Obama to Seek New Assault Weapons Ban

[wattsupdoc]

So if the constitution is a living document that means that 150 years from now, when our language has changed so much that infringed becomes defined as allowed and bear to mean not possess.......

That's what it being a living document means Tim. That as time changes so do the meanings. This can not be and any one have any hope of remaining free. The constitution must always be interpreted as our founding fathers meant it to be. Their character and life must always be considered when interpreting the document. It is neither alive nor dead, but growing like a family tree. Where the ancestral "roots" are the core. Unshakable unmovable unCHANGEABLE roots. The amendments added later are adaptations or additions to this pedigree, that of course grow with time. These are branches that grow out from the core. They can be trimmed and cut or completely severed if the PEOPLE agree it is correct. But the core cannot, this would mean certain death for the entire tree. And certain death for our freedom.
Now as far as the patriot act, I don't consider it to be unconstitutional.

That's my opinion. I have the right to that IF I did feel it was violating any Americans rights I would not support it. Actually I don't really support it now, as I don't like it very much, but tolerate it. Why do I not feel it is unconstitutional. Because I feel our rights are inclusive to ONLY AMERICAN CITIZENS.....We CAN extend some of these rights to legal non citizens if we CHOOSE to do so. But by no means are we required to do so. If your from Turkey and you kill someone, don't expect to be release withing 24 hrs. of arrest if charges haven't been brought yet. Don't expect a "speedy" trial. Like anybody ever really gets one anyways. Don't expect us to pay for your representation if you cant afford one. AND don't expect your conversations to not be listened in on....WITHOUT WARRENT if need be. Now, do I thin k that we should extend those to non citizens as a courtesy? Most of the time, most those. But am I going to get upset if some illegal alien gets arrested in NY and doesn't ever get a bond? Or speedy trial? Or is not given the right to remain silent? Nope.
As for the scenario of attorney client overseas situation, both parties know very well the conversation is likely to be recorded. It is not like these are taps that are going on and no-one knows about them going on. There are many, many other ways to communicate. Personal contact would be best in delicate situations anyway. Besides, if the guy get sued in America and lives resides in Africa somewhere, how is a civil case ever going to be enforced against them? If they never travel to America? Never have any assets in America. If it's a corporation that operates in America those things will generally be handled here. I might be wrong, but if both parties know the conversation is being recorded, or likely recorded, there is no warrant required. I.E "every thing you say can and will be used against you".......Police can record any conversation you have while in custody without warrant after you have been read your rights.
I'm sorry, I generally don't follow links around.

It's just so time consuming especially when reading a thread like this with soo much to read already to try to keep up. If there's something you want me to read, post the link and take the time to copy the text please.

 

[veni vidi vici]

I just renewed my NRA membership ....to many incredibly short sighted ,ill informed people around for my comfort.

 

[tank a holic]

most anti gun people are afraid of guns because they know nothing about them all they know is that some dude on the news killed 3 people with a gun so therefore they want all guns banned
well you're dumb
if you take my gun the bad guy will get one anyway
if you slit the bad guy's throat on pay per view you'll be rich and at least 10 would be killers will think twice
so which solution do you think is better

punish the criminals not the law abiding citizen

ps nra member also..... yeah that's right go ahead and judge me

 

[ironeagle2006]

Here is my Idea for Capital Punishment if they can prove that the person charged did the crime without a doubt. 1 No appeals for 15 years he or she goes to the head of the line. 2 instead of a soft form like lethal injection I say we use something the arabs do PUBLIC BEHEADINGS. 3 For someone like Osama Bin Laden or Tim Mc Veigh or got off way to light in my own view for OBL strap him to a MK 84 and Drop him from 10K feet onto a hardened concrete target BTW the bomb is a dud with no fuse. For Mc Veigh they should have put him in a car with 10lbs of C-4 with a clock that had a 10 minute counter and 169 placards in from of him on it every few seconds a name would have come down starting with the oldest then down to the kids. 30 seconds before the timer ran out the last name to come down would have been his with a note that said BYE BYE sucker signed the Citizens of OKC.

 

[tank a holic]

Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/2972299
Here is my Idea for Capital Punishment if they can prove that the person charged did the crime without a doubt. 1 No appeals for 15 years he or she goes to the head of the line. 2 instead of a soft form like lethal injection I say we use something the arabs do PUBLIC BEHEADINGS. 3 For someone like Osama Bin Laden or Tim Mc Veigh or got off way to light in my own view for OBL strap him to a MK 84 and Drop him from 10K feet onto a hardened concrete target BTW the bomb is a dud with no fuse. For Mc Veigh they should have put him in a car with 10lbs of C-4 with a clock that had a 10 minute counter and 169 placards in from of him on it every few seconds a name would have come down starting with the oldest then down to the kids. 30 seconds before the timer ran out the last name to come down would have been his with a note that said BYE BYE sucker signed the Citizens of OKC.
I like this guy

 

[ironeagle2006]

Originally Posted by tank a holic
http:///forum/post/2972775
I like this guy

Ever wonder why in the Arab wolrd you can leave you car and house unlocked without fear. Called they do not screw around with crime at all. The punishment for theft is Lose your Right Hand second time Lose your Other hand. But here the Liberals and ACLU would have a freak fest if anyone had the guts to propose that.
You drive Drunk and kill someone IT is not a SIMPLE DUI it is CAPITAL MURDER in my eyes. You were the one that went out drinking got drunk and still made the CHOICE to get behind the wheel. Drugs you sell them NO PLEA deals at all even if you are a street level dealer cvaled the Death Penalty Automaticly. We want to win the War of Drugs fine then turn the police loose let them do whatever iot takes to win do not tie theuir hands on the cases. Also you Launder the drug cash You and all your assets and your businesses are now property of the Goverment with no Plea Deals and Money Laundering is a Capital offonse. We need to dry of the Money Machine for the Dealers and Cartels to win. We have tied the DEA and DOJ hands on the fight on Drugs it could be won called we just have to fight it with no restrictions.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/2972806
Ever wonder why in the Arab wolrd you can leave you car and house unlocked without fear. Called they do not screw around with crime at all. The punishment for theft is Lose your Right Hand second time Lose your Other hand. But here the Liberals and ACLU would have a freak fest if anyone had the guts to propose that.
You drive Drunk and kill someone IT is not a SIMPLE DUI it is CAPITAL MURDER in my eyes. You were the one that went out drinking got drunk and still made the CHOICE to get behind the wheel. Drugs you sell them NO PLEA deals at all even if you are a street level dealer cvaled the Death Penalty Automaticly. We want to win the War of Drugs fine then turn the police loose let them do whatever iot takes to win do not tie theuir hands on the cases. Also you Launder the drug cash You and all your assets and your businesses are now property of the Goverment with no Plea Deals and Money Laundering is a Capital offonse. We need to dry of the Money Machine for the Dealers and Cartels to win. We have tied the DEA and DOJ hands on the fight on Drugs it could be won called we just have to fight it with no restrictions.
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
We have to follow them all.
However it would be nice to see the Department of Corrections make life a little less comfortable for convicted criminals.Instead of letting convicts lift weights and watch cable ,drink and do drugs while incarcerated ,maybe we could find something a little more constructive for them to be doing.I kind of like what Sheriff Joe Arpaio does in Arizona .He make the prisoners sleep in tents in the desert,wear pink clothing,grow their own food,work on State projects.......
If you are OBL these right do not apply but i would rather see him rot in a hole than be put out of his misery with death.He welcomes death ..so make him wait.

 

[ironeagle2006]

We could argue in court that these are accepted punishments and remedies to crime in other nations and they work. Look at Indonesia when it comes to their Drug Laws. Called take the best of the rest of the World and put them into use here and deal with the challange as it comes.

 

[turningtim]

WOW, we live in a different world!
Darth, never said there SHOULD be a ban. I stated that the constitutional arguments are weak at best.
So we should have just executed this guy! Whoops.....
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/26...act/index.html
The Supreme court has NEVER UPHELD THE PATRIOT ACT!
Lower Federal courts have thrown it out!
OK Journey it wasn't 15 million. How many. Was it even in arms, trained soldiers, And if there was retaliation who would have gotten the help to back them up. The German soldier or the Jews?
Please again your arguments are weak and the governments at the time were/are not in the slightest bit similar to our government at time or now. They didn't have the Constitution did they. They didn't have legal recourse did they. The Parliament/justice hall was burnt to the ground the day after Hitler took office.
Obama has pronounced himself supreme leader (Fuhrer)? I thought that was the last administration. And surprise ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!
Now did the Founding Fathers really have everyone's rights in mind when they wrote this document or the rights of the wealthy, educated, white landowners?
Simply put How can you use a document in its literal terms when a sizable sections of our population where left out when it was enacted? Some were not considered people at the time.
Why b/c this document LIVES and GROWS as we as people learn and understand.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/2972837
We could argue in court that these are accepted punishments and remedies to crime in other nations and they work. Look at Indonesia when it comes to their Drug Laws. Called take the best of the rest of the World and put them into use here and deal with the challange as it comes.
This it what separates us from the rest of the world.
One could argue in court that the rest of the world dosent have the right to own Assault weapons either,or due process,or freedom of speech..........Thats why This great country is so uniquely different from the rest of the world.
We have the US Constitution they dont.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by TurningTim
http:///forum/post/2972840
Now did the Founding Fathers really have everyone's rights in mind when they wrote this document or the rights of the wealthy, educated, white landowners?
Simply put How can you use a document in its literal terms when a sizable sections of our population where left out when it was enacted? Some were not considered people at the time.

Preamble to the Us Constitution
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union,.......... Covers this question
Originally Posted by TurningTim
http:///forum/post/2972840
Why b/c this document LIVES and GROWS as we as people learn and understand.
Article V covers this statement,and im arguing that AWB is in direct conflict with it.The 2nd amendment hasnt been ratified.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2971878
This President,This Attorney General,This Congress,Cannot rescind a ratification of the 2nd Amendment that was never lawfully ratified in the first place.
Further more to all you 2nd Amendment haters out there,why would you want to ratify the 2nd Amendment in a time where we are under attack by enemy from home and abroad .
Unless?????? Dare I say, you stand with the enemys of MY Country.

Dude, you're posts have gone from mundane to ridiculous. You make so many suppositions and off the wall rants, I have a hard time typing with a straight face. You live in a world of conspiracy. Here, you claim anyone who doesn't agree with the interpretations of the 2nd Amendment, are now anti-American terrorists ready to take over the country. In another thread, you're adamant Obama isn't a legal resident of this country because he won't show you his original birth certificate. Stick to the issues. Quick getting all worked up because someone disagrees with your flawed logic.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2972866
Dude, you're posts have gone from mundane to ridiculous. You make so many suppositions and off the wall rants, I have a hard time typing with a straight face. You live in a world of conspiracy. Here, you claim anyone who doesn't agree with the interpretations of the 2nd Amendment, are now anti-American terrorists ready to take over the country. In another thread, you're adamant Obama isn't a legal resident of this country because he won't show you his original birth certificate. Stick to the issues. Quick getting all worked up because someone disagrees with your flawed logic.
Bionicarm you add nothing factual to debate here just attempts at insults.Turning Tim and others at least offer up intelligent arguments.AGAIN i never said OBAMA wast a Natural Born Citizen so take the cotton out of your ears and stick it in your mouth.If you want to debate then do so otherwise move along.
Another freedom of choice you have ,if you dont like my posts and they bother you ,dont read them.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2972096
Not only that,but the President dosent have the authority let alone the Attorney General to impose any restrictions,ratifications or any other acts on the 2nd Amendment or any other Amendment .
The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act was a attempt to sidestep the 2nd Amendment without actually trying to change it.It was shown that it didnt hold water and did nothing to slow violent crimes so it was left to expire and should be left this way.

 

[bionicarm]

The bottom line to all this is for the gun activist, there will NEVER be a compromise when it comes to gun laws or the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. No matter what anyone tells you, in your minds it is your God-given right to purchase and hold these firearms you love so dearly. You live with this fear and paranoai that if The Government takes away your revered weapons, it's only the beginning of The Final Takeover. Well I hate to tell you, but WE are The Government. There's no magical institution of brotherhood that has these special powers that can circumvent the Constitution everyone seems to continue to post in this thread. Every individual that you feel can strip these rights away, are the everyday normal people like you and me that WE elected. When the majority of Americans disagree with the viewpoints and philosophies of the current administration, we vote them out in the next election for their office. You people are all up in arms because Obama wants to ban your precious momentos that apparently you can't live without. Didn't the previous administration repeal this same law that was enacted by the administration before his? That's how the system works.
The only way there would be any possibility of the average American to lose the capability of owning a firearm, is if the 2nd Amendment were ratified. In the minds of ANY American or resident of this country, that Amendment, and the other nine contained in the Bill Of Rights are taboo. You would NEVER be able to elect a majority in the House, The Senate, and the Presidency to get any of those Amendments changed. Even if you could, the last of the three branches of the goverment, The Supreme Court, would have the power to overturn those decisions. It's callled Checks And Balances.
If Obama was successful in getting this new ban implemented, nothing much would change for the average gun owner. Big Brother isn't going to come knock on your door and confiscate these guns you feel you have to own to validate your Man Card. The ammo will still be available for you to 'Lock And Load' so you can get your daily adrenaline rush at the tune of $50. Anyone wanting a gun for home protection, or to have a reason to upgrade that NRA membership, will still have the capability to do so. You may not be able to buy that gun that was designed strictly for the military, but there's plenty other options out there that you can purchase that can make just as loud a noise, and do just as much damage.
I'll end this rant with a saying from a man that will be dearly missed in the world of news and entertainment --- "This is Paul Harvey, -- Good Day!"

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2972877
Bionicarm you add nothing factual to debate here just attempts at insults.Turning Tim and others at least offer up intelligent arguments.AGAIN i never said OBAMA wast a Natural Born Citizen so take the cotton out of your ears and stick it in your mouth.If you want to debate then do so otherwise move along.
Another freedom of choice you have ,if you dont like my posts and they bother you ,dont read them.
Nothing factual? And you do? Riiiight.
Think you need to go back to that other thread and reread your MULTIPLE posts on the issue. You claim here you never said Obama wasn't a Natural Born Citizen, but in the other thread, you go On and ON about how he isn't considered in your mind our true President until he shows you original proof he was born in Hawaii. I'll mail you my cotton...

 

[bang guy]

The Bill or Rights is about individual freedoms, not the "Average American".

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by TurningTim
http:///forum/post/2972840
WOW, we live in a different world!
Darth, never said there SHOULD be a ban. I stated that the constitutional arguments are weak at best.
so you are arguing for something you don't believe should happen........interesting....yet fruitless.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2972915
so you are arguing for something you don't believe should happen........interesting....yet fruitless.

Debating truth is never fruitless because we don't live in a binary world.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2972894
The bottom line to all this is for the gun activist, there will NEVER be a compromise when it comes to gun laws or the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. No matter what anyone tells you, in your minds it is your God-given right to purchase and hold these firearms you love so dearly. You live with this fear and paranoai that if The Government takes away your revered weapons, it's only the beginning of The Final Takeover. Well I hate to tell you, but WE are The Government. There's no magical institution of brotherhood that has these special powers that can circumvent the Constitution everyone seems to continue to post in this thread. Every individual that you feel can strip these rights away, are the everyday normal people like you and me that WE elected. When the majority of Americans disagree with the viewpoints and philosophies of the current administration, we vote them out in the next election for their office. You people are all up in arms because Obama wants to ban your precious momentos that apparently you can't live without. Didn't the previous administration repeal this same law that was enacted by the administration before his? That's how the system works.
There is nothing to interpret Ive already broken down the English language for you if you will go back and read. The 2nd Amend,is not a GOD given right, its a Constitutional given right as a last line of defense against Tyranny.
Do you really thing WE are the govenment?Do any of these clowns really listen to us?
The last Administration didn't repeal the AWB it expired as set fourth in the "Sunset Clause" in the bill.
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2972894
The only way there would be any possibility of the average American to lose the capability of owning a firearm, is if the 2nd Amendment were ratified. In the minds of ANY American or resident of this country, that Amendment, and the other nine contained in the Bill Of Rights are taboo. You would NEVER be able to elect a majority in the House, The Senate, and the Presidency to get any of those Amendments changed. Even if you could, the last of the three branches of the goverment, The Supreme Court, would have the power to overturn those decisions. It's callled Checks And Balances.
Please read Article V

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2972894
If Obama was successful in getting this new ban implemented, nothing much would change for the average gun owner. Big Brother isn't going to come knock on your door and confiscate these guns you feel you have to own to validate your Man Card. The ammo will still be available for you to 'Lock And Load' so you can get your daily adrenaline rush at the tune of $50. Anyone wanting a gun for home protection, or to have a reason to upgrade that NRA membership, will still have the capability to do so. You may not be able to buy that gun that was designed strictly for the military, but there's plenty other options out there that you can purchase that can make just as loud a noise, and do just as much damage.
The 2nd Amendment say differently
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2972894
I'll end this rant with a saying from a man that will be dearly missed in the world of news and entertainment --- "This is Paul Harvey, -- Good Day!"
And ill help you along by saying GOOD RIDDANCE