Obama to Seek New Assault Weapons Ban

wattsupdoc

Active Member
bionicarm
Delusional? No more dangerous? Let's see. An Uzi or TEC-9 is no more dangerous that a common hunting rifle. OK, Yep, they both shoot a projectile capable of killing a human being. You're right on that point. But the problem with your argument is the Uzi and TEC-9 can fire those projectiles at a rate 100 times faster than a conventional hunting rifle that is normally a bolt action. So if you were walking down the street, and some maniac yelled that he was going to shoot you, which of those two guns would you prefer he'd be carrying? Are you going to tell me it wouldn't matter? That he would have the same opportunity to hit you shooting a bolt action rifle that would take about 5 seconds per shot, as opposed to an Uzi that could shoot 50 rounds in that same 5 seconds?
My point EXACTLY. You seem to be under this delusion that these weapons we are talking about are FULLY automatic. Additionally you are under the delusion that something like this is going to happen to you. Sadly, because your hallucination does not afford your self the benefit of a firearm all you can do is run. A much better and happier hallucination to have would be one where as soon as the deranged CRIMINAL announces his attention, you shoot him in the head ....problem solved...you could then go back to dreaming up other scenarios where this is going to happen to you daily....
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2973297
Now if you know the firing rates of weapons you surely know the difference between fully Automatic weapons the military uses which require a special (and expensive) license and extensive background check for any individual to own and the semi automatics which anyone can own.
So why are you spreading false information?
In order to feed the fear my friend......
Because in LA LA LAND they are all fully automatic

Originally Posted by SCSInet

http:///forum/post/2973313
So this is what you are afraid of???
First, hunting rifles are also commonly pump action and even semi-automatic. I own one of each. I do not own even one bolt action gun.
But my real point is how often does this happen right now? How often did it happen before the AWB, how much less often did it happen while it was in place, and how much more did it happen after it expired?
I don't recall the last time I picked up the newspaper and read about someone going all postal in the street with a fully automatic weapon....
This kind of stuff generally only happens in the movies.
Why fear monger over something that is obviously statistically insignificant?
Again, this poster must obviously feel you are delusional too....
 

turningtim

Active Member
Honestly I don't know where to go. So I guess I will back out. Darth you are correct I argue the entire document b/c I see no way that you can pick and choose what is to be taken literally and what is up for interpretation.
I would hope that we can say that not all of the rights granted to us are free and clear without consideration for the times. Situations have been excepted by our legal system. Yelling Fire in a theater, hate speak and instigation of a riot. Not to mention exceptions to the TOTAL right to privacy.
Those of you whom say the Supreme Court has rejected anything to do with the Patriot Act needs to read!
If you are referring to Doe v Gonzales. Read Justice Ginsburg Decision.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Sep29.html
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nationa...s20060803.html
 

turningtim

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2972930
True, I won't disagree with this. But the discussion was the assault weapon's ban. I have been debating this aspect of the ban. Turning Tim is debating the constitution in general. Thus my debate with him is fruitless is my point as we are debating two different things. Thus the debate between ourselves is fruitles.
Now moving on, If the constitution is a living breathing document as he claims based off our times and knowledge and how it should be applied in these times, then it is safe to say the constitution is pointless. as it can be changed to mean what ever you think it should mean based off current events and situations. Therefore turning tim's comments towards the patriot act and it being unconstitutional do not wash,as times have changed and the patriot act does not remove any of your freedoms. You can still do everything you could before. except now you might be monitored to ensure others safety. so is the constitution a living breathing document that changes with the times or is it strict in it's meaning?
You can't have it both ways.....you can't pick one aspect to be living and breathing and another aspect not to be.
Didn't see this. You are right you can't have it both ways. So either where going to take it as a whole in the strictest of terms or we are going to use it as foundation for our legal system.
Here/now we have excepted so many things as points of law that do literally fly in the face of what was written. Have we not?
The Patriot act is not a constitutional amendment it is a LAW that all of us have recourse to challenge in our court system.
This is what makes this country. And this is what separates US from all others.
WE HAVE RECOURSE!
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2973280
Delusional? No more dangerous? Let's see. An Uzi or TEC-9 is no more dangerous that a common hunting rifle. OK, Yep, they both shoot a projectile capable of killing a human being. You're right on that point. But the problem with your argument is the Uzi and TEC-9 can fire those projectiles at a rate 100 times faster than a conventional hunting rifle that is normally a bolt action. So if you were walking down the street, and some maniac yelled that he was going to shoot you, which of those two guns would you prefer he'd be carrying? Are you going to tell me it wouldn't matter? That he would have the same opportunity to hit you shooting a bolt action rifle that would take about 5 seconds per shot, as opposed to an Uzi that could shoot 50 rounds in that same 5 seconds?

I'd rather face some guy with an Uzi than either a bolt action or shot gun. Especially as lack of training decreases.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
wattsupdoc;2972941 said:
bionicarm, BY your own analogy, because you state that the forefathers could not have seen such a powerful weapon. The only firearm that would be legal would be black powder. That's all they had in the way of handguns and riffles. Flintlock, black powder. They never could have imagined a weapon that fires just by pulling the trigger. Multiple times one right after the other...Or what about a weapon that reloads just by pulling a lever, or pumping a pump? They couldn't have seen that
Actually they could see the next generation of weapon. The Ferguson Breech loader of 1772. It was used in the Battle of Brandywine. Not a great weapon, but lead the way to better, faster loading firearms.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2973313
So this is what you are afraid of???
First, hunting rifles are also commonly pump action and even semi-automatic. I own one of each. I do not own even one bolt action gun.
But my real point is how often does this happen right now? How often did it happen before the AWB, how much less often did it happen while it was in place, and how much more did it happen after it expired?
I don't recall the last time I picked up the newspaper and read about someone going all postal in the street with a fully automatic weapon....
This kind of stuff generally only happens in the movies.
Why fear monger over something that is obviously statistically insignificant?

I'm actually not afraid of anything. Pump action and semi-auto guns? Don't tell me, you live in one of those stalking states that uses shot guns to hunt deer. I'm talking abot Remington BDL deer rifles. Anyway, that's irrelevent. The whole point behind this ban is to keep these kind of guns out of the hands of the REALLY bad guys. I'm not talking about the convenience store robbers. The main target are the drug cartels. Come down to Texas and hang out in the border towns for a while. It's gotten so bad, they've put advisories up for American citizens to avoid going into Mexico. The drug runners are better armed than the authorities.
As far as fear mongering, why all the paranoia about losing your rights to own a gun? As I said earlier, there is no way the Federal Government would ever deny someone the right to own a gun. As many of you stated, they did it to DC, and the Supreme Court overruled it. Took a while, but that's one flaw of our legal system. But I just don't see the logic behind owning these small lethal guns you're so adamant about having. I've fired the Uzi, TEC-9's, multi shooters many times myself. Personally I don't get it. Target shooting? Please. Maybe if the target is 25 - 50 yards. The only reason I see that a normal citizen would want to own one of these is if they have the urge to play Rambo at some range seeing how many POS cars they can fill full of holes.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2973372
My point EXACTLY. You seem to be under this delusion that these weapons we are talking about are FULLY automatic. Additionally you are under the delusion that something like this is going to happen to you. Sadly, because your hallucination does not afford your self the benefit of a firearm all you can do is run. A much better and happier hallucination to have would be one where as soon as the deranged CRIMINAL announces his attention, you shoot him in the head ....problem solved...you could then go back to dreaming up other scenarios where this is going to happen to you daily....
In order to feed the fear my friend......
Because in LA LA LAND they are all fully automatic

Again, this poster must obviously feel you are delusional too....

You must be dilusional if you don't think that the majority of the people who buy these guns turn these things into FULLY AUTOMATIC weapons 15 minutes after they buy them. Me afraid? Not in the neighborhood I live in. Now there's parts of San Antonio I wouldn't drive around at night because deaths have happened using these exact weapons. As far as my scenario, if you live in LA, that would explain your attitude. I'm sure everyone there lives their lives like it's a movie. East LA is like Tombstone. I wouldn't doubt one minute 80% of the people living around you aren't 'packin'.
 

wattsupdoc

Active Member
I've fired a few SKS's AK's etc. NONE of them were fully automatic. In fact I dont know if it really is possible to do this with them. I do know that filing the firing pin down WONT do it, that makes it not FIRE.
Who's fault is it that the police are outgunned???? Don't they have the opportunity to own these... You comment on keeping these out of the "REALLY BAD GUYS HANDS" shows a total lack of understanding of any thing real in this world.
Additionally, don't you think if the civilian population had these same guns, they could take up arms with the police. Also, you don't understand anything at all about California, or at least cant read, or cant remember. As you would see that they have some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. Furthermore, my handle states where I'm from and if you don't know where the OZARKS are, I doubt you even know how to find your way to the toilet. I am a native Texan myself, born and raised 1/2 my life. And probably 90% of the households aroungd here have weapons. We have a very low crime rate, Noone ever locks their houses or cars or anything. We go out anytime of night....All because we are all packing...
 

bionicarm

Active Member

Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2973669
I've fired a few SKS's AK's etc. NONE of them were fully automatic. In fact I dont know if it really is possible to do this with them. I do know that filing the firing pin down WONT do it, that makes it not FIRE.
Who's fault is it that the police are outgunned???? Don't they have the opportunity to own these... You comment on keeping these out of the "REALLY BAD GUYS HANDS" shows a total lack of understanding of any thing real in this world.
Additionally, don't you think if the civilian population had these same guns, they could take up arms with
the police. Also, you don't understand anything at all about California, or at least cant read, or cant remember. As you would see that they have some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. Furthermore, my handle states where I'm from and if you don't know where the OZARKS are, I doubt you even know how to find your way to the toilet. I am a native Texan myself, born and raised 1/2 my life. And probably 90% of the households aroungd here have weapons. We have a very low crime rate, Noone ever locks their houses or cars or anything. We go out anytime of night....All because we are all packing...

Your handle states where you're from? Let see.. wattsupdoc is a popular phrase from Bugs Bunny. "Impeach Obama", nope. That's the same line every other Republican in the country quotes. And the buck-toothed goober that pokes his head out avatar? So out of all of that, I'm supposed to surmise you're from the Ozarks? Do you even have running water and an inside toilet living there Mountain Boy? I thought maybe you found some "Oil, Black Gold, Texas Tea" and headed off to Californey with Jethro, Granny, and Ellie Mae.
You need to get out of the backwoods more if you don't think you can't turn an AK-47 or TEC-9 into a fully auto. It's called filing down the sear pin. Here's a simplistic description if you're interested:
http://www.hackcanada.com/ice3/misc/ak47mod.txt
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2973883
Your handle states where you're from? Let see.. wattsupdoc is a popular phrase from Bugs Bunny. "Impeach Obama", nope. That's the same line every other Republican in the country quotes. And the buck-toothed goober that pokes his head out avatar? So out of all of that, I'm supposed to surmise you're from the Ozarks? Do you even have running water and an inside toilet living there Mountain Boy? I thought maybe you found some "Oil, Black Gold, Texas Tea" and headed off to Californey with Jethro, Granny, and Ellie Mae.
You need to get out of the backwoods more if you don't think you can't turn an AK-47 or TEC-9 into a fully auto. It's called filing down the sear pin. Here's a simplistic description if you're interested:
http://www.hackcanada.com/ice3/misc/ak47mod.txt
Bump firing is much easier Doc.
You could do it with those bad assault automatic hang guns as well.
 

moprint

Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2973883
You need to get out of the backwoods more if you don't think you can't turn an AK-47 or TEC-9 into a fully auto. It's called filing down the sear pin. Here's a simplistic description if you're interested:
http://www.hackcanada.com/ice3/misc/ak47mod.txt
I called you out on this on page 3, go back and look. You clearly stated earlier it was the firing pin, so don't act like you know what you are talking about. Now that you have searched the internet, that little article was all you found?? You still shouldn't be talking about guns, because of your lack of knowledge. Hey we got running water in Missouri, aw heck gotta go though neighbor wants to make a phone call, I hate having a party line phone.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2973883
Your handle states where you're from? Let see.. wattsupdoc is a popular phrase from Bugs Bunny. "Impeach Obama", nope. That's the same line every other Republican in the country quotes. And the buck-toothed goober that pokes his head out avatar? So out of all of that, I'm supposed to surmise you're from the Ozarks? Do you even have running water and an inside toilet living there Mountain Boy? I thought maybe you found some "Oil, Black Gold, Texas Tea" and headed off to Californey with Jethro, Granny, and Ellie Mae.
You need to get out of the backwoods more if you don't think you can't turn an AK-47 or TEC-9 into a fully auto. It's called filing down the sear pin. Here's a simplistic description if you're interested:
http://www.hackcanada.com/ice3/misc/ak47mod.txt
Wow, another personal attack.
True, you can modify, but that is a great way to spend the rest of your life at Club Fed.
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2973642
I'm actually not afraid of anything.
You sure talk a lot about your concern that you are gonna get shot walking down the street.
Pump action and semi-auto guns? Don't tell me, you live in one of those stalking states that uses shot guns to hunt deer.
There you go with opinionated embelishments to facts again. Using a term like "stalking states" is indicative of preconceived notions, which only serve to cloud ones' judgement. Open your mind.
I am not familiar with the hunting laws in Georgia. The rifles I own I own for one reason, shooting trap.
My comments on clarification of rifles were merely to encourage you not to oversimplify.
The whole point behind this ban is to keep these kind of guns out of the hands of the REALLY bad guys. I'm not talking about the convenience store robbers. The main target are the drug cartels. Come down to Texas and hang out in the border towns for a while.

Uhh... you've talked about a lot of things in this thread. You've talked about convenience stores, you've talked about walking down the street and getting shot...
as soon as someone presents an arugment that you can't counter, you quickly change directions. I talk about the "street shootings" as being statistically insiginificant, and so rather than address anything, you decide to switch to a drug runner argument.
It's gotten pointless having an intelligent debate with you because who knows what you are going to pull out of your bag of tricks next!

Nonetheless, I am apparently a glutton for punishment, so we'll continue...
It's gotten so bad, they've put advisories up for American citizens to avoid going into Mexico. The drug runners are better armed than the authorities.
Your words, not mine.
So given that, how is it that if these guys are better armed in Mexico, and they are SMUGGLERS by trade, they won't just SMUGGLE guns?

As far as fear mongering, why all the paranoia about losing your rights to own a gun?
As I have said earlier in this thread, I am paranoid about losing ANY rights. I equate the the diminishing of ones' rights to losing them. There are some rights I have that I do not exercise (the right to own an assault weapon, as it happens), but I will fight to protect them too. The rights guaranteed to us by our constitution are one of the most magnificent aspects of living in this country. Those rights, whether you agree with them or not, practice them or not, or even care about whether or not you personally have them, are something that should be protected above all else.
But I just don't see the logic behind owning these small lethal guns you're so adamant about having. I've fired the Uzi, TEC-9's, multi shooters many times myself. Personally I don't get it. Target shooting? Please. Maybe if the target is 25 - 50 yards.
SO WHAT? The fact that you don't see a point means nothing other than it means that you have the ability to choose to waive that right if you wish.
So you don't get it. That's fine. Why are you in the frame of mind that because you don't see a need, then a ban is okay? Give me something... a statistic... a fact... somewhere that says that this ban's benefits justify the suppression of rights. 7 pages, 272 posts, and I'm still waiting......
Sorry, "I don't see the point" or "I just don't get it" is not good enough.
The only reason I see that a normal citizen would want to own one of these is if they have the urge to play Rambo at some range seeing how many POS cars they can fill full of holes.
S O W H A T ? ? ?
If I wanna shoot up a POS car, exactly who or what is it hurting? Whose life, liberty, or property is being denied?
Get it straight... Unless I am violating your (or someone else's) right to life, liberty or property, you shouldn't have anything to say about it.
 

acrylics

Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2973655
You must be dilusional if you don't think that the majority of the people who buy these guns turn these things into FULLY AUTOMATIC weapons 15 minutes after they buy them.
Highly unlikely. I've been in the industry or a hobbyist for a long time, I've never known anyone that has illegally converted one. The only folks that do would be, by definition, criminals, and I would guess with stolen weapons, not ones they actually paid for.
Conversion to FA carries 10 year sentence, $250k fine, and permaban from ever possessing a firearm again - for life. Sorry but I, and everyone I know, respects our rights too much to sacrifice them for a little fun. The respect we have for these rights is the exact reason we will fight for them.
As for that method of conversion; meh. There are numerous ways to convert SA to FA, but it is illegal. Most gun owners are very pro-law, they just don't want to see new laws turn them into criminals.
Originally Posted by bionicarm

http:///forum/post/2973642
But I just don't see the logic behind owning these small lethal guns you're so adamant about having. I've fired the Uzi, TEC-9's, multi shooters many times myself. Personally I don't get it. Target shooting? Please. Maybe if the target is 25 - 50 yards.
Because *you* don't see the logic is not a good enough reason to ban them.
FWIW, it's only a 9mm (maybe .45 on some Uzis, but still a handgun round) virtually all handgun targets are within 25-50 yards.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2973906
Get it straight... Unless I am violating your (or someone else's) right to life, liberty or property, you shouldn't have anything to say about it.

Ah, the liberal way. "They" know better than me how to live my life.
 

ironeagle2006

Active Member
I called a buddy of mine a Class III weapons owner. For those of you not familar with the ATF regulations he is certified to own a FA weapon from the ATF. He told me the stuff on the web on how to convert guns is in his word crap not what he used but gotta keep it kid friendly. He told me the stuff on the web will either reder the weapon useless or cause it to explosively malfunction like explode.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2973906
You sure talk a lot about your concern that you are gonna get shot walking down the street.
There you go with opinionated embelishments to facts again. Using a term like "stalking states" is indicative of preconceived notions, which only serve to cloud ones' judgement. Open your mind.
I am not familiar with the hunting laws in Georgia. The rifles I own I own for one reason, shooting trap.
My comments on clarification of rifles were merely to encourage you not to oversimplify.
Uhh... you've talked about a lot of things in this thread. You've talked about convenience stores, you've talked about walking down the street and getting shot...
as soon as someone presents an arugment that you can't counter, you quickly change directions. I talk about the "street shootings" as being statistically insiginificant, and so rather than address anything, you decide to switch to a drug runner argument.
It's gotten pointless having an intelligent debate with you because who knows what you are going to pull out of your bag of tricks next!

Nonetheless, I am apparently a glutton for punishment, so we'll continue...
Your words, not mine.
So given that, how is it that if these guys are better armed in Mexico, and they are SMUGGLERS by trade, they won't just SMUGGLE guns?

As I have said earlier in this thread, I am paranoid about losing ANY rights. I equate the the diminishing of ones' right sto losing them. There are some rights I have that I do not exercise (the right to own an assault weapon, as it happens), but I will fight to protect them too. The rights guaranteed to us by our constitution are one of the most magnificent aspects of living in this country. Those rights, whether you agree with them or not, practice them or not, or even care about whether or not you personally have them, are something that should be protected above all else.
SO WHAT? The fact that you don't see a point means nothing other than it means that you have the ability to choose to waive that right if you wish.
So you don't get it. That's fine. Why are you in the frame of mind that because you don't see a need, then a ban is okay? Give me something... a statistic... a fact... somewhere that says that this ban's benefits justify the suppression of rights. 7 pages and I'm still waiting......
Sorry, "I don't see the point" or "I just don't get it" is not good enough.
S O W H A T ? ? ?
If I wanna shoot up a POS car, exactly who or what is it hurting? Whose life, liberty, or property is being denied?
Get it straight... Unless I am violating your (or someone else's) right to life, liberty or property, you shouldn't have anything to say about it.
"Stalking states" refers to those states where deer hunters traditionally use shotguns to hunt or 'stalk' their prey. They don't sit stationary in a blind like we do here in Texas.
Sorry, I don't call a trap shooting gun a rifle. I call it a shotgun. A shotgun cannot be compared to a high-powered rifle, or a gun that does nothing but shower you with bullets. Yea, yea, it can shoot slugs, but that's not the point.
Sure I've used various scenarios about what can happen with these guns, because everyone of them has happened in real life. All you have to do is read the daily paper to see that.
That's the point about the Mexican drug cartel. They ARE smuggling these guns into Mexico from the US. Make them less available, and they won't have this type of firepower to go against the Federales.
You don't want to see the overall picture. You have this vision that everyone who owns a gun is this responsible person that only uses them for sport, hunting, or home protection. Just because you have a few (I use that term loosely) bad seeds out there, you don't feel it justifies taking away your rights to own something that has no practical purpose. Why stop at handguns or assault weapons? Why not nuclear devices? That's an armament. Why can't I have one of those sitting in my garage? You shooting that POS car, or even owning one of these weapons doesn't directly violate my (or someone else's) right to life, liberty or property, but there's the POTENTIAL that it can. You can be the most responsible gun owner in the country, then a life changing event can turn that completely around. Loss of a love one, financial crisis, loss of your job -- any of those could set you off. Happens all the time.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by moprint
http:///forum/post/2973904
I called you out on this on page 3, go back and look. You clearly stated earlier it was the firing pin, so don't act like you know what you are talking about. Now that you have searched the internet, that little article was all you found?? You still shouldn't be talking about guns, because of your lack of knowledge. Hey we got running water in Missouri, aw heck gotta go though neighbor wants to make a phone call, I hate having a party line phone.
Actually, I know more about these guns than I care to discuss. I know exactly what it takes to make any of these weapons full-auto capable. I used to be a big gun fanatic back in the 70's and 80's. My brother and I had virtually every kind of weapon imaginable. Used to hang out at the gun shows every other weekend. I owned FOUR Colt AR-15's at one time. One I built from scratch purchasing the individual parts at various gun shows. I know exactly what these weapons are capable of doing. I've seen it first hand.
 

wattsupdoc

Active Member
Look to my red neck friend then scroll to the right....it clearly says Ozarks....Now that I have taught you how to use your eyes, maybe we can work on your brain a little? Probably not.....Naw we aint got no runnin' water, our potty is indoor though. But it aint a flusher....not yet anyway.
So when you can not give a clear answer or reply properly to a response, you resort to personal attacks huh? That takes an IQ of about 10 to be able to do that. I'll give you some credit, we'll say 15. I like the redneck image I present here. You have no idea who is actually behind this image, but if you wanna think that's me.....maybe I outta not give you any credit after all. Hey, look that guy from jaws is posting on here too!

Oh and wattsupdoc is not a quote from bugs bunny.......What's up Doc? is but you can read cant you.......
Anyways. You have now changed the whole scenario around to the Mexican problem. Answer my question, I'll number them so you don't get lost, you do understand numbers don't you?
1. WHO'S FAULT IS IT THE MEXICAN
POLICE ARE OUT GUNNED?
2 DONT THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO OWN THESE ALSO?
3. HOW EXACTLY DOES BANNING THESE KEEP THEM OUT OF THE "REAL BAD GUYS" HANDS.
One more, I know it's a lot but you can do it!

4. WOULDNT YOU BE SAFER IN YOUR DEADLY NEIGHBORHOOD ID YOU ARMED YOURSELF?
 
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