if it were 15%, it still won't meet US consumption demands. As long as you have to obtain ANY oil from foreign entities, you have to play their game. Nothing says love than have an oil derrick in your backyard.
Your premise that it is either energy independence or environmental disaster is a false dichotomy.
It also amazes me that we will trust the environment to others more than we trust it to ourselves.
Who here thinks the Saudis have a more stringent EPA than we do? IS there any such thing? How about the Iranians? Think they give a snit about the environment? Continuing to insist we enable others to do whatever they wish as they wish when they wish and calling ourselves environmentally friendly is idiocy.
Have you ever researched world wide oil spills? We do things here much better than anyone. A true environmentally conscientious person would INSIST we do our own drilling so we can keep a better eye on it than is currently done elsewhere.
Also, I never said we should not try to conserve.
The most conservative estimates of our discovered recoverable resources is 41 years at current levels of consumption. A bit of conservation could extend that considerably.
Other estimates go into millennium. Keeping the revenue HERE could go a long way to develop alternative energy resources that could break the cycle.
I see roadblocks to using our own resources as a roadblock to breaking the cycle. We must develop alternative energy resources, but sending so much of our capitol overseas tends to perpetuate this condition. Alternative energy sources are 15-20 years in the future AT BEST. Who is going to develop it for us? The Saudis? We will soon be too broke to do it ourselves.
With our economy stagnating and our deficits surging, it simply makes too much sense for us to use our own resources.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384049
Guess you have no problems that some of those "discovered", "recoverable" resources are in environmentally-sensitive areas. Screw the polar bears, screw the National Parks, as long as you can fill up the Hummers and F-350's.
Even if it were 15%, it still won't meet US consumption demands. As long as you have to obtain ANY oil from foreign entities, you have to play their game. Nothing says love than have an oil derrick in your backyard.
Polar bears? How does oil production harm them? If you take an 81/2 x 11 sheet of paper and call it ANWAR and place a postage stamp on it that is about the size of the area they want to produce oil from. Even then having grown up in a oil field I can tell you they are full of wildlife. They used the same argument when the Alaska pipeline was being built and guess what. The poor Caribou who where going to be wiped out by the pipeline have actually had a population explosion as a direct result of the pipeline.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384058
Your premise that it is either energy independence or environmental disaster is a false dichotomy.
It also amazes me that we will trust the environment to others more than we trust it to ourselves.
Who here thinks the Saudis have a more stringent EPA than we do? IS there any such thing? How about the Iranians? Think they give a snit about the environment? Continuing to insist we enable others to do whatever they wish as they wish when they wish and calling ourselves environmentally friendly is idiocy.
Have you ever researched world wide oil spills? We do things here much better than anyone. A true environmentally conscientious person would INSIST we do our own drilling so we can keep a better eye on it than is currently done elsewhere.
Also, I never said we should not try to conserve.
The most conservative estimates of our discovered recoverable resources is 41 years at current levels of consumption. A bit of conservation could extend that considerably.
Other estimates go into millennium. Keeping the revenue HERE could go a long way to develop alternative energy resources that could break the cycle.
I see roadblocks to using our own resources as a roadblock to breaking the cycle. We must develop alternative energy resources, but sending so much of our capitol overseas tends to perpetuate this condition. Alternative energy sources are 15-20 years in the future AT BEST. Who is going to develop it for us? The Saudis? We will soon be too broke to do it ourselves.
With our economy stagnating and our deficits surging, it simply makes too much sense for us to use our own resources.
LOL! Yeah China and Cuba can drill off Florida but not US companies. Obama places a ban on deepwater drilling here then loans Brazil billions to do deepwater drilling in the gulf. Makes sense.....

 

[slice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384067
Polar bears? How does oil production harm them? If you take an 81/2 x 11 sheet of paper and call it ANWAR and place a postage stamp on it that is about the size of the area they want to produce oil from. Even then having grown up in a oil field I can tell you they are full of wildlife. They used the same argument when the Alaska pipeline was being built and guess what. The poor Caribou who where going to be wiped out by the pipeline have actually had a population explosion as a direct result of the pipeline.
The other description is ANWR being the size of an airport in South Carolina. Yes, the Caribou really enjoy the warmth of the pipeline.

 

[slice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384068
LOL! Yeah China and Cuba can drill off Florida but not US companies. Obama places a ban on deepwater drilling here then loans Brazil billions to do deepwater drilling in the gulf. Makes sense.....
Yes, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.
We must learn to trust the environmental conscience of China, Cuba and Brazil.

 

[bionicarm]

You really want to compare the landscape of Saudi Arabia and Iran too that of the US? Go drill to your hearts content in Death Valley and the Salt Flats if you want to do a comparison.
Yes, the vast wide open space of ANWAR is always used as a perfect example of how we could drill and not affect the ecological balance of a region by drilling. But you won't know the long-term affects of that drilling until it's too late. Could turn out exactly like the Pipeline. But then again...

 

[slice]

 

[bang guy]

Small, standardized, safe, cookie-cutter nuclear powerplant designs have been available for more than a decade. These are an excellent intermediate energy solution that allows us to become energy independent while we pursue even better sources of energy.

 

[slice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384101
Small, standardized, safe, cookie-cutter nuclear powerplant designs have been available for more than a decade. These are an excellent intermediate energy solution that allows us to become energy independent while we pursue even better sources of energy.
I agree with this completely. The "enlightened one" campaigned on this as well. "Clean Coal" too...
Its all about political will....or buffoonery...

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384086
You really want to compare the landscape of Saudi Arabia and Iran too that of the US? Go drill to your hearts content in Death Valley and the Salt Flats if you want to do a comparison.
Yes, the vast wide open space of ANWAR is always used as a perfect example of how we could drill and not affect the ecological balance of a region by drilling. But you won't know the long-term affects of that drilling until it's too late. Could turn out exactly like the Pipeline. But then again...
Snort. They claim it's important calving grounds for a species of Caribou that migrates over 1000 miles to do so. I suspect the animals would have no problem finding plenty of calving locations along it's route if the drilling offends it. It's just like the people claiming logging roads keep Grizzly bears from habitat because they wont cross the roads. Total BS. The only one I every saw was walking down a gravel road.