Obama wins!

stdreb27

Active Member
Nationalization of private industries = socialism
http://www.foxnews.com/urgent_queue/...f44,2008-06-18
Rep. Maurice Hinchey (D-NY), member of the House Appropriations Committee and one of the most-ardent opponents of off-shore drilling
1115
We (the government) should own the refineries. Then we can control how much gets out into the market.
Hinchey on why they postponed the Appropriations markup
Obama didn't say this but his party did...
 
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vinnyraptor

Guest
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2651557
a link for the mythical pipeline you keep talking about and the link for the civilian casualties, the same things I have been asking for since the beginning.
DUDE have you ever heard of google? research it for yourself, there are thousands of websites on both subjects. the current death toll alone fir this war is 600,000 check for yourself. some sites say the toll is much higher. as for the pipeline, im pretty sure the documentary farhenhiet 9/11 goes deep into that, as well as many others and supports these facts with official documents, interviews, and video. that pipeline is one of the main reasons why we went to war, and why Iran is being pumped up as another imminent threat, this time their throwing the word nuclear weapons around. Iraq is the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world, Iran is rich in natural gas, and Afghanistan produces most of the worlds herion and opium. I personally saw the news video of Taliban leaders being interviewed by local Crawford news people at a press conference about thier meeting with Govenor Bush, they discussed one topic only, this pipeline. that footage exists and i think its in Farenhiet 9/11.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/2652572
DUDE have you ever heard of google? research it for yourself, there are thousands of websites on both subjects. the current death toll alone fir this war is 600,000 check for yourself. some sites say the toll is much higher. as for the pipeline, im pretty sure the documentary farhenhiet 9/11 goes deep into that, as well as many others and supports these facts with official documents, interviews, and video. that pipeline is one of the main reasons why we went to war, and why Iran is being pumped up as another imminent threat, this time their throwing the word nuclear weapons around. Iraq is the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world, Iran is rich in natural gas, and Afghanistan produces most of the worlds herion and opium. I personally saw the news video of Taliban leaders being interviewed by local Crawford news people at a press conference about thier meeting with Govenor Bush, they discussed one topic only, this pipeline. that footage exists and i think its in Farenhiet 9/11.
Are you serious? You actually believe Michael Moore? But won't believe fox news. This is absolutely hopeless.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/2652572
DUDE .... the current death toll alone fir this war is 600,000 check for yourself. ...
So, just to clarify, the casualties we've caused just went from 1.5 million to 600,000?
At least you're getting closer to the truth...
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/2652572
DUDE have you ever heard of google? research it for yourself, there are thousands of websites on both subjects. the current death toll alone fir this war is 600,000 check for yourself. some sites say the toll is much higher. as for the pipeline, im pretty sure the documentary farhenhiet 9/11 goes deep into that, as well as many others and supports these facts with official documents, interviews, and video. that pipeline is one of the main reasons why we went to war, and why Iran is being pumped up as another imminent threat, this time their throwing the word nuclear weapons around. Iraq is the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world, Iran is rich in natural gas, and Afghanistan produces most of the worlds herion and opium. I personally saw the news video of Taliban leaders being interviewed by local Crawford news people at a press conference about thier meeting with Govenor Bush, they discussed one topic only, this pipeline. that footage exists and i think its in Farenhiet 9/11.
Your post #424 on page 9 you said we killed 1.5 million Iraqis. Now it is 600,000. Make up your mind or get your "facts" straight.
I also ran a google search here it is.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...n+Iraq&spell=1
The only pipeline I see for afghanistan comes FROM RUSSIA or KAZAKHSTAN through afghanistan to india.
The other pipeline I see (from a credible news source not some misc blog) is out of Iraq TO IRAN.
Yeah we will benefit hugely from both of those....
Go watch the 9/11 7th tower tape, atleast that is abit more "credible" on conspiracy.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fishy.....
http:///forum/post/2652342
Fact huh.... No offense - but are you sure you are not mentally handicapped?

Well as most Obama bashers in this thread have asked for - show me proof that your seemingly ignorant statements are true. Prove to me statistically that families do not work for minimum wage and what percentage - as you state the "poor" are mostly unstable or handicapped.
Educate me oh wise one...

Previous to your posts regarding this particular matter I was under the impression that at least some of your statements were somewhat educated.
How did I miss this post. Wise One, I like it. Maybe admin will give me a name change
I assume you will accept the bureau of labor Statistics as a credible source?
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2004tbls.htm
Minimum wage workers tend to be young. About half of all hourly-paid workers earning $5.15 or less were under age 25, and about one-fourth were age 16-19. Among teenagers, about 9 percent earned $5.15 or less. About 2 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less. Among those age 65 and over, the proportion was 4 percent. (See table 1 and table 7.)
From Table 8
Percent of minimum wage earners never married total 62.1
16 to 24 years old 48.7%
25 and over 15.1%
Married, Spouse Present minimum wage earners total 24%
16 to 24 years old 3.2%
25 and over 20.8%
Other marital status collecting Minimum wage total 13.9
16 to 24 .08%
25 and over 13.1%
http://woodrow.mpls.frb.fed.us/pubs/.../wage.cfm?js=0
""An adult minimum wage earner might not be so poor if the pay of other workers in the household supplements his or her income. Consider workers earning less than $8.25 (about half the national average hourly wage), a group that comprises both minimum wage earners and those whose incomes are low enough to be affected by the proposed increase. Fewer than a third of these workers are the primary breadwinners in their households, according to Census Bureau estimates, and less than 10 percent are the heads of households below the poverty line. Since the majority of low-wage earners are not dependent on their own income and the vast majority do not head poor households, raising the minimum wage will not significantly aid the working poor.""
It's the herritage foundation but it's sourced.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm1181.cfm
Effort Earns Raises in Short Order
The evidence shows that minimum wage workers experience rapid upwards mobility. Between 1998 and 2003—a time when the federal minimum wage did not rise—the median minimum wage worker earned a 10 percent raise within a year of starting work. During this period, over two-thirds of workers starting out at the minimum wage earned more than the minimum a year later.[6] Once workers have gained the skills and experience that make them more productive, they can command higher wages.
The government cannot force employers to pay their workers more than they are worth in terms of their productivity. A firm will not pay an employee $7.25 an hour if his labor only raises profits by $6.00 an hour. However, workers can and do choose to become more productive—increasing their earnings in the process.
Three-fifths of minimum wage earners work part time, and many are students and young adults who desire this flexibility.[7] But minimum wage workers who choose to work longer hours gain more skills and experience than those who work part time, and as expected, they earn larger raises. A typical minimum wage employee who works 35 hours or more a week is, within a year, 13 percent more likely to be promoted and, on average, will enjoy a raise worth five percentage points more than that of a minimum wage worker putting in fewer than 10 hours per week.[8]
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2653004
So, just to clarify, the casualties we've caused just went from 1.5 million to 600,000?
At least you're getting closer to the truth...
600,000 is the high end of the legitimate estimates. I think 594K is the number.
 
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2652245
The vast majority of people in poverty are neither hard working or lazy. They to some degree have mental problems. And no, I am not saying everyone in poverty is a head case. Just that the single largest demographic is those who aren't capable of holding a good job.
Although I tend to agree "somewhat" in the majority of your posts on this thread, I feel statements like this will hurt your creditability.

Do you honestly believe that the vast majority of people in poverty have mental problems?
 

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2652323
Did the mental problem thing hit a little close to home?

Sorry but it's fact. Made it real plain in the post that not everyone who is poor is wacked or lazy. But the majority do have issues with learning disabilities or mental issues.

And for the record I grew up poor myself. Mostly because the old man was a world class drunk which I include in the mental problems.
You show me someone trying to raise a family on a minimum wage job and I'll show you someone too stupid to be trusted with the care and upbringing of children.
I'm sure all single parents would tend to disagree with you on this statement. I was raised by a single mother who took care of 3 kids and made minimum wage (at 2 jobs) for 3 years, until she found a better job. My mother was by no means mentally unstable....
 
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2653147
How did I miss this post. Wise One, I like it. Maybe admin will give me a name change
I assume you will accept the bureau of labor Statistics as a credible source?
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2004tbls.htm
Minimum wage workers tend to be young. About half of all hourly-paid workers earning $5.15 or less were under age 25, and about one-fourth were age 16-19. Among teenagers, about 9 percent earned $5.15 or less. About 2 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less. Among those age 65 and over, the proportion was 4 percent. (See table 1 and table 7.)
From Table 8
Percent of minimum wage earners never married total 62.1
16 to 24 years old 48.7%
25 and over 15.1%
Married, Spouse Present minimum wage earners total 24%
16 to 24 years old 3.2%
25 and over 20.8%
Other marital status collecting Minimum wage total 13.9
16 to 24 .08%
25 and over 13.1%
http://woodrow.mpls.frb.fed.us/pubs/.../wage.cfm?js=0
""An adult minimum wage earner might not be so poor if the pay of other workers in the household supplements his or her income. Consider workers earning less than $8.25 (about half the national average hourly wage), a group that comprises both minimum wage earners and those whose incomes are low enough to be affected by the proposed increase. Fewer than a third of these workers are the primary breadwinners in their households, according to Census Bureau estimates, and less than 10 percent are the heads of households below the poverty line. Since the majority of low-wage earners are not dependent on their own income and the vast majority do not head poor households, raising the minimum wage will not significantly aid the working poor.""
It's the herritage foundation but it's sourced.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm1181.cfm
Effort Earns Raises in Short Order
The evidence shows that minimum wage workers experience rapid upwards mobility. Between 1998 and 2003—a time when the federal minimum wage did not rise—the median minimum wage worker earned a 10 percent raise within a year of starting work. During this period, over two-thirds of workers starting out at the minimum wage earned more than the minimum a year later.[6] Once workers have gained the skills and experience that make them more productive, they can command higher wages.
The government cannot force employers to pay their workers more than they are worth in terms of their productivity. A firm will not pay an employee $7.25 an hour if his labor only raises profits by $6.00 an hour. However, workers can and do choose to become more productive—increasing their earnings in the process.
Three-fifths of minimum wage earners work part time, and many are students and young adults who desire this flexibility.[7] But minimum wage workers who choose to work longer hours gain more skills and experience than those who work part time, and as expected, they earn larger raises. A typical minimum wage employee who works 35 hours or more a week is, within a year, 13 percent more likely to be promoted and, on average, will enjoy a raise worth five percentage points more than that of a minimum wage worker putting in fewer than 10 hours per week.[8]
I looked at the three links provided and could not find where it says anything about a "vast majority of people in poverty" have any sort of mental issues
.
 

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2653152
600,000 is the high end of the legitimate estimates. I think 594K is the number.
Not only that, but 600,000 is the total number of people killed in Iraq since the war began... Friend and foe, civilian and soldier, killed by both
sides...
I want a link to those numbers posted by the UN Vinny. You said they were there if I looked for myself; I looked, they aren't there that I can find. So please you provide the link to the UN data...
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Vinny, I've posted a map of Central Asia. Please explain to me how a "mythical" pipeline from Afghanistan to the Caspian Sea involves Iraq?
I suspect you screwed up Vinny and got your conspiracy theories intertwined. The pipeline is the reason why 9-11 was an inside job; to give us an excuse to invade Afghanistan, not Iraq....
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Hydrodamoper
http:///forum/post/2653199
I looked at the three links provided and could not find where it says anything about a "vast majority of people in poverty" have any sort of mental issues
.
Maybe you didn't read this in the post
"They to some degree have mental problems. And no, I am not saying everyone in poverty is a head case. Just that the single largest demographic is those who aren't capable of holding a good job."
I could have worded it better but I was quoting the vast majority from another post. I would say a majority but I don't know about vast. I'll see what I can dig up for stats,
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2653223
Vinny, I've posted a map of Central Asia. Please explain to me how a "mythical" pipeline from Afghanistan to the Caspian Sea involves Iraq?
I suspect you screwed up Vinny and got your conspiracy theories intertwined. The pipeline is the reason why 9-11 was an inside job; to give us an excuse to invade Afghanistan, not Iraq....
To bad we don't have a cricket chirping smiley...
 
V

vinnyraptor

Guest
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2653004
So, just to clarify, the casualties we've caused just went from 1.5 million to 600,000?
At least you're getting closer to the truth...
600,000 in THIS war! both wars combined + deaths do to sanctions puts it over 1.5 million, just to clarify!
 
V

vinnyraptor

Guest
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2653223
Vinny, I've posted a map of Central Asia. Please explain to me how a "mythical" pipeline from Afghanistan to the Caspian Sea involves Iraq?
I suspect you screwed up Vinny and got your conspiracy theories intertwined. The pipeline is the reason why 9-11 was an inside job; to give us an excuse to invade Afghanistan, not Iraq....
natural gas will be pumped from Iran to the sea, it will also run from Iraq thru Iran to the caspian sea, pumping crude, both lines will also run through Afghanistan to feed Pakistan and China, does that make sense?
 
V

vinnyraptor

Guest
people are poor for a vast number of reason's and no statistic can give us one or two reasons why they are financially strapped. but to say that all poor people are lazy is out of touch with reality or just alittle touched. how many "rich" folks were born into money, get gravy jobs in the family business or what have you and never work a day in thier life? i know several myself, and i'm barely middle class. i also know alot of couples where both work 40+ hours a week doing honest work and can barely make the monthly bills do to rising fuel, food, energy, and healthcare costs. the TRUTH is there are more people in this situation, then the lazy s.o.b.'s who cant and wont work. to compound the problem folks like these aren't getting raises because of the tough economy, but everything is going up around them. so its like there taking pay cuts every 4 months or so as the dollar falls and costs rise. most of these honest hardworking AMERICAN families have little or no savings left, if they had any to begin with, and are one or two paychecks from losing everything, and litterally being homeless. its a real problem, and its not because they're lazy, or mentally ill. its because the GOP ruined this country, with this fake war and horrible economics.
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2653805
Maybe you didn't read this in the post
"They to some degree have mental problems. And no, I am not saying everyone in poverty is a head case. Just that the single largest demographic is those who aren't capable of holding a good job."
I could have worded it better but I was quoting the vast majority from another post. I would say a majority but I don't know about vast. I'll see what I can dig up for stats,
 
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