Obama supporters. I have one question

stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484456
Lets talk about McCain... he has the scandal he had to do with about favors he gave to lobbiest..
His friend and the former governor of Arizona, Fife Symington, disgraced by removal from office for fraud convictions
Congressman Renzi his Arizona co chairman has been indicted on fraud
Keating 7
among other things in his past
You know that is funny, Keating 5 McCain was exhonerated by a lib prosecutor hired by the democrats who investigated him for 18 months...

Likewise, during research for this article the McCain camp handed the NY times the record of McCains votes compared to the views of this lobbbiest position. And NUMEROUS votes opposite of the interests of the group.
Changing topics agian I see.

I would dare you to address and support some of these accusations you have hurled such as.
"Republicans don't reach out to blacks"
We are smearing Osama Obama by quoting his racist pastor, Ted Kennedy, and other liberal.
But you smear McCain because of the Keating 5, and a thinly sourced story that even your liberal pundents don't take all seriously.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by SigmaChris
http:///forum/post/2484335
Oh BTW Journey, I did re-read the Constitution last night per your suggestion to brush up on legislative procedure. It still amazes me that it took an extra 50 years to allow suffrage to women in 1920 after giving it to black men in 1870.
Don't worry Jim Crow laws passed by DEMOCRATS prevented most black men from voting till they were repealed.
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2484488
Don't worry Jim Crow laws passed by DEMOCRATS prevented most black men from voting till they were repealed.
that is true... most weren't repelled until the 1950's and 1960's... Also things like Poll Tax... intimidation with beatings and murders...the Grandfather Clause... etc.
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2484485
You know that is funny, Keating 5 McCain was exhonerated by a lib prosecutor hired by the democrats who investigated him for 18 months...

Likewise, during research for this article the McCain camp handed the NY times the record of McCains votes compared to the views of this lobbbiest position. And NUMEROUS votes opposite of the interests of the group.
Changing topics agian I see.

I would dare you to address and support some of these accusations you have hurled such as.
"Republicans don't reach out to blacks"
We are smearing Osama Obama by quoting his racist pastor, Ted Kennedy, and other liberal.
But you smear McCain because of the Keating 5, and a thinly sourced story that even your liberal pundents don't take all seriously.
This is not a smear... I can list some other interesting things about McCain... These are investigations by federal authorities and not personal attacks.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484456
Lets talk about McCain... he has the scandal he had to do with about favors he gave to lobbiest..
His friend and the former governor of Arizona, Fife Symington, disgraced by removal from office for fraud convictions
Congressman Renzi his Arizona co chairman has been indicted on fraud
Keating 7
among other things in his past
Again your position is hypocritical.
You posted, point blank, that you hope Obama goes back on his word and doesn't honor his pledge regarding campaign finance, yet now you're trying to say McCain is guilty of taking money from a lobbyist with absolutely no proof? Nice...
You want to convict McCain due to his "friends"? Let's talk about Obama's friend Tony Rezko. While there is no proof McCain did anything wrong, there certainly is proof Obama made money off of shady dealings with this guy, whose been indicted.
"Obama, who has worked as a lawyer and a legislator to improve living conditions for the poor, took campaign donations from Rezko even as Rezko's low-income housing empire was collapsing, leaving many African-American families in buildings riddled with problems -- including squalid living conditions, vacant apartments, lack of heat, squatters and drug dealers." (http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/3...-rez23.article) Or let's talk about Obama's corrupt and racist pastor. Trust me Rylan, you don't want to start trying to convict McCain on guilt by association, unless you want to drop Obama first.
Keating 7? Umm, you mean Keating 5? Here is what the Congressional Oversight Committee concluded: "Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate; therefore, the Committee concludes that no further action is warranted with respect to Senator McCain on the matters investigated during the preliminary inquiry."
Got to do better than that Rylan.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484480
what is is 136 out of over 4000 votes...amounts to a very low % of only about 3%...
What the heck are you talking about? 136 "Present" votes? Sure, that is a fairly low percentage. Now let's look at what he passed up on voting on:
*Obama voted "present" on two bills (HB 382 and SB 230) that would have prohibited a procedure often referred to as partial birth abortion
*SB 71, which lowered the first offense of carrying a concealed weapon from a felony to a misdemeanor and raised the penalty of subsequent offenses.
*In 1999, Obama voted "present" on SB 759, a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds (The bill passed the state Senate 52-1.)
*Also in 1999, Obama voted "present" on HB 854 that protected the privacy of ----abuse victims by allowing petitions to have the trial records sealed. He was the only member to not support the bill.
*In 2001, Obama voted "present" on two parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562), and he voted "present" on a series of bills (SB 1093, 1094, 1095) that sought to protect a child if it survived a failed abortion
*And finally in 2001, Obama voted "present" on SB 609, a bill prohibiting strip clubs and other adult establishments from being within 1,000 feet of schools, churches, and daycares.
And so on... He wasn't skipping the little bills Rylan.
Great, upstanding guy there. He doesn't have an opinion on partial birth abortion, saving the life of a child born in a botched partial birth abortion or teens having to tell their parents about an abortion? He doesn't have an opinion on strip clubs next to schools? No opinion on punishing criminals for gun offenses? No opinion on protecting ----crime victims from having their court testimonies open for anyone to read?
Yup, great upstanding guy there.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484509
that is true... most weren't repelled until the 1950's and 1960's... Also things like Poll Tax... intimidation with beatings and murders...the Grandfather Clause... etc.
Repealed through the work of Republicans, not Democrats, btw.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484515
This is not a smear... I can list some other interesting things about McCain... These are investigations by federal authorities and not personal attacks.
Not true Rylan.
He was found innocent by federal authorities reagrding Keating, and THERE IS NO investigation that I am aware of concerning the NYTimes article. So yes, by bringing it up and saying "there are investigations by federal authorities" which is a lie you are in fact smearing him.
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2484517
Again your position is hypocritical.
You posted, point blank, that you hope Obama goes back on his word and doesn't honor his pledge regarding campaign finance, yet now you're trying to say McCain is guilty of taking money from a lobbyist with absolutely no proof? Nice...
You want to convict McCain due to his "friends"? Let's talk about Obama's friend Tony Rezko. While there is no proof McCain did anything wrong, there certainly is proof Obama made money off of shady dealings with this guy, whose been indicted.
"Obama, who has worked as a lawyer and a legislator to improve living conditions for the poor, took campaign donations from Rezko even as Rezko's low-income housing empire was collapsing, leaving many African-American families in buildings riddled with problems -- including squalid living conditions, vacant apartments, lack of heat, squatters and drug dealers." (http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/3...-rez23.article) Or let's talk about Obama's corrupt and racist pastor. Trust me Rylan, you don't want to start trying to convict McCain on guilt by association, unless you want to drop Obama first.
Keating 7? Umm, you mean Keating 5? Here is what the Congressional Oversight Committee concluded: "Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate; therefore, the Committee concludes that no further action is warranted with respect to Senator McCain on the matters investigated during the preliminary inquiry."
Got to do better than that Rylan.
We can talk about Rezko... He actually donated to many democratic organizations and the party itself. There is even a picture with him and Pres Bill and Hillary Clinton... Now I can take understand your view of his pastor being racist, even though I disagree with it... but corrupt? NO... As far as the charge Obama represented him when he was a working with a law firm.... He was an associate lawyer on the case and was not the lead atty... and he says he worked like 4 hours on some documents for him which basically that was his job...
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2484543
Rylan, I'm still waiting for you to explain how McCain's and Obama's voting records are so similar, btw.

you mentioned McCain no show votes where 16% or something and Obama's were 17%.
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2484533
What the heck are you talking about? 136 "Present" votes? Sure, that is a fairly low percentage. Now let's look at what he passed up on voting on:
*Obama voted "present" on two bills (HB 382 and SB 230) that would have prohibited a procedure often referred to as partial birth abortion
*SB 71, which lowered the first offense of carrying a concealed weapon from a felony to a misdemeanor and raised the penalty of subsequent offenses.
*In 1999, Obama voted "present" on SB 759, a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds (The bill passed the state Senate 52-1.)
*Also in 1999, Obama voted "present" on HB 854 that protected the privacy of ----abuse victims by allowing petitions to have the trial records sealed. He was the only member to not support the bill.
*In 2001, Obama voted "present" on two parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562), and he voted "present" on a series of bills (SB 1093, 1094, 1095) that sought to protect a child if it survived a failed abortion
*And finally in 2001, Obama voted "present" on SB 609, a bill prohibiting strip clubs and other adult establishments from being within 1,000 feet of schools, churches, and daycares.
And so on... He wasn't skipping the little bills Rylan.
Great, upstanding guy there. He doesn't have an opinion on partial birth abortion, saving the life of a child born in a botched partial birth abortion or teens having to tell their parents about an abortion? He doesn't have an opinion on strip clubs next to schools? No opinion on punishing criminals for gun offenses? No opinion on protecting ----crime victims from having their court testimonies open for anyone to read?
Yup, great upstanding guy there.
I think you have to look into it more...to understand why he voted present... I don't have all the info... but a posted occurances of the 136 votes ,where 75% of them were democratic strategies.
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
McCain has forgotten his own history of involvement with betrayal, deceit and corruption
When McCain returned to the United States in 1973 after more than five years as a prisoner of war, he found his wife was a different person. Carol McCain, once a model, had been badly injured in a car wreck in 1969. The accident "left her 4 inches shorter and on crutches, and she gained a good deal of weight." Despite her injures, she had refused to allow her POW husband to be notified about her condition, fearing that such news would not be good for him while he was being held prisoner.
But, just a couple years later, McCain, while pondering a future in politics, met Cindy Hensley, an attractive 25-year-old woman from a very wealthy politically-connected Arizona family. While still married to Carol, McCain began an adulterous relationship with Cindy. He married Cindy in May 1980 -- just a month after dumping his crippled wife and securing a divorce.
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
The Phoenix Gazette, August 25, 1994 -- "Cindy McCain was investigated recently by the Drug Enforcement Administration for stealing and using Percocet and Vicodin, both narcotic painkillers from her aid organization . . . the county attorney's report provides a window to drug dealings within Cindy McCain's nonprofit corporation . . . Gosinski also alleged that Cindy McCain abused her husband's office and diplomatic privileges by transporting illegal substances overseas. He also claimed, according to her lawyers, that Cindy McCain tried to prevent him from providing accurate information to the DEA."
Playboy, July 1999. -- "Ms. McCain admitted stealing Percocet and Vicodin from the American Voluntary Medical Team, an organization that aids Third World countries. Percocet and Vicodin are schedule 2 drugs, in the same legal category as opium. Each pill theft carries a penalty of one year in prison and a monetary fine." However, McCain did not face prosecution. She was allowed to enter a pretrial diversion program and escaped with no blemish to her record. Source: James Bovard, Prison Sentences of the Politically Connected.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484548
We can talk about Rezko... He actually donated to many democratic organizations and the party itself. There is even a picture with him and Pres Bill and Hillary Clinton... Now I can take understand your view of his pastor being racist, even though I disagree with it... but corrupt? NO... As far as the charge Obama represented him when he was a working with a law firm.... He was an associate lawyer on the case and was not the lead atty... and he says he worked like 4 hours on some documents for him which basically that was his job...
Rylan, as a Christian you know what the Bible teaches. If you can listen to that man preach a sermon and not tell me he's corrupt (in the worst sort of way) you and I have different Bibles. Moving on...
Rezko; it's more than just donating.
"In June 2005, Obama and Rezko purchased adjoining parcels in Kenwood. The state's junior senator paid $1.65 million for a Georgian revival mansion, while Rezko paid $625,000 for the adjacent, undeveloped lot. Both closed on their properties on the same day. Last January, aiming to increase the size of his sideyard, Obama paid Rezko $104,500 for a strip of his land. The transaction occurred at a time when it was widely known Tony Rezko was under investigation by U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald and as other Illinois politicians befriended by Rezko distanced themselves from him. In the Sun-Times interview, Obama acknowledged approaching Rezko about the two properties being up for sale and that Rezko developed an immediate interest. Obama did not explain why he reached out to Rezko given the developer's growing problems...." http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...bama05.article
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
McCain's Crime family connection
The Arizona Republic Jan. 17, 1995 "About 300 guests turned out Saturday night to celebrate the 90th birthday of Joseph 'Joe Bananas' Bonanno, retired boss of New York's Bonanno crime family. He retired to Tucson in 1968 . . . John McCain, R-Ariz., and Gov. Fife Symington sent their regards by telegram."
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
The Arizona Republic - October 17, 1989" . . . both in telephone conversations with reporters and on a live radio talk show, the Republican senator was far from calm. He was agitated. Angry. And the way he dealt with unpleasant questions was to bully the questioners . . . 'You're a liar,' McCain snapped Sept. 29 when an Arizona Republic reporter asked him about business ties between his wife, Cindy McCain, and Keating . . . 'That's the spouse's involvement, you idiot,' McCain sneered later in the same conversation. 'You do understand English, don't you?' ". . . Not content with just bullying reporters, McCain tried belittling them: 'It's up to you to find that out, kids.' . . . McCain wasn't talking to liars. He wasn't talking to juveniles. The senator was talking to two reporters."
The Arizona Republic - October 17, 1989 -- "McCain, in a radio talk-show appearance last week condemned disclosures of his family's ties to Keating as 'irresponsible journalism.'"
The Phoenix Gazette, November 13, 1989 -- "Reporters also 'discovered' that the senator's wife and father-in-law invested $359,100.00 in one of Mr. Keating's projects in 1986 . . ."
The Arizona Republic, April 29, 1990 -- "McCain's involvement with Keating . . . when reporters called him with questions last year about previously unknown ties to Keating, an investment by wife Cindy McCain in a Keating shopping center and trips to Keating's Bahamas home, McCain went into a rage."
New Republic, Dec. 31, 1990--"The only Republican of the bunch [the five Senators], John McCain of Arizona wins credit for finally drawing the line. After the second of the two April meetings [with Federal regulators] he told Mr. [Sen. Dennis] DeConcini [D-Ariz.] and Mr. Keating that he wouldn't lean on the regulators any more. Mr. Keating called him a wimp. But before the rupture, Mr. McCain and his family were regular guests of Mr. Keating's on trips to the Bahamas. Mr. McCain reimbursed the owner of Lincoln Savings and Loan for only a small fraction of the cost of these holidays. Yet, he never reported the vacations on Senate disclosure forms, or his income taxes. He said he thought his wife had paid Mr. Keating back. This is hard to believe."
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Here are a few lowlights of Omas "Moderate" voting record
Voted agains a bill that would have made it a crime for an adult other than a parent or guardian to take a minor across state lines to avoid parental notification laws for abortions.
Voted to raise numerous taxes but voted against charging higher income medicare recipients more for prescription drug coverage
Voted against a bill that would speed up the permitting process for oil refineries.
Voted to require a Global warming assessment study be done on all water projects
Voted to remove the secret ballot provisions required for a union to be voted into a campany.
Voted against a bill to allow law enforcement officers to question people about their immigration status
Voted against a bill to end a program allowing illegal immigrants to become legal
Voted to make temorary guest workers elligable for earned income credit (Federal welfare program that pays low income people for working)
Voted against putting more emphysis on job skills than family ties regarding immigration visas
Voted against a bill that would have required illegal immigrants to leave the country before applying for a Visa.
Voted to give the parents of immigrants Visas
Voted to allow illegal immigrants who attend college or join the military to become citizens
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484557
I think you have to look into it more...to understand why he voted present... I don't have all the info... but a posted occurances of the 136 votes ,where 75% of them were democratic strategies.
An examination of Illinois records shows at least 36 times when Mr. Obama was either the only state senator to vote present or was part of a group of six or fewer to vote that way.
In more than 50 votes, he seemed to be acting in concert with other Democrats as part of a strategy. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us...s/20obama.html
Sorry Rylan, that doesn't add up to 75%. I think you have to look into it more.
 
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