Obama wins!

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2645903
I asked for a link because I knew the stories were BS. There's a reason why credible news organizations don't report it, it was a complete fabrication.
"credible" news services also ran fabrications/lies. Paging Mr Rather, Mr Dan Rather
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/2645734
what about Vioxx this was drug deemed safe by the FDA , the pharm. corp. and presrcibed freely by thousands of doctors... later recalled because it was killing people. this is just one example of thousands, where doctors, the FDA, and the pharms. declared something safe and effective and only until people started having horrible side effects including death and the greedy lawyers saw an opportunity to make $$$ was the drug pulled. now imagine if it could be proved that vaccines caused thousands of children to become autistic or permanently damaged or dead. the pharm corps will go bankrupt from the lawsuits, and the fda would be shut down. i need/we need to find the congressional hearing on this matter from about 5 years ago, those who testified had nothing to gain and they were elite medical researchers, guys from MIT and the like. maybe its on youtube i'll check, but it was something like 2 to 4 hours long. i happened upon it and that started my interest in this topic, as we just had our son. the facts are that the doctors get there info from the FDA and the drugs manufacturer, they believe that data and take most others research lightly. im not going to get into the kickbacks they get from the pharms for pushing their products... oh and Doc you really have a complex, "you need to teach Vinny something" and "you know more about the constitution than Obama bacause you hace a better education than him" wow!!!
So, a medication prescribed to people who were already high risk may have bumped that risk up a tad more? Vioxx had a decent safety record, and we were happy to prescribe a medication which had favorable side effect profile ( renal failure, GI bleed, etc). After prescibed to millions, a trend may have been forming. The safety net put in place to monitor for these kind of effects seemed to work well, and identified the risk. The drug was removed. I've given higher risk drugs. I've had to make complex decisions to give a drug which may save a life, or may cause life threatening side effects. Without that drug 100% chance of death with the drug 50% chance bad side effects. You speak with the patient, family and make the best decision you can. No one is perfect.
Obama apparently forgets the 2nd and 10th Ammendments when he needs to. Federal healthcare is uncaonsitutional as per the 10th Ammendment. Now, you want State run healthcare, that is Constitutional. Obama speaks of the "collective", and how the gov't knows better than you. Again find the word "collective" in the Constitutiton
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/2645652
Take it from someone that lives IN OBAMA land. The only reason he has the record he does is King Emil Jones the State Senate President forced everyone off the bills to give them to Obama when he was a State Senator. Also Obama only won office when he forced every other candiates petitions to be decertified by let us say less that honorable means. He also was the one that had the Jeri Ryan stuff leaked to keep her now ex husband from wiping the floor with him when he was running for Senate 2 years ago. His campaign tricks make Mr Roves' in 2004 look like Mr Rove was a virgin in a cathouse compared to what Obama will and has done in the past to win.
Have you noticed how much of the negative Obama stuff has been scrubbed? I had a link to a story in the Seatle Post Intellegencer about Obama getting caught in a red faced lie over his claim he didn't fill out the questionaire endorsing the handgun and simi auto ban. That story was pulled from that and a couple other papers at the same time. Luckily there are other papers that aren't out to sway the election.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2645922
"credible" news services also ran fabrications/lies. Paging Mr Rather, Mr Dan Rather
Yeah, that was Rather's coming out party> The one that really frosts me is Bill Moyers. Our tax dollars pay for that punk to spew propaganda for the left.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2645903
I asked for a link because I knew the stories were BS. There's a reason why credible news organizations don't report it, it was a complete fabrication.
C'mon you can do better than that. It's fabrication in your mind because you don't want to believe it. Again, go research the 2000 Republican Primary news and see what trash Bush found on McCain. Obama's will be mild in comparison. But of course you'llwant me tofind it for you because your eye's may burn if you read it first.

And you people think Libya has all of a sudden become this liberated country that's gonna play nice with everyone? I don't think journey would even believe that one...
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2646020
C'mon you can do better than that. It's fabrication in your mind because you don't want to believe it. Again, go research the 2000 Republican Primary news and see what trash Bush found on McCain. Obama's will be mild in comparison. But of course you'llwant me tofind it for you because your eye's may burn if you read it first.

And you people think Libya has all of a sudden become this liberated country that's gonna play nice with everyone? I don't think journey would even believe that one...

I did search it, you obviously didn't. No illegal loans, no mob fundraisers.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2646020
And you people think Libya has all of a sudden become this liberated country that's gonna play nice with everyone? I don't think journey would even believe that one...
It wasn't all of a sudden, unless you want to call the YEARS of diplomacy that you guys favor nothing, (which might be more accurate than not) or if coupled with diplomacy he saw what happened with Sadaam and said I don't need a nuke that bad...
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2646020
...And you people think Libya has all of a sudden become this liberated country that's gonna play nice with everyone? I don't think journey would even believe that one...

Actually I do believe it. I think Tripoli was wise enough to realize all of those ships in the Gulf were about 3 days away from their coastline, heard our President say "you're either with us or against us", and decided they didn't want to be on the receiving end of another pummeling (ala Reagan).
Apparently the EU, NATO, and the UN also believe it. If you have evidence to the contrary I'd be open to hearing it.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2646414
Actually I do believe it. I think Tripoli was wise enough to realize all of those ships in the Gulf were about 3 days away from their coastline, heard our President say "you're either with us or against us", and decided they didn't want to be on the receiving end of another pummeling (ala Reagan).
Apparently the EU, NATO, and the UN also believe it. If you have evidence to the contrary I'd be open to hearing it.
You people are hilarious. Twist anything to try and prove your point. It's like talking to a brick wall. You're now telling me that Muammar al-Gaddafi, the guy that was know as the principal financier of international terrorism, a major financier of the "Black September Movement" which perpetrated the Munich massacre at the 1972 Summer Olympics, and was accused by the United States of being responsible for direct control of the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing, known to be responsible for the bombing of the Pan Am flight out of Lockerbie, Scotland, is now an non-violent person who would never have any further desires to commit terroristic acts? He openly admitted he had WMD's, but after Bush blew up Iraq on that theory, he opened his borders to show he was dismantling them. But you don't think he'd never try and build them again?
He's playing the EU, NATO, and UN like a fiddle. He'll smile at you today, and blow the White House up tomorrow. Just like Sadaam, he'll never completely change. But you guys just keep on believing the dream...
If you believe Gaddafi is this now converted non-violent person who actively opposes terrorism, why are you so against Bill Ayers? What he did was wrong, but it doesn't even come close to the atrocities of Gaddafi. Has he shown any tendencies to promote terrorism over the recent years? The guy never spent one day in jail for his crimes, and is a college professor today. I'm still trying to find evidence and stories of all the people you claimed he killed with his bombs. The Republicans twisted the truth even on Obama's relationship with the guy:
"In the mid-1990s, Ayers and Dohrn hosted a meet-and-greet at their house to introduce Obama to their neighbors during his first run for the Illinois Senate. In 2001, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's campaign. Ayers also served alongside Obama between December 1999 and December 2002 on the board of the not-for-profit Woods Fund of Chicago. That board met four times a year, and members would see each other at occasional dinners the group hosted."
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...yers18.article
So Ayers supported Obama during his first Senate run, gave him a whopping $200, and MAYBE came across him 16 to 20 times over a 4 year period while he served on the same board as Obama, and now he good buds with him and a close confidante? Ayers now lectures at Harvard and Vassar. He writes the textbooks that are the standard for innovative approaches to reaching inner-city youth. Oh yeah, he's a REAL dangerous person. Give me Gaddafi any day.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2646666
If you believe Gaddafi is this now converted non-violent person who actively opposes terrorism, why are you so against Bill Ayers? What he did was wrong, but it doesn't even come close to the atrocities of Gaddafi. Has he shown any tendencies to promote terrorism over the recent years? The guy never spent one day in jail for his crimes, and is a college professor today. I'm still trying to find evidence and stories of all the people you claimed he killed with his bombs.
Never claimed he killed anyone. However he has gone on record stating they did not do enough and wishes they had done more.
Libya has stated their actions were wrong.
See the difference yet? One was repentant and PAID reparations...the other did not.
The longest sentence for any WU member handed out was 3 years. most had the charges dropped against them.
But take a look between how some members feel now and how ayers feels and you will see the substantial difference.
"Bill Ayers, now a professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago, was quoted in an interview to say "I don't regret setting bombs"[45
[46] Brian Flanagan has expressed regret for his actions during the Weatherman years, and compared the group's activities to terrorism. Flanagan said: "When you feel that you have right on your side, you can do some pretty horrific things."[47] . Mark Rudd, now a teacher of mathematics at Central New Mexico Community College, has said he has "mixed feelings" and feelings of "guilt and shame".
These are things I am not proud of, and I find it hard to speak publicly about them and to tease out what was right from what was wrong. I think that part of the Weatherman phenomenon that was right was our understanding of what the position of the United States is in the world. It was this knowledge that we just couldn't handle; it was too big. We didn't know what to do. In a way I still don't know what to do with this knowledge. I don't know what needs to be done now, and it's still eating away at me just as it did 30 years ago.
—Mark Rudd[6]
[48]
The group was responsible for setting bombs at the Pentagon, The Harry S. Truman building, The United states Capital building and for breaking out Timothy O'leary from jail.....
They also sent a formal letter declaring war on the united states.
No, Ayers wasn't that bad................
And Hannibal Lector just has a unique palate.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2646610
Prove it;.

Innocent until proven guilty...the burden of proof is on you.,...
See you are typical. Make wild claims and don't back it up with stories or links to information. And when you do it is not the COMPLETE story just bits and then when shown the full story you fumble around like a football in a midget league.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2646666
...... he opened his borders to show he was dismantling them. But you don't think he'd never try and build them again?
He's playing the EU, NATO, and UN like a fiddle. He'll smile at you today, and blow the White House up tomorrow. Just like Sadaam, he'll never completely change. But you guys just keep on believing the dream......
Hmmm. Just like Saddam huh?
So, have you changed your position? Do you now support the War against Saddam?
I never said Tripoli had gone Pacifist. I just pointed out that when they were threatened they blinked and backed down.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Here is how you make a claim against someone
Post parts of the story with the link to the CREDIBLE source so people can read the whole article to see that items quoted from it are in context.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A9679C8B63
Double quotation marks indicate complete sections taken from the story
"""By DINITIA SMITH
Published: September 11, 2001
''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.''
Mr. Ayers, who spent the 1970's as a fugitive in the Weather Underground, was sitting in the kitchen of his big turn-of-the-19th-century stone house in the Hyde Park district of Chicago. The long curly locks in his Wanted poster are shorn, though he wears earrings. He still has tattooed on his neck the rainbow-and-lightning Weathermen logo that appeared on letters taking responsibility for bombings. And he still has the ebullient, ingratiating manner, the apparently intense interest in other people, that made him a charismatic figure in the radical student movement.
Now he has written a book, ''Fugitive Days'' (Beacon Press, September). Mr. Ayers, who is 56, calls it a memoir, somewhat coyly perhaps, since he also says some of it is fiction. He writes that he participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, of the Capitol building in 1971, the Pentagon in 1972. But Mr. Ayers also seems to want to have it both ways, taking responsibility for daring acts in his youth, then deflecting it.
''Is this, then, the truth?,'' he writes. ''Not exactly. Although it feels entirely honest to me.''
But why would someone want to read a memoir parts of which are admittedly not true? Mr. Ayers was asked.
''Obviously, the point is it's a reflection on memory,'' he answered. ''It's true as I remember it.''
Mr. Ayers is probably safe from prosecution anyway. A spokeswoman for the Justice Department said there was a five-year statute of limitations on Federal crimes except in cases of murder or when a person has been indicted.
Mr. Ayers, who in 1970 was said to have summed up the Weatherman philosophy as: ''Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that's where it's really at,'' is today distinguished professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago. And he says he doesn't actually remember suggesting that rich people be killed or that people kill their parents, but ''it's been quoted so many times I'm beginning to think I did,'' he said. ''It was a joke about the distribution of wealth.''
He went underground in 1970, after his girlfriend, Diana Oughton, and two other people were killed when bombs they were making exploded in a Greenwich Village town house. With him in the Weather Underground was Bernardine Dohrn, who was put on the F.B.I.'s 10 Most Wanted List. J. Edgar Hoover called her ''the most dangerous woman in America'' and ''la Pasionara of the Lunatic Left.'' Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn later married.
In his book Mr. Ayers describes the Weathermen descending into a ''whirlpool of violence.''
''Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon,'' he writes. But then comes a disclaimer: ''Even though I didn't actually bomb the Pentagon -- we bombed it, in the sense that Weathermen organized it and claimed it.'' He goes on to provide details about the manufacture of the bomb and how a woman he calls Anna placed the bomb in a restroom. No one was killed or injured, though damage was extensive.
Between 1970 and 1974 the Weathermen took responsibility for 12 bombings, Mr. Ayers writes, and also helped spring Timothy Leary (sentenced on marijuana charges) from jail. ""
""So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ''I don't want to discount the possibility,'' he said. ""
""During his fugitive years, Mr. Ayers said, he lived in 15 states, taking names of dead babies in cemeteries who were born in the same year as he. He describes the typical safe house: there were usually books by Malcolm X and Ho Chi Minh, and Che Guevara's picture in the bedroom;
Notice the marxist influences, a theme common to many Obama associates)fermented Vietnamese fish sauce in the refrigerator, and live sourdough starter donated by a Native American that was reputed to have passed from hand to hand over a century.""
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2646666
You people are hilarious. Twist anything to try and prove your point. It's like talking to a brick wall. You're now telling me that Muammar al-Gaddafi, the guy that was know as the principal financier of international terrorism, a major financier of the "Black September Movement" which perpetrated the Munich massacre at the 1972 Summer Olympics, and was accused by the United States of being responsible for direct control of the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing, known to be responsible for the bombing of the Pan Am flight out of Lockerbie, Scotland, is now an non-violent person who would never have any further desires to commit terroristic acts? He openly admitted he had WMD's, but after Bush blew up Iraq on that theory, he opened his borders to show he was dismantling them. But you don't think he'd never try and build them again?
He's playing the EU, NATO, and UN like a fiddle. He'll smile at you today, and blow the White House up tomorrow. Just like Sadaam, he'll never completely change. But you guys just keep on believing the dream...
If you believe Gaddafi is this now converted non-violent person who actively opposes terrorism, why are you so against Bill Ayers? What he did was wrong, but it doesn't even come close to the atrocities of Gaddafi. Has he shown any tendencies to promote terrorism over the recent years? The guy never spent one day in jail for his crimes, and is a college professor today. I'm still trying to find evidence and stories of all the people you claimed he killed with his bombs. The Republicans twisted the truth even on Obama's relationship with the guy:
"In the mid-1990s, Ayers and Dohrn hosted a meet-and-greet at their house to introduce Obama to their neighbors during his first run for the Illinois Senate. In 2001, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's campaign. Ayers also served alongside Obama between December 1999 and December 2002 on the board of the not-for-profit Woods Fund of Chicago. That board met four times a year, and members would see each other at occasional dinners the group hosted."
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...yers18.article
So Ayers supported Obama during his first Senate run, gave him a whopping $200, and MAYBE came across him 16 to 20 times over a 4 year period while he served on the same board as Obama, and now he good buds with him and a close confidante? Ayers now lectures at Harvard and Vassar. He writes the textbooks that are the standard for innovative approaches to reaching inner-city youth. Oh yeah, he's a REAL dangerous person. Give me Gaddafi any day.


I love it, you can't admit the USA won this battle. without firing a shot at him. BTW please point out how anyone (besides yourself) as twisted anything...
If the worse you can find on McCain is that he has someone working for him who was a proponent of removing lybia after they complied with the conditions placed on them. Your party even with us selecting the worse possible republican candidate is screwed.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2646790
Hmmm. Just like Saddam huh?
So, have you changed your position? Do you now support the War against Saddam?
I never said Tripoli had gone Pacifist. I just pointed out that when they were threatened they blinked and backed down.
Are you nuts? Why would I support yet another political war that has absolutely no merit? The American public was duped into the Iraq War, because it was initially cast as revenge for the attacks on 9/11. Then all of a sudden, it's to get a guy out of power that pretty much had the same attitudes as Gaddafi, who you seem not to worry about anymore. And Sadaam had no direct involvement with 9/11, and Bush knew it. But here we are, almost seven years from the anniversary of the falling of the WTC, and the guy that admitted to doing it is still out there laughing at us, planning his next attack. But for some strange reason, you think we're successful. Unless you can completely erradicate terrorism, you will not be successful. Period. You can fluff the stories of success all you want, but bottom line, it's a wash. Terrorism will still exist. It's just a part of life in the 21st century.
Sure Gaddafi backed down. The guy isn't stupid. He saw what "Get them WMD's" Bush did to Iraq. So he kindly complied... for now. We drop our guard and the guy will saunter right in and do what he's always done in the past.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/2645301
its wasn't my intention to insult anyone other than that doctor who claimed he knew more about the constitution than Obama. because he has a degree in medicine, i countered with thats like me saying i know more about being a prisoner than McCain because i did a weekend in jail in my youth. my best friend has a newborn and is getting him vaccinated, to each his own, i respect his and his wifes decision and they respect ours. the last thing i want to do is alienate myself here, because i need good advise for my tank, lol. Autism has rose 700% in this country, something is causing it. i and many others including congressman, doctors, and medical researchers have testified to congress that the preservative thimerasol has terrible effects on young children including autism and death. look it up for yourself.
I still contend I know the Constitution better than Obama. In the face of the 10th Ammendment why is he trying to take a power NOT enumerated?
Obama is an enemy of the 2nd Ammendment.
There is no "collective" in the Constitution. Read the 4th Ammendment
Need I say more?
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2646753
Innocent until proven guilty...the burden of proof is on you.,...
See you are typical. Make wild claims and don't back it up with stories or links to information. And when you do it is not the COMPLETE story just bits and then when shown the full story you fumble around like a football in a midget league.
I'm not making any claims. Just what I've read online. Just like the junk you read online about Obama. The New York Times did write a story about the birthday invitation:
"Some callers, the article said, were upset to read that Gov. Fife Symington of Arizona and Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican, had sent birthday greetings. (Governor Symington's press secretary said his message had been a machine-signed form letter, while the note from Senator McCain's office, his press secretary said, was written by a staff member declining an invitation for the Senator to attend)."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all
Did McCain tell his staff member to decline the invitation, or did that person do it on his/her own volition? Don't know that answer. Go ask McCain.
It is interesting that I found another blog whereby someone did research to find that at least five members of the Bonanno family made generous donations ($2,100 each) to the McCain campaign. Each member made a donation that was $200 less than the federal maximum on the same day.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/se...K&amt=a&sort=A
But of course that means nothing. I'm sure McCain doesn't stay in touch with the family.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Turning down a birthday invitation is a far cry from "mob figure attending a fundraiser at McCain's house".
As far as the Bonanno donations that just demonstrates the stupidity of people who take anything they read on a blog at face value (I include Obama is a muslim and wont say the pledge in that catagory). Crime Boss Bonannp had 4 kids, none of them are the donors listed and only the oldest sone was even part of the "family". .
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06182007...dan_mangan.htm
Reason I knew this and the "illegal campaign" loans were BS is that crap had been posted and exposed as phoney in another thread.
 
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