Obama wins!

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2651761
Lets connect the dots... as they are they don't add up... We were told reports indicated WMD's in Iraq... however photos and info released afterward indicated they did not... UN inspectors found nothing... and we still have not found anything after 7 years. Now we don't hear anything about WMD's and its about terrorist... whom mostly seem to be foreigners coming to Iraq... As far as insurgency... I would expect Iraq citizens ..especially militant ones to fight against an occupation... just as we would if someone came and invaded the USA... Now lets consider the reports... lets say the Clinton reports indicated WMD's.... okay... that was in 1998... we have had reports and intelligence afterward indicating that that was not accurate... or that they had been destroyed... Take the Plaime incident... this shows that the Bush Admin would go to extreme lengths to hide the truth... because as soon as reports were going to be reported that Iraq did not buy nuke components from Africa... she gets outed and her career is ruined. Lets look at all the bad things associated with this admin... Gitmo, Katrina, Atty Generals, and so much I can't even remember.... One telling sign is the resignation of Colin Powell... He knew that he defended a war that was wrong or built on faulty intelligence... that is why he quit...because he was used.
I love how you remember the initial allegation, but when they go back and retract statements you don't remember that.
And yet still ignore what would have had to happen for your claims to actually have worked.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2651769
That is a silly statement... he is a US Senator... I think that gives him more clearance than you.. and more information than many military personel. Isn't he on the Armed Forces committee or Security Committee in the Senate... I haven't commented on the accusations above because they are

able.. So now Rezko is a terrorist with links to the Iraq government... the stories you guys come up with

Thats what they say... he got better treatment... I didn't say it was good.. Point is ... that McCain failed to become an admiral... because he was not qualified enough...
Ask Patrick Leahy if just being a Senator gives you security clearance

Oh, and by the way, qualified or not John McCain didn't become an admiral because he was left disabled as a result of the great treatment the communists in Vietnam gave him.
And while I am at it that "bunch" of planes you claim were lost as a result of McCain's whatever? The total number was 5. He lost 2 during training, 1 to engine failure, one when he was shot down and one while he was waiting for takeoff. A systems failure on another jet caused a rocket to be fired on deck of the carrier. The rocket hit McCain's wing tank and started a fire. Once he got clear McCain saw another pilot was caught in the fire. Part of the reason McCain walks funny is that as he was running back to help the other pilot to saftey the fire caused an explosion which resulted in McCain being hit with shrapnel in the legs and chest.
May not have been the best pilot in the world but he showed great character, something we should look for in a president.

 

[darthtang aw]

Rylan, explain this bold face lie.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=65577
Atleast McCain served and doesn't have to make crap up.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2651769
That is a silly statement... he is a US Senator... I think that gives him more clearance than you.. ...
Please show me in the Constitution where a citizen must undergo a Security Clearance process before they can choose to run for office...
I don't know how Senators are "cleared". Like I said, however, I assure you I would not hve my job with Obama's friends.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2650848
So never mind that most of his proposals are for the redistribution of wealth from the rich to the lazy. (the very definition of socialism the cornerstone of marx and failed in china, and russia) We aren't the ones who brought up the indians slavery and nuking the japs.
How am I not surprised you'd say something like this? I'd wager that the vast majority of the people who live on the edge of or in poverty are some of the hardest working people in our society. These are the poeple who have to work 10-12 hours a day at minimum wage in an effort to barely get by and even then they still need help.
If it was up to you, would give a helping hand to these people or would you let them fall deeper and deeper into poverty?
Also, what do you do all day -- it seems to me as if you spend a lot of time playing on this site instead of working

I don't know who you're calling lazy.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2652196
How am I not surprised you'd say something like this? I'd wager that the vast majority of the people who live on the edge of or in poverty are some of the hardest working people in our society. These are the poeple who have to work 10-12 hours a day at minimum wage in an effort to barely get by and even then they still need help.
If it was up to you, would give a helping hand to these people or would you let them fall deeper and deeper into poverty?
Also, what do you do all day -- it seems to me as if you spend a lot of time playing on this site instead of working

I don't know who you're calling lazy.
I'm sorry, I still believe this is a country that rewards people for their work.
I'm proof.
From 19 to 23 I worked 40 to 60 hours a week to pay for school, and took anywere from 15-18 hours a symester. Paid my own way through college, and now have a relaxing 40+ hour a week job, right now I'm between projects, in a couple months I'll be back to working 60+ hours a week. (and not visiting sfw so much.) I have family who thinks a good days work is 20 hour day, (this guy is worth millions) he started with literally the shirt on his back. I've worked with him, it is rediculous how hard this man works. and he is rewarded for it.
I know people that by your definition would be considered poor. They qualify and recieve "the check" their kids have "baby daddies." And they are some of the laziest people I know. They moan about not having a car, but refuse to walk a mile to work. Refuse to try to catch rides. Blow money at rent to own on a 60 inch tv. Spend money on cell phone contracts then moan when they can't pay it in two months. Literally won't keep a job for more than 3 months, because they and I quote "make him work to hard" or "actually expect me to work on saturday". Yeah they are lazy, my grandparants walked 100's of miles to get across the border. And this lazy wellfare bum can't get off his own butt and walk a mile to work in the morning. That guy knows he can live off of my and others hard work. (the problem with socialism is the freerider) So yes, as a whole I stand by my statement. (refering to the self made rich, not the daddy gave me my money morons or the marry into money ones either.)

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2652196
How am I not surprised you'd say something like this? I'd wager that the vast majority of the people who live on the edge of or in poverty are some of the hardest working people in our society. These are the poeple who have to work 10-12 hours a day at minimum wage in an effort to barely get by and even then they still need help.
If it was up to you, would give a helping hand to these people or would you let them fall deeper and deeper into poverty?
Also, what do you do all day -- it seems to me as if you spend a lot of time playing on this site instead of working

I don't know who you're calling lazy.
Do you remember the parable Jesus told, with the guy who left the country and gave 3 servants, one got 10 talents, the other 5 talents and the last 1 talent.
And the first 2 guys doubled their money, but the last guy burried it. Did the story go that the guy take the money from the richer one and spread it out to make it equal?
No, he took the money from the guy who burried it, because he didn't produce anything, because didn't produce anything with the means that he had. Then gave it to the guy who did.
There are very few reasons why someone can't succeed financially in the country, usually people just won't.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2652196
How am I not surprised you'd say something like this? I'd wager that the vast majority of the people who live on the edge of or in poverty are some of the hardest working people in our society. These are the poeple who have to work 10-12 hours a day at minimum wage in an effort to barely get by and even then they still need help.
If it was up to you, would give a helping hand to these people or would you let them fall deeper and deeper into poverty?
Also, what do you do all day -- it seems to me as if you spend a lot of time playing on this site instead of working

I don't know who you're calling lazy.
People who steal for a living tend to be lazy

The vast majority of people in poverty are neither hard working or lazy. They to some degree have mental problems. And no, I am not saying everyone in poverty is a head case. Just that the single largest demographic is those who aren't capable of holding a good job.
How many people do you know that are trying to support a family on a minimum wage job?
That is a totally bogus argument. Anyone with a decent work history and work ethic is making more than minimum wage. Unless you are talking some kid fresh out of high school getting a job to help the family because mom or dad died or split or something or highschool kids that get married cause they have to it don't happen.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2652196
How am I not surprised you'd say something like this? I'd wager that the vast majority of the people who live on the edge of or in poverty are some of the hardest working people in our society. These are the poeple who have to work 10-12 hours a day at minimum wage in an effort to barely get by and even then they still need help.
If it was up to you, would give a helping hand to these people or would you let them fall deeper and deeper into poverty?
Also, what do you do all day -- it seems to me as if you spend a lot of time playing on this site instead of working

I don't know who you're calling lazy.
The VAST majority of minimum wage jobs are part time jobs, that highschoolers pickup. I don't think I ever worked at minimum wage. No one is going to raise a family at min wage. There is absolutely no reason why a normal person with a decent work ether even without a highschool diploma is going to work at minimum wage. I'm not that far away from entry level low pay without an education type work. and I seriously only remember one job that was posted for an opening below 6 dollars an hour.

 

[jmick]

If you are stuck making minimum wage and lack the skills to get a better job or there aren't better jobs then you are not going to be rewarded for your hard work. Hell, the price of a gallon of gas is going to = minimum wage in the near future, isn't that a scary thing?
I can't speak for anyone else but I realize that I am lucky to have been born white and into an upper middle class family where my success was not guaranteed but the likelihood of it was very high. Would you think that a black female who was born in the inner city projects to a poor family would be afforded the same opportunities? The very culture and enviroment would suggest otherwise.
Some people can work as hard as they want but if they lack the skills, opportunities and avenues to "succeed" their likelihood to is greatly diminished.
Also, what percentage of government spending is on social services? I wanna say it’s around 2%. If a small portion is abusing the system who cares when it is a benefit to the majority of those people. Or would you rather take it away completely and not help your fellow man?

 

[fishy.....]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2652245
People who steal for a living tend to be lazy

The vast majority of people in poverty are neither hard working or lazy. They to some degree have mental problems. And no, I am not saying everyone in poverty is a head case. Just that the single largest demographic is those who aren't capable of holding a good job.
How many people do you know that are trying to support a family on a minimum wage job?
That is a totally bogus argument. Anyone with a decent work history and work ethic is making more than minimum wage. Unless you are talking some kid fresh out of high school getting a job to help the family because mom or dad died or split or something or highschool kids that get married cause they have to it don't happen.

The inaccuracies in your statement are ridiculous and honestly offensive.....
True - some people below the poverty line are unstable - mostly a percentage of homeless people. However there is also a percentage that due to economic downturns lost their good paying job and had to settle for a lower paying one, thus contributing to loosing their house, etc.
As for minimum wage jobs there are a plethora of them and plenty of people working them of all ages and family sizes.
I myself grew up in a "poor" household - food stamps, medicare, etc. Neither of my parents were unmotivated or mentally unstable. They just made some unfortunate decisions and experienced some unforeseeable events. All of my friends families were in the same situation.
I guess I cannot blame you for your incorrect statement however, you are after all a Republican......

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2652258
The VAST majority of minimum wage jobs are part time jobs, that highschoolers pickup. I don't think I ever worked at minimum wage. No one is going to raise a family at min wage. There is absolutely no reason why a normal person with a decent work ether even without a highschool diploma is going to work at minimum wage. I'm not that far away from entry level low pay without an education type work. and I seriously only remember one job that was posted for an opening below 6 dollars an hour.
About 60% of minimum wage jobs are part time gigs. More info for you, only 30% of these jobs are picked up by highschool kids. If you were a single mom with no skills you'd take what you could get. You seem really out of touch man.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0622/p01s03-usec.html#

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2652261
If you are stuck making minimum wage and lack the skills to get a better job or there aren't better jobs then you are not going to be rewarded for your hard work. Hell, the price of a gallon of gas is going to = minimum wage in the near future, isn't that a scary thing?
I can't speak for anyone else but I realize that I am lucky to have been born white and into an upper middle class family where my success was not guaranteed but the likelihood of it was very high. Would you think that a black female who was born in the inner city projects to a poor family would be afforded the same opportunities? The very culture and enviroment would suggest otherwise.
Some people can work as hard as they want but if they lack the skills, opportunities and avenues to "succeed" their likelihood to is greatly diminished.
Also, what percentage of government spending is on social services? I wanna say it’s around 2%. If a small portion is abusing the system who cares when it is a benefit to the majority of those people. Or would you rather take it away completely and not help your fellow man?
2%? Are you kidding me, try 40%.
as for minimum wage jobs, I know Home depot around here is hiring like mad trying to find good workers. They start at minimum 9 an hour and that is not knowing anything and your job is to push shopping carts. so don't give me ther minimum wage crap. I even have a boss that has been with Home depot for just over 5 years and he is an assistant manager making 60,000 a year with NO college degree. It is called apply yourself and work your way up. Hell even McDonalds around here is starting at 7 an hour to 16 year old kids. So get off it. If a person wants to work and works hard, the jobs are there....Jobs that do not require a College degree.
I am curious Jmick you started an anti McCain thread and we were debating it, then you quit, is it because you can't back up what you posted on McCain when confronted with information not from moveon.org?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2652285
About 60% of minimum wage jobs are part time gigs. More info for you, only 30% of these jobs are picked up by highschool kids. If you were a single mom with no skills you'd take what you could get. You seem really out of touch man.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0622/p01s03-usec.html#
"The typical minimum-wage worker is not a teenager earning side money," says Isaac Shapiro, an associate director at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal-leaning think tank in Washington.
In fact, they say, upping wages will only create incentives for businesses to hire fewer low-skilled workers - which is what happened when at least 146,000 restaurant workers lost their jobs after the last minimum-wage hike, according to the National Restaurant Association.
My numbers were wrong. According to the graph, ages 16-19 were 30% and from 20 to 24 another 19. So 50% of the minimum wage earners are of school age. Either highschool to college. Another interesting note, 95% of minimum wage earners never finished college...

 

[stdreb27]

One of my better friends is one of these lazy people I talk about and even he makes about 8 bucks an hour. And he is probably the laziest person I know. I'm not sure where this "oh poor single mom thing comes from." There isn't an entry level retail job that will only pay 5.25 an hour unless you are talking about dollar general.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Fishy.....
http:///forum/post/2652268
The inaccuracies in your statement are ridiculous and honestly offensive.....
True - some people below the poverty line are unstable - mostly a percentage of homeless people. However there is also a percentage that due to economic downturns lost their good paying job and had to settle for a lower paying one, thus contributing to loosing their house, etc.
As for minimum wage jobs there are a plethora of them and plenty of people working them of all ages and family sizes.
I myself grew up in a "poor" household - food stamps, medicare, etc. Neither of my parents were unmotivated or mentally unstable. They just made some unfortunate decisions and experienced some unforeseeable events. All of my friends families were in the same situation.
I guess I cannot blame you for your incorrect statement however, you are after all a Republican......
Did the mental problem thing hit a little close to home?

Sorry but it's fact. Made it real plain in the post that not everyone who is poor is wacked or lazy. But the majority do have issues with learning disabilities or mental issues.
And for the record I grew up poor myself. Mostly because the old man was a world class drunk which I include in the mental problems.
You show me someone trying to raise a family on a minimum wage job and I'll show you someone too stupid to be trusted with the care and upbringing of children.
I started my first true job working at a 7-11. Started at minimum wage and got 2 raises before I left for a better paying job, I was there less than 5 months and got 2 raises. 7-11 clerk isn't exactly a high skill position.
You going to tell me someone who has started a family is going to be in a position that they can't get a better than minimum wage jobs? That is absurd.

 

[fishy.....]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2652323
Did the mental problem thing hit a little close to home?

Sorry but it's fact. Made it real plain in the post that not everyone who is poor is wacked or lazy. But the majority do have issues with learning disabilities or mental issues.
And for the record I grew up poor myself. Mostly because the old man was a world class drunk which I include in the mental problems.
You show me someone trying to raise a family on a minimum wage job and I'll show you someone too stupid to be trusted with the care and upbringing of children.
I started my first true job working at a 7-11. Started at minimum wage and got 2 raises before I left for a better paying job, I was there less than 5 months and got 2 raises. 7-11 clerk isn't exactly a high skill position.
You going to tell me someone who has started a family is going to be in a position that they can't get a better than minimum wage jobs? That is absurd.

Fact huh.... No offense - but are you sure you are not mentally handicapped?

Well as most Obama bashers in this thread have asked for - show me proof that your seemingly ignorant statements are true. Prove to me statistically that families do not work for minimum wage and what percentage - as you state the "poor" are mostly unstable or handicapped.
Educate me oh wise one...

Previous to your posts regarding this particular matter I was under the impression that at least some of your statements were somewhat educated.

 

[reefraff]

I love how anyone who isn't a bleeding heart socialist is labeled a Republican.
The one thing my father taught me was to be skeptical, actually he didn't teach me a thing, I learned it by watching him

Also learned not to depend on anyone for any thing which is a sad lesson for a kid to learn from their dad.
I hit high school in the mid 70's and was very politically aware. I thought Jimmy Carter was going to be the best thing since color TV. His "we have to lower our standard of living" speech convinced me he wasn't the answer.
Along comes Ronald Reagan. Old fart, red neck and whatever else. Growing up in a Democrat household in California he was a dirty word but as opposed to Jimmy Carter? I listened to what he had to say and a lot of it made since. I voted for him twice. Thought I was a republican. After 4 years of King George the first started to wonder. Voted for Perrot, got Clinton. BUMMER!!! 2 years later got a CONSERVATIVE Republican congress. WAY COOL!!! Within 4 years the real conservatives like Newt were forced out of power and by 2000 nearly every one of the "good" Republicans had been forced out of power and were leaving washington.
If there was any doubt it had been erased by then, I wasn't a Republican. You have to be willing to follow whichever direction the current wind is blowing the agenda to be anything as far as party identification. I have voted for, campaigned for and contributed to several Democrats but it was all at the local level where the D and the R don't make much difference.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Fishy.....
http:///forum/post/2652342
Fact huh.... No offense - but are you sure you are not mentally handicapped?

Well as most Obama bashers in this thread have asked for - show me proof that your seemingly ignorant statements are true. Prove to me statistically that families do not work for minimum wage and what percentage - as you state the "poor" are mostly unstable or handicapped.
Educate me oh wise one...

Previous to your posts regarding this particular matter I was under the impression that at least some of your statements were somewhat educated.
Here you go.
This is from 2002 mind you but was the only unbiased source that both sides of the debate might accept.
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2002.htm
I had a much more extensive breakdown, but one side of the argument would not accept a link from heritage foundation even if the data is from the bureau of labor.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2652381
Here you go.
This is from 2002 mind you but was the only unbiased source that both sides of the debate might accept.
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2002.htm
I had a much more extensive breakdown, but one side of the argument would not accept a link from heritage foundation even if the data is from the bureau of labor.
I've posted bls links before, and they have been impuned as a biased source.