Obama supporters. I have one question

rylan1

Active Member

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2482702
Wow.. once again a thread full of false statements.
huh? Explain this one please. Obama has voted with the Democrats 96% of his career votes. McCain has voted with the Republican party 88% of the time. Please explain to me the difference of 10 votes.

percentage wise -- 1% difference is not a big difference amounts to 10 votes.

I agree with you on abortion. It should be a State's Rights issue. Guess which party has made it a Federal one?
Taxes do not need to be raised. Spending needs to be cut. Pelosi said if she was Speaker of the House pork barrel projects and earmarks would be abolished. Still waiting...
Higher taxes hurt everyone. The higher you tax, the less jobs that are created. Ever been given a good paying job by a poor person Rylan?
I agree with tax cuts, but not to the rich as they are now

Well then educate yourself and we'll discuss it more fully. I've tried repeatedly to provide information for you and you always fail to read or look for it yourself. MILIIONS died in SE Asia. The genocide in Asia was our fault. The genocide in Africa is the Africans faults. There lies the difference. To try to blame all of the issues in Africa on Islamic Extremists is absurd. Africa's been a mess since long before Muhammed ever walked the desert.
I disagree... who's ever fault it is it doesn't matter... was Kosovo our fault... no... They say they regret Rwanda, but do nothing here...last point...Darfur genocide is by the muslims in that area killling the other people.

That's a dumb point. Obama is for higher taxes and you seem to think he is electable. McCain is listening to his party. That's a good thing...
Question is does he really believe in what he is doing or is his listening to his party to just get their support? Because the last election it didn't work for him

I think he's off on this one, but then again so are Hillary and Obama. At least McCain has shown as he runs for office he's willing to listen to our concerns... Regardless, as Obama's policy is certainly no better and he is certainly far less experienced It's a wash.
LOL, that's funny. Guess what, I've been dscussing his time in the US Senate. NOT the Il. Senate. That said, you're full of it. A vote of "present" in the Il. Senate does NOT mean "yes". It means he didn't want to vote on record...
Do you know what FISA stands for Rylan?
FOREIGN Intelligence Surveillance Act. Since when did the Constitution apply to NON US CITIZENS? How can a bill that doesn't apply to Americans be Unconstitutional?
Just becaue you are not american doesn't mean you don't have the same rights..You can be a documented worker or whatever... as long as you are here legally you should have the same rights expect maybe to vote... for illegals... I think most rights should apply with the exception of a few.

Please explain the Bill as you understand it and how it is Unconstitutional. Please site specifically what section of the Constitution applies.
My comments are bold
 

rylan1

Active Member
The two main rivals of Illinois’ U.S. Sen. Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination accused him during a debate Monday (Jan. 21) of ducking important votes by voting “present” about 130 times during his eight years in the Illinois Senate.
But Obama’s former colleagues who still serve in the Illinois Capitol say that the attacks are off-base and that either Obama’s opponents don’t understand how things work in Springfield or they are deliberately distorting his record.
“To insinuate the ‘present’ vote means you’re indecisive, that you don’t have the courage to hold public office, that’s a stretch. But, it’s good politics,” said state Rep. Bill Black (R), a 22-year veteran of the House and his party’s floor leader.

In fact, he said, Illinois legislators get attacked for their “present” votes nearly every campaign season. “It’s always been a campaign gimmick, really. If you vote ‘present’ once in 23 years, somebody will bring it up.”
The “present” vote in Illinois is sometimes cast by state lawmakers with a conflict of interest who would rather not weigh in on an issue. Other times, members use the option to object to certain parts of a bill, even though they may agree with its overall purpose.
“The ‘present’ vote is used, especially by more thoughtful legislators, not as a means of avoiding taking a position on an issue, but as a means of signaling concerns about an issue,” said state Rep. John Fritchey (D), an Obama supporter.

The Land of Lincoln isn’t the only state where lawmakers can register their displeasure without actually voting against a bill.
State Sen. John Cullerton (D) calls the “present” vote “a no vote with an explanation.” Legally, there’s not much difference between the two votes, but practically, it can let the sponsors or other legislators know of problems with the bill that should be corrected.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2482866
I love how he in one sentence says how he LOVES the album "american gangsta"
then when he realizes what he just said made it into something completely different...
He thinks they use the "N" word alittle too much weell honestly a a hillbilly redneck I think they should not use it at all alittle different from some of my peers but I think GOD made us all equal imho.
Anyway, some guy that says " it's tight" refering to gangsta rap will never be my choice in a president .
If I say something on the forums to be facts dont doubt me lol.
I'll comment on yours... Are you serious... move into the 21st Century... Obama said he likes some hip hop and jazz... Okay so some of you dislike that music... what does that have to do with anything... Obama is not an old white man... he is going to have different tastes.. American Gangster is a good album... Kanye West is a good artist... Itss popular music... but to vote or not vote for a guy based on his music preference is just as silly as voting for someone because of their race or gender if not more so.
Gangsta rap is not even relevant today... and is something of the 90's... consider it Grundge... Hip Hop is an art and is different from much of the mainstream rap today, which I don't particularly like now myself... beats are good but content is garbage.. I would put the 3 artist he mentioned ..Jay-Z, Kanye, and Outkast in my very liked hip hop category...
 

sigmachris

Active Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2482961

“State Sen. John Cullerton (D) calls the “present” vote “a no vote with an explanation.” Legally, there’s not much difference between the two votes, but practically, it can let the sponsors or other legislators know of problems with the bill that should be corrected..

]

Originally Posted by Rylan1

http:///forum/post/2482533
-
Senate of Illinois has a different structure than US Senate.. a vote for present is a vote for yes, except there needs to be some slight changes for a full vote of yes.
.
So what is a present vote? A vote for yes or no? Sounds like a no vote, since a vote needs "X" amount of yes' to be approved.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
-Taxes need to raised ... look at our defecit... I agree with democrats and they should be rasised on those its not going to affect
Funny thing, tax revenues are up with the Bush tax cuts. It is SPENDING which out paces revenue.
Who exactly will tax hikes not affect? Bill Gates, LeBron James, Steven Speilburg? Possible.
What about the "rich" small business owner, the person who signs your paycheck.
You seem to have fallen for the Liberal class warfare, just like Germany in 1934.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
I agree with tax cuts, but not to the rich as they are now
Have you looked at the tax code?
1 % of the wage earners pay 30 % the tax. the top 40% pay 90%.
That already "gets those rich folks" if you ask me.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2482943
My comments are bold
And they are still wrong.
Rylan, let me explain the voting thing as thoroughly as I can. You keep saying 1% 10 votes, etc. between McCain and Obama.. Where are you getting this?
McCain has voted, in all of his time in office as a US Senator, with the Republican Party 88% of the time. Obama, in his time in the US Senate, has voted with the Democratic party 96% of the time.
Now, I'm sure you realize there have een thousands of votes in the Senate since Obama became a Senator. Typically the Democrats and Republicans vote OPPOSITE. How are you getting they are so similar in voting? That just makes so little sense it makes me question if you really understand what we are talking about.
Taxes- We've pointed this out to you before and you ignored it. The top 5% of the wage earners in this country pay over HALF of the total taxes paid each year in this country. YA, sounds like they need to pay more. How dare the people who pay the most taxes get a tax break.
Rylan, do you know what the tax rate is for the richest people in the USA? Look it up. I'll give you a hint; It's over 30%...
You're all over the map regarding Africa. If we leave Iraq (as Obama has proposed) we will DIRECTLY be responsible for the genocide that will occur there. We aren't responsible for what the Africans are doing to other Africans. If you are worried about what is going on in Africa do something yourself with the number of Relief Organizations that currently are involved there. I've worked with several and will happily send you links to some great organizations if you need...
You think Obama will leave Iraq and "end the war" as all of his commercials in Texas keep promising only to do ANYTHING in Africa? Please (unless of course he follow's his church's teachings of being true to his "native land")...
As usual, you failed to bother to look up anything regarding FISA before you tried to tie it into illegal immigrants... FISA=FOREIGN SURVEILLANCE.. Not "foreigner on our soil" surveillance.
 

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2482533
Senate of Illinois has a different structure than US Senate.. a vote for present is a vote for yes, except there needs to be some slight changes for a full vote of yes.

Originally Posted by Rylan1

http:///forum/post/2482961
“To insinuate the ‘present’ vote means you’re indecisive, that you don’t have the courage to hold public office, that’s a stretch. But, it’s good politics,” said state Rep. Bill Black (R), a 22-year veteran of the House and his party’s floor leader.
The “present” vote in Illinois is sometimes cast by state lawmakers with a conflict of interest who would rather not weigh in on an issue
. Other times, members use the option to object to certain parts of a bill, even though they may agree with its overall purpose.
“The ‘present’ vote is used, especially by more thoughtful legislators, not as a means of avoiding taking a position on an issue, but as a means of signaling concerns about an issue,” said state Rep. John Fritchey (D), an Obama supporter.

The Land of Lincoln isn’t the only state where lawmakers can register their displeasure without actually voting against a bill.
State Sen. John Cullerton (D) calls the “present” vote “a no vote with an explanation.” Legally, there’s not much difference between the two votes, but practically, it can let the sponsors or other legislators know of problems with the bill that should be corrected.

You realize what you quoted backs up my point and directly contradicts your original point, right?
A "present" vote is a waffle vote. You don't vote for or against. It doesn't count either way...
"To register a vote in the Illinois General Assembly, lawmakers have a choice of three buttons on their desk. The "yes" button is green. The "no" button is red, and the "present" button is yellow, says Rich Miller, who writes and publishes The Capitol Fax, a daily newsletter and blog on Illinois politics. "There's a saying in Springfield that there's a reason why the present button is yellow," Miller says. " ...(taken from NPR... the bastion of liberal radio) The article continues: "Pam Sutherland is the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council. She says Obama voted "present" at least seven times to provide cover to other abortion-rights supporters on such bills as the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act." "Senators didn't want to vote pro-choice anymore, because they knew these were being used against them in their campaigns
," Sutherland said."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=18348437
 

sigmachris

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2482623
While watching a interview of him on tv I can not remember who it was with the question was asked,... What music do you listen too and he responded "GANGSTA RAP" i GOTTA KEEP IT REAL
If thats someones choice in music fine but lets face it most of it degrades women, condones beating a hoe robbing sellin crack blah blah blah. I listen to some of the music he said he listened too I was like wow this guy is running for president who would vote for him but I guess some here certainly will..
As for me and my homies were on the republican tip dawg!!!

Originally Posted by Fats71

http:///forum/post/2483181
Um, he certrain says gangsta rap and thheyy are 'tight"
Also here is something else to wrap your head around
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2...8203947AAn1uVu
He does not say gangster rap is tight...He says the American Gangster album is tight. Get it straight, because what you originally posted is wrong and skews the interview in a completely different direction. Is he wrong for using some youthful slang like "tight"? No he is probably trying to reach out to the young voter. Do you see him using the word "tight" on the Senate floor or in debates?
He goes onto to say he likes Hip Hop but not all aspects of it and clearly states it can be degrading. Gangster rap is totally different from Hip Hop as it is much more hard core and degrading.
In fact you can look at many different genres of music and find potential wrong doings depending on what your views are and its time period, from the Beatles to Elvis to Dixie Chicks to Motley Crue. Heck even Jazz was crucified in the 20s and 30s does that make it wrong?
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2482533
-
Senate of Illinois has a different structure than US Senate.. a vote for present is a vote for yes, except there needs to be some slight changes for a full vote of yes.
Nonsense, a present vote is not a yes or no...it is a coward vote. It doesn;'t even rate a maybe vote.
 

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by SigmaChris
http:///forum/post/2483402
He does not say gangster rap is tight...He says the American Gangster album is tight. Get it straight, because what you originally posted is wrong and skews the interview in a completely different direction. Is he wrong for using some youthful slang like "tight"? No he is probably trying to reach out to the young voter. Do you see him using the word "tight" on the Senate floor or in debates?
He goes onto to say he likes Hip Hop but not all aspects of it and clearly states it can be degrading. Gangster rap is totally different from Hip Hop as it is much more hard core and degrading.
In fact you can look at many different genres of music and find potential wrong doings depending on what your views are and its time period, from the Beatles to Elvis to Dixie Chicks to Motley Crue. Heck even Jazz was crucified in the 20s and 30s does that make it wrong?

Ok, here is my point... He listens to the american gangsta cd... have you listened to it ?? I went and did wow if he likes it and says "I really like the american gangsta by JZ thats saying I like american gangsta rap by JZ how is that mis-interpeting ?
Anyway, any clown that publicly states he thinks something is "tight" needs to be jack smacked IMHO its ignorance at its best. Would'nt it be great if he became pres and was walking behinfd the podeum to give his address and uses some sweet eubonics I think its great and im all about the kids voting when they turn to the legal age and voting beause they like a guy cuz he's down with JZ dog.
I personally want a man in office with who has never stated he hated whitey was not brought up a muslim extremist as his biological father was and his step father and doesnt belong to the what church does he attend ? oh ya the one where they dont like the "THE MAN"
I am in no way racist as my wife is of color and she thinks they guy is a complete knob...
He is a clown period.
I am not the most well written eprson probably typos and grammer is off but as a person who follows politics I am someone who knows a complete jerk wad when I see one...
I dislike Mcain tbh I think he is a democrat in sheeps clothing but of the choices we have he is the best one unless Huckabee can all the sudden pull out a miracle.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2482979
Kanye West is a good artist... ...
He might be a good artist but he makes racists remarks and degrades women and biracial folks.
Kanye West Makes Racist Remarks
Kanye West has stirred up another controversy regarding race after making comments about the offspring of racially mixed couples. West made headlines when he declared that President George W. Bush didn't care about black people during a telethon raising funds for Hurricane Katrina victims.
And the singer has caused a stir again in the January issue of Essence magazine by commenting on bi-racial babies. He says, "If it wasn't for race mixing there'd be no video girls. Me and most of our friends like mutts a lot. Yeah, in the hood we call 'em mutts!"
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2483479
I personally want a man in office with who has never stated he hated whitey was not brought up a muslim extremist as his biological father was and his step father and doesnt belong to the what church does he attend ? oh ya the one where they dont like the "THE MAN"
I am in no way racist as my wife is of color and she thinks they guy is a complete knob...
He is a clown period.
I am not the most well written eprson probably typos and grammer is off but as a person who follows politics I am someone who knows a complete jerk wad when I see one...
You have stated something here that I too support. Obama belongs to a church where the leader is a known hater that honored another known hater in Farrakahn.
There is NO place is this country for racism...or anybody that even gives the appearance of supporting it.
You should not be given a "pass" if you are a member of a certain political party..or if you are black red, white, etc or any mixture. Racism is wrong....and a serious presidential candidate should be totally clean on this issue in my opinion.
 

scubadoo

Active Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2482961
The two main rivals of Illinois’ U.S. Sen. Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination accused him during a debate Monday (Jan. 21) of ducking important votes by voting “present” about 130 times during his eight years in the Illinois Senate.
But Obama’s former colleagues who still serve in the Illinois Capitol say that the attacks are off-base and that either Obama’s opponents don’t understand how things work in Springfield or they are deliberately distorting his record.
“To insinuate the ‘present’ vote means you’re indecisive, that you don’t have the courage to hold public office, that’s a stretch. But, it’s good politics,” said state Rep. Bill Black (R), a 22-year veteran of the House and his party’s floor leader.

In fact, he said, Illinois legislators get attacked for their “present” votes nearly every campaign season. “It’s always been a campaign gimmick, really. If you vote ‘present’ once in 23 years, somebody will bring it up.”
The “present” vote in Illinois is sometimes cast by state lawmakers with a conflict of interest who would rather not weigh in on an issue. Other times, members use the option to object to certain parts of a bill, even though they may agree with its overall purpose.
“The ‘present’ vote is used, especially by more thoughtful legislators, not as a means of avoiding taking a position on an issue, but as a means of signaling concerns about an issue,” said state Rep. John Fritchey (D), an Obama supporter.

The Land of Lincoln isn’t the only state where lawmakers can register their displeasure without actually voting against a bill.
State Sen. John Cullerton (D) calls the “present” vote “a no vote with an explanation.” Legally, there’s not much difference between the two votes, but practically, it can let the sponsors or other legislators know of problems with the bill that should be corrected.


1997, Obama voted "present" on two bills (HB 382 and SB 230) that would have prohibited a procedure often referred to as partial birth abortion. He also voted "present" on SB 71, which lowered the first offense of carrying a concealed weapon from a felony to a misdemeanor and raised the penalty of subsequent offenses.
In 1999, Obama voted "present" on SB 759, a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds. The bill passed the state Senate 52-1. Also in 1999, Obama voted "present" on HB 854 that protected the privacy of ----abuse victims by allowing petitions to have the trial records sealed. He was the only member to not support the bill.
In 2001, Obama voted "present" on two parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562), and he voted "present" on a series of bills (SB 1093, 1094, 1095) that sought to protect a child if it survived a failed abortion. In his book, the Audacity of Hope, on page 132, Obama explained his problems with the "born alive" bills, specifically arguing that they would overturn Roe v. Wade. But he failed to mention that he only felt strongly enough to vote "present" on the bills instead of "no."
And finally in 2001, Obama voted "present" on SB 609, a bill prohibiting strip clubs and other adult establishments from being within 1,000 feet of schools, churches, and daycares.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Obamas book....his words....Audacity of Hope (page 130), Obama explained that even as a legislator in the minority, "You must vote yes or no on whatever bill comes up, with the knowledge that it's unlikely to be a compromise that either you or your supporters consider fair and or just."
 

scubadoo

Active Member

"If you are worried about your next election, the present vote gives you political cover," said Kent Redfield, a professor of political studies at the University of Illinois at Springfield. "This is an option that does not exist in every state and reflects Illinois political culture."
 
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