Obama supporters. I have one question

[fats71]

The guy is a hate monger whom is a wolf in sheeps clothing. He will do the dance walk the walk talk the talk andd then when he gets into a place of true power were screwed... His true colors will shine thru. atleast with mcain we know he is mostly democrat and what to expect but with huckabee as VP we can keep most of that in check I hope.
Obama is just plain and simple not the man to run our country and DONT GET ME STARTED ON Hilary...
She wants to tax each and every indavidual round of ammo. for a guy like me who runs a few thousand rounds of the ol' crappy wolf ammo as its so much easier than making them myself it would kill my main hobby...
For the love of GOD people vote "R" if u all know what is good for the country this election...

 

[stdreb27]

lol, wow that is some trash piling on obama.

 

[reefraff]

After reading those excerts from Obamas book and then considering the mission statement of the church he belongs too. This is going to be an interesting general election.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2483208
You realize what you quoted backs up my point and directly contradicts your original point, right?
A "present" vote is a waffle vote. You don't vote for or against. It doesn't count either way...
"To register a vote in the Illinois General Assembly, lawmakers have a choice of three buttons on their desk. The "yes" button is green. The "no" button is red, and the "present" button is yellow, says Rich Miller, who writes and publishes The Capitol Fax, a daily newsletter and blog on Illinois politics. "There's a saying in Springfield that there's a reason why the present button is yellow," Miller says. " ...(taken from NPR... the bastion of liberal radio) The article continues: "Pam Sutherland is the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council. She says Obama voted "present" at least seven times to provide cover to other abortion-rights supporters on such bills as the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act." "Senators didn't want to vote pro-choice anymore, because they knew these were being used against them in their campaigns," Sutherland said."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=18348437
This shows your clear misunderstanding of the facts... Both Dems and GOP from Illinois backed Obama and the reasons why present votes are good politics and neccessary. Stop trying to skew the facts... I doesn't matter what your newsletter is saying... my info I posted in unbiased and comes directly from Illinois lawmakers from both parties. I wonder how many articles you passed on or overlooked to find something that supports your view. I found many.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484100
This shows your clear misunderstanding of the facts... Both Dems and GOP from Illinois backed Obama and the reasons why present votes are good politics and neccessary. Stop trying to skew the facts... I doesn't matter what your newsletter is saying... my info I posted in unbiased and comes directly from Illinois lawmakers from both parties. I wonder how many articles you passed on or overlooked to find something that supports your view. I found many.
LOL, my article is from NPR. A more liberal source you will not find.
Your very own "info" contradicted what you were saying, as I clearly pointed out.
Rylan, you do not understand the facts. A "Present" vote is not a "yes" vote. It does not count as a "yes" vote. Nowhere in the info you posted does it say it is a "yes" vote.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by SigmaChris
http:///forum/post/2483006
So what is a present vote? A vote for yes or no? Sounds like a no vote, since a vote needs "X" amount of yes' to be approved.
Its technically is a no vote with a reason... the Illinois Senate is different... I think my article explains it pretty well... For example lets take this new bill with this Emergency Tax Rebate...
The overall bill is good and address the concerns of most americans and gives them a rebate, ok... however it left out say senior citizens who also need help...
Dems said seniors needed to be included and they would support the bill if they were...
In the US Senate you can vote either yes or no... So a no vote would be appropriate if you had the Dems view, not because you didn't like the bill, but because it was missing one detail and you can't change it once it passes.
In the Illinois Senate you could vote Present... because you liked the bill, but just wanted this one thing added. A no would suggest you didn't like it..

 

[1journeyman]

Here are some more sources for you Rylan. Take your pick:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ent_obama.html
"Because it takes affirmative votes to pass legislation in the Illinois Senate, a "present" vote is tantamount to a "no" vote. A "present" vote is generally used to provide political cover for legislators who don't want to be on the record against a bill that they oppose"
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpoi...sconsin_hi.php
A last minute mailer dropped in Wisconsin by the Hillary campaign hits Obama on the "present" votes. Key line: "Illinois state legislators can vote `present.' But a president has to make the toughest `yes' or `no' decisions in the world."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us...s/20obama.html
You seemed to be willing to believe what the NYTimes said about McCain. Let's see if you are willing to believe what they say about Obama:
In 1999, Barack Obama was faced with a difficult vote in the Illinois legislature — to support a bill that would let some juveniles be tried as adults, a position that risked drawing fire from African-Americans, or to oppose it, possibly undermining his image as a tough-on-crime moderate. In the end, Mr. Obama chose neither to vote for nor against the bill. He voted “present,” effectively sidestepping the issue, an option he invoked nearly 130 times as a state senator."

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484119
Its technically is a no vote with a reason... the Illinois Senate is different... I think my article explains it pretty well... For example lets take this new bill with this Emergency Tax Rebate...
The overall bill is good and address the concerns of most americans and gives them a rebate, ok... however it left out say senior citizens who also need help...
Dems said seniors needed to be included and they would support the bill if they were...
In the US Senate you can vote either yes or no... So a no vote would be appropriate if you had the Dems view, not because you didn't like the bill, but because it was missing one detail and you can't change it once it passes.
In the Illinois Senate you could vote Present... because you liked the bill, but just wanted this one thing added. A no would suggest you didn't like it..
RYLAN, you need to LEARN what you are discussing. You can abstain from voting in the US Senate too. It's called "Not Voting". Look at Obama's Senate voting record and you'll see this many times as well.
Sorry to tell you, but the state of Il. is not the only place to offer neutrality to politicians when it comes time to count the votes...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2483479
Ok, here is my point... He listens to the american gangsta cd... have you listened to it ?? I went and did wow if he likes it and says "I really like the american gangsta by JZ thats saying I like american gangsta rap by JZ how is that mis-interpeting ?
Anyway, any clown that publicly states he thinks something is "tight" needs to be jack smacked IMHO its ignorance at its best. Would'nt it be great if he became pres and was walking behinfd the podeum to give his address and uses some sweet eubonics I think its great and im all about the kids voting when they turn to the legal age and voting beause they like a guy cuz he's down with JZ dog.
I personally want a man in office with who has never stated he hated whitey was not brought up a muslim extremist as his biological father was and his step father and doesnt belong to the what church does he attend ? oh ya the one where they dont like the "THE MAN"
I am in no way racist as my wife is of color and she thinks they guy is a complete knob...
He is a clown period.
I am not the most well written eprson probably typos and grammer is off but as a person who follows politics I am someone who knows a complete jerk wad when I see one...
I dislike Mcain tbh I think he is a democrat in sheeps clothing but of the choices we have he is the best one unless Huckabee can all the sudden pull out a miracle.
first of all "tight" and "dog" are not ebonics. They are modern slang.. such as cool, narley, awesome, stoked, or whatever.. Obama has never said any of the things you mentioned .. and just because your wife has more melanoma in her skin doesn't make you unbiased... It seems to me that you are not informed when it comes to music and Obama's record... his father was not an extremist... he was actually not really even muslim... he by all accounts didn't worship any god later in his life..If you don't like him...for whatever reason is fine..but don't misrepresent the man..Further more he is Harvard educated and is probably much more intelligent than any of us... He is quoted as the "eloquent" speaker so I wouldn't worry about him walking behind the podium and using inappropriate language.
I have the album, and most of Jay-Z's albums...if you don't have an appreciation for the music.. than thats fine... his taste, mine... don't have to match yours. Hip/Hop Rap is the most popular and bought music in the world so your dislike of it would make you the minority in your tastes.

 

[1journeyman]

Rylan, Rylan, Rylan. You're not even trying anymore. Are you just posting false info in the hopes I get tired of pointing out your mistakes?
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484175
.. Obama has never said any of the things you mentioned .. ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFSVG...eature=related
Obama:" This New American Gansta album, It's tight".
First 15 seconds of the interivew...
So, yes, he has in fact said the things mentioned you deny he said.
Not that I really care what music he listens too, although I think it does show a weakness in his character. The point is, he said the things you say he didn't.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2484127
Here are some more sources for you Rylan. Take your pick:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ent_obama.html
"Because it takes affirmative votes to pass legislation in the Illinois Senate, a "present" vote is tantamount to a "no" vote. A "present" vote is generally used to provide political cover for legislators who don't want to be on the record against a bill that they oppose"
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpoi...sconsin_hi.php
A last minute mailer dropped in Wisconsin by the Hillary campaign hits Obama on the "present" votes. Key line: "Illinois state legislators can vote `present.' But a president has to make the toughest `yes' or `no' decisions in the world."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us...s/20obama.html
You seemed to be willing to believe what the NYTimes said about McCain. Let's see if you are willing to believe what they say about Obama:
In 1999, Barack Obama was faced with a difficult vote in the Illinois legislature — to support a bill that would let some juveniles be tried as adults, a position that risked drawing fire from African-Americans, or to oppose it, possibly undermining his image as a tough-on-crime moderate. In the end, Mr. Obama chose neither to vote for nor against the bill. He voted “present,” effectively sidestepping the issue, an option he invoked nearly 130 times as a state senator."
These in part may very well be true; however, you are giving 1/2 truths. A present vote may be side stepping an issue, but it also can mean other things as I posted... It can be a cover, or it could be a concern..
I'd be curious to know how many of these bills went back before the Senate and he voted yes or no for...
As stated in my article ... many people try to use the "present vote" as a political tool, and those people are usually misinformed... If you are going tp present these views... I think it is only fair to expess them accurately and completely...
An examination of Illinois records shows at least 36 times when Obama was either the only state senator to vote present or was part of a group of six or fewer to vote that way.
In more than 50 votes, he seemed to be acting in concert with other Democrats as part of a strategy.
In at least 45 instances, Obama voted with large numbers of fellow Democrats as part of the tactical skirmishing with Republicans over the budget.
Seven other times, he voted that way as part of a broad strategy devised by abortion rights advocates to counter anti-abortion bills.

 

[stdreb27]

What this "present" vote is, is simply a non-decision. Sure you could vote for the Osama Obama stated reasons. Same old politics. You could vote because you want to hedge your political position. Same old politics. There are numerous reason to vote "nothing". And they are ALL the same old political game.
Change my butt.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2484212
Rylan, Rylan, Rylan. You're not even trying anymore. Are you just posting false info in the hopes I get tired of pointing out your mistakes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFSVG...eature=related
Obama:" This New American Gansta album, It's tight".
First 15 seconds of the interivew...
So, yes, he has in fact said the things mentioned you deny he said.
Not that I really care what music he listens too, although I think it does show a weakness in his character. The point is, he said the things you say he didn't.

I sm not talking about the interview... I actually saw it a long time ago.. I am refering to the "whitey remark and his father being a extremist"

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484222
These in part may very well be true; however, you are giving 1/2 truths. A present vote may be side stepping an issue, but it also can mean other things as I posted... It can be a cover, or it could be a concern..
I'd be curious to know how many of these bills went back before the Senate and he voted yes or no for...
As stated in my article ... many people try to use the "present vote" as a political tool, and those people are usually misinformed... If you are going tp present these views... I think it is only fair to expess them accurately and completely...
An examination of Illinois records shows at least 36 times when Obama was either the only state senator to vote present or was part of a group of six or fewer to vote that way.
In more than 50 votes, he seemed to be acting in concert with other Democrats as part of a strategy.
In at least 45 instances, Obama voted with large numbers of fellow Democrats as part of the tactical skirmishing with Republicans over the budget.
Seven other times, he voted that way as part of a broad strategy devised by abortion rights advocates to counter anti-abortion bills.
sounds like the same old politics to me.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2484227
What this "present" vote is, is simply a non-decision. Sure you could vote for the Osama Obama stated reasons. Same old politics. You could vote because you want to hedge your political position. Same old politics. There are numerous reason to vote "nothing". And they are ALL the same old political game.
Change my butt.
Its more than that... its politics and its clear that all you all are trying to do is smear the man... "Osama"? " "eubonics" (ebonics) etc... can you all grow up a little.. I don't think its neccessary ..
I think my points speak for themselves... regardless of your spin.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2482533
...Senate of Illinois has a different structure than US Senate.. a vote for present is a vote for yes, except there needs to be some slight changes for a full vote of yes.....

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484222
These in part may very well be true; however, you are giving 1/2 truths. A present vote may be side stepping an issue, but it also can mean other things as I posted... .
Well at least, and possibly for the first time, you sort of admitted you were wrong.
It's my opinion that Obama votes "Present" and "Not Voting" to dodge being on the record. It's fact that The Il. Senate is not unique in this as you said. It's also fact that a "Present" vote is not a "vote for yes" as you originally tried to argue.
just don't try to spin this. You started off arguing that a "Present" vote was a "vote for yes, except there needs to be some changes".

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484230

I sm not talking about the interview... I actually saw it a long time ago.. I am refering to the "whitey remark and his father being a extremist"
If you are talking about a specific statement among many quoted don't say
Originally Posted by Rylan
Obama has never said any of the things you mentioned...

 

[sigmachris]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2484212
Rylan, Rylan, Rylan. You're not even trying anymore. Are you just posting false info in the hopes I get tired of pointing out your mistakes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFSVG...eature=related
Obama:" This New American Gansta album, It's tight".
First 15 seconds of the interivew...
So, yes, he has in fact said the things mentioned you deny he said.
Not that I really care what music he listens too, although I think it does show a weakness in his character. The point is, he said the things you say he didn't.
Journey you are off here...Rylan was disputing (like I was) what Fats71 originally posted that Obama likes Gangster Rap. Fats was confusing an album title with a genre of music. He wasn't denying that Obama didn't use a slang word.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2484234
Its more than that... its politics and its clear that all you all are trying to do is smear the man... "Osama"? " "eubonics" (ebonics) etc... can you all grow up a little.. I don't think its neccessary ..
I think my points speak for themselves... regardless of your spin.
Rylan, we're not smearing anyone and your points do speak for themselves. They just don't say what you think they say...
If we were mis-representing the facts or making them up (NYTimes) that would be smear. Showing that Obama has an amazingly high "Present" voting tendency is not smearing. It's posting the truth.
I'm all for everyone "growing up". That includes the way you post Rylan. You frequently post completely fictional information and try to make us believe it is true.
Your points do speak for themselves. The lack of any truth behind so many of them convinces me more than ever that Obama's entire candidacy is a sham. If you're posting the best arguments for Obama the left wing blogs can come up with God help us all.
I've repeatedly tried to have "grown up" conversations with you Rylan. In good faith I ALWAYS post my sources, use multiple sources, and usually use liberal sources so as to remove any doubt as to the writer's bias.
A Grown up debate is healthy and worthwhile. This continual "hit and run" nonsense has to go, however. Research your topics from credible sources, then post and let's discuss them.
You're a smart guy Rylan, but you don't appear to be thinking for yourself. This last round of "A present vote is a yes vote" was just silly.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by SigmaChris
http:///forum/post/2484249
Journey you are off here...Rylan was disputing (like I was) what Fats71 originally posted that Obama likes Gangster Rap. Fats was confusing an album title with a genre of music. He wasn't denying that Obama didn't use a slang word.
See my post immediately above yours. Rylan said "Obama has never said any of the things you mentioned" and had a quote listed. I showed the link where Obama did say some of those things.
Like I said in my post above yours, it's not a big deal to me, except that you can't make a blanket statement like "any of the things" when in fact he did say some of them.