Obama opinion

darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

You really want to compare the landscape of Saudi Arabia and Iran too that of the US? Go drill to your hearts content in Death Valley and the Salt Flats if you want to do a comparison.

Yes, the vast wide open space of ANWAR is always used as a perfect example of how we could drill and not affect the ecological balance of a region by drilling. But you won't know the long-term affects of that drilling until it's too late. Could turn out exactly like the Pipeline. But then again...
What about venezuela, brazil? Are you saying third world countries pump oil with better care and concern for the environment? Are you saying they don't pollutue the land air and sea as much as we do?
Yes or no question.
Also..what is your alternative to oil?
I like the mini nuclear plants.....been doing a lot of research on them...possibility for meltdown is miniscule when compred to the big boys. And one can power a city the size of vegas.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
I submit this for consideration...
We took a trip to Dauphin Island last weekend. Down here in the Mobile, AL, it's split by the Mobile Bay. The west side of the bay is the actual Mobile city, and where most of the industry is. The east side is more agriculture but more preferred area to live in. It's beaches are far more popular then Mobile's beach for tourists and residents. We've never been to the Mobile-side beaches before, so we headed to historic Dauphin Island and Fort Gaines specifically. Great old 1800's era fort. The drive in seemed great;

And if you look at just the fort, you don't see anything unusual yet. Fort is right on the beach.

However turn your head seaward, and it becomes immediately apparent;

Close up of the rig;

That was just one of 10 or so rigs you could see from the beach. Then it hit us, why would anyone ever come here, with all those "glamorous" rigs dotting the view? Drive over the bay and come to where you can't see them.
I sorta was a 'drill-now' person. And to an extent, I still am. Just thought to share what "drilling here and now" looks like first hand.
EDIT: After reaching my opinion for this very post, my thoughts on this subject may have actually changed. I definitely though the US imported more oil then it does. We're somewhere in the area of 48%-53% imported. I really thought the US was making much less, closer to only 20%. I was going to write a pseudo-rant about if the Horizon's disaster with worth the negligible percentage of oil production. Though total (Gulf + California + Alaska) off-shore drilling accounts for just 5%-6% of oil consumed in the US, so it holds a little bit of water.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384130
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/20#post_3384086
You really want to compare the landscape of Saudi Arabia and Iran too that of the US? Go drill to your hearts content in Death Valley and the Salt Flats if you want to do a comparison.
Yes, the vast wide open space of ANWAR is always used as a perfect example of how we could drill and not affect the ecological balance of a region by drilling. But you won't know the long-term affects of that drilling until it's too late. Could turn out exactly like the Pipeline. But then again...
What about venezuela, brazil? Are you saying third world countries pump oil with better care and concern for the environment? Are you saying they don't pollutue the land air and sea as much as we do?
Yes or no question.
Also..what is your alternative to oil?
I like the mini nuclear plants.....been doing a lot of research on them...possibility for meltdown is miniscule when compred to the big boys. And one can power a city the size of vegas.
I couldn't tell you what other countries environmental policies are, because I don't live there. I personally could care less what they are, because I don't live there. You say we should just throw a rig anywhere we can find oil simply to satisfy our insatiable need for that 'black gold'. The experts tell us there's enough oil underground to last us centuries. The question is, what will be the cost to extract that oil? Oil exploration and drilling doesn't come cheap. Equipment costs, labor costs, operational costs, etc., increase like the economy. Just because the oil is there, doesn't mean it's low-cost to pull it out. Ironically, they need that same oil and gas they are drilling for to operate all their machinery. You think they get some 'special discount' because they're in the business? Oil companies are in it for the money. People think if we drill on US soil, they'll one day see $2.00/gallon gas again. That's what is called living in a fantasy world. Countries that have low gas prices like Venezuela, Saudai, and Kuwait where massive oil production is performed, have their prices regulated by the government. Unlike the US, the government determines the price, not the oil companies. You willing to turn total control of the US oil and gas production over to the Feds, just so you can buy gas at $1.50/gallon? Yea, like that would ever happen...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
The "cheap" oil is on shore and just off the coast. The deepwater wells are more expensive to develop BUT also tend to have much higher yields so is it really any more expensive. Thing is if we drill here, especially off shore the government earns revenue from lease fees, royalties and income taxes from the jobs created so even if it doesn't affect the price of gas it's a good deal for us.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384284
I couldn't tell you what other countries environmental policies are, because I don't live there. I personally could care less what they are, because I don't live there. You say we should just throw a rig anywhere we can find oil simply to satisfy our insatiable need for that 'black gold'. The experts tell us there's enough oil underground to last us centuries. The question is, what will be the cost to extract that oil? Oil exploration and drilling doesn't come cheap. Equipment costs, labor costs, operational costs, etc., increase like the economy. Just because the oil is there, doesn't mean it's low-cost to pull it out. Ironically, they need that same oil and gas they are drilling for to operate all their machinery. You think they get some 'special discount' because they're in the business? Oil companies are in it for the money. People think if we drill on US soil, they'll one day see $2.00/gallon gas again. That's what is called living in a fantasy world. Countries that have low gas prices like Venezuela, Saudai, and Kuwait where massive oil production is performed, have their prices regulated by the government. Unlike the US, the government determines the price, not the oil companies. You willing to turn total control of the US oil and gas production over to the Feds, just so you can buy gas at $1.50/gallon? Yea, like that would ever happen...
There is your circular logic coming out again. You claim to have concerns about drilling and its effects on the environment, then When faced with the greater environmental damage created by unregulated countries drilling, you say "I don't care I don't live there.". See you don't really care about the environment...you are content for other countries to drill and ruin the environment far more than if we did the drilling. I have NEVER said put a rig anywhere there is oil......there you go again making ASSumptions again. I don't even care if the price of oil stays the same even if we were to drill...however the advantages to the increased GDP and tax revenue collected on a single oil venture might just help get us out of this deficit mess we are...and then you could KEEP your Obama care as we could actually afford it.
Let me ask you this, would you accept government funded healthcare if it was funded by oil drilling and exploration?
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384294
The "cheap" oil is on shore and just off the coast. The deepwater wells are more expensive to develop BUT also tend to have much higher yields so is it really any more expensive. Thing is if we drill here, especially off shore the government earns revenue from lease fees, royalties and income taxes from the jobs created so even if it doesn't affect the price of gas it's a good deal for us.
I'm all for keeping it "in house", and increasing our employment numbers. But too many people don't see those benefits. All they see is "drill locally, prices will come down". I would agree you would see declines, but I'd guesstimate maybe 15% at the most.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384323
I'm all for keeping it "in house", and increasing our employment numbers. But too many people don't see those benefits. All they see is "drill locally, prices will come down". I would agree you would see declines, but I'd guesstimate maybe 15% at the most.
15% would still be a significant help to Many families in this country. Remember, the middle class is disappearing and the poor class is getting bigger according to many democrats. If you could save 15% off your energy costs..how much would you save a month? Which other markets would that boost to increase job creation?
I think drilling Now would also reduce the cost immediately due to the speculators not buying in as much as the commodity would be more readily available.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
If they opened drilling off the east and west coasts I'd be willing to put money on a better than 20 percent drop within a year. There is a WHOLE lot of oil off Califoricate that hasn't been tapped. They haven't allowed new drilling there in like 40 years. With the new technology there is no telling how much they could tap into there.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384315
There is your circular logic coming out again. You claim to have concerns about drilling and its effects on the environment, then When faced with the greater environmental damage created by unregulated countries drilling, you say "I don't care I don't live there.". See you don't really care about the environment...you are content for other countries to drill and ruin the environment far more than if we did the drilling. I have NEVER said put a rig anywhere there is oil......there you go again making ASSumptions again. I don't even care if the price of oil stays the same even if we were to drill...however the advantages to the increased GDP and tax revenue collected on a single oil venture might just help get us out of this deficit mess we are...and then you could KEEP your Obama care as we could actually afford it.
Let me ask you this, would you accept government funded healthcare if it was funded by oil drilling and exploration?
If you haven't seen the latest Obama controversy, the Democrats have been trying to reverse all those TAX BREAKS that the Big 5 oil companies have been getting for the last decade or so. So where are these "tax revenues" going to come from if the oil companies keep getting these tax incentives?
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384327
15% would still be a significant help to Many families in this country. Remember, the middle class is disappearing and the poor class is getting bigger according to many democrats. If you could save 15% off your energy costs..how much would you save a month? Which other markets would that boost to increase job creation?
I think drilling Now would also reduce the cost immediately due to the speculators not buying in as much as the commodity would be more readily available.
But if the Republicans get their way, and make these "47% of American Dead Beats that pay no taxes" have to pay their "fair share", that 15% increase in savings on gas will be just a wash when their taxes go up 15%.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384468
If you haven't seen the latest Obama controversy, the Democrats have been trying to reverse all those TAX BREAKS that the Big 5 oil companies have been getting for the last decade or so. So where are these "tax revenues" going to come from if the oil companies keep getting these tax incentives?
The only incentive I have found that is directly targeted to the oil companies is the way they are allowed to depreciate a well. The other breaks they are talking about taking away are given to every other industry. Why shouldn't oil and gas get them too?
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384473
The only incentive I have found that is directly targeted to the oil companies is the way they are allowed to depreciate a well. The other breaks they are talking about taking away are given to every other industry. Why shouldn't oil and gas get them too?
Oil companies get a 6 percent deduction in net income for domestic production.
oil and gas companies have been allowed to take immediate deductions for costs associated with exploring for oil.
oil companies have been allowed to deduct the tax payments they make to other countries.
Oil companies are allowed to deduct a flat percentage of revenues from a well.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384496
Oil companies get a 6 percent deduction in net income for domestic production.
oil and gas companies have been allowed to take immediate deductions for costs associated with exploring for oil.
oil companies have been allowed to deduct the tax payments they make to other countries.
Oil companies are allowed to deduct a flat percentage of revenues from a well.
Oil gets to deduct 6% for domestic production while other companies get to write off 9% of their "manufacturing" costs
Don't all other companies get to write off R&D? How is that different than exploration costs?
Don't all companies get to write off foreign tax payments?
The other break they are looking at taking away is companies are allowed to deduct 15% of non salvagable site preparation costs yearly for the life of the well which seems to me to be the only break where it is a specific break to the oil companies.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Typically companies do not write off foriegn taxes when the other country isn't taxing them.
I'm not adverse to oil companies making a profit but the excuse of "don't other companies do it" does not make it the right thing to do. I actually do not agree with demonizing oil companies for being successful. I don't think any US corp that hires only US citizens should be taxed at all. I'm only answering the question you had of what subsidies they enjoy. You didn't refute that they enjoy the subsidies, you just came back with "well they did it too". That's the typical retort of a liberal, I didn't expect that from you.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384613
Typically companies do not write off foriegn taxes when the other country isn't taxing them.
I'm not adverse to oil companies making a profit but the excuse of "don't other companies do it" does not make it the right thing to do. I actually do not agree with demonizing oil companies for being successful. I don't think any US corp that hires only US citizens should be taxed at all. I'm only answering the question you had of what subsidies they enjoy. You didn't refute that they enjoy the subsidies, you just came back with "well they did it too". That's the typical retort of a liberal, I didn't expect that from you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384473
The only incentive I have found that is directly targeted to the oil companies is the way they are allowed to depreciate a well. The other breaks they are talking about taking away are given to every other industry. Why shouldn't oil and gas get them too?
Maybe you didn't read my post? I aint saying they don't get them, just that they shouldn't be singled out for having them taken away when other industries get the same break. This isn't the time to do it but down the road when the price spike has pulled back some it should be looked at, Just saw a report on Fox about another related issue. Oil companies pay an 18.75% royalty to the government for oil produced on public lands. However gold and silver mines pay no such royalty and the person who has fought to keep them royalty free? Harry Reid........
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I also agree with you about the corporate taxes. Great way to attract business back here and in the long haul increase federal revenues. Income taxes paid by employees tend to be paid at a higher rate than what corporations end up paying.
 
slice

slice

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/385686/obama-opinion/40#post_3384714
I also agree with you about the corporate taxes. Great way to attract business back here and in the long haul increase federal revenues. Income taxes paid by employees tend to be paid at a higher rate than what corporations end up paying.
I understand what you are saying, but others may not.
Be clear that corporations do not pay taxes. Corporations collect taxes.
 
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