jennythebugg
Active Member
i really wish i had a puking smiley . all i want to say about that is if a white or hispanic preacher was preaching like that against blacks they would be sued and probably shot
Obama's Church and ex-paster
- Thread starter beth
- Start date
shogun323
Active Member
This is all that comes to my mind when I hear Rev. Wright's rhetoric:
trea·son /ˈtrizən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tree-zuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2.a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3.the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
trea·son /ˈtrizən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tree-zuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2.a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3.the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2519465
Beth, you are right. Some Americans (I'm done labeling Americans as "black" or "white" or "Mexican", etc. We're all Americans, dang it), do look at history differently.
I guess my question would be who is teaching them this alternative viewpoint?
So, which "them" would you be referring to? I guess that implies that there is a right way or a wrong way to look at the history, or perspective. I'm just wondering who decides the right and wrong? And what exactly is the right way to look at it?
http:///forum/post/2519465
Beth, you are right. Some Americans (I'm done labeling Americans as "black" or "white" or "Mexican", etc. We're all Americans, dang it), do look at history differently.
I guess my question would be who is teaching them this alternative viewpoint?
So, which "them" would you be referring to? I guess that implies that there is a right way or a wrong way to look at the history, or perspective. I'm just wondering who decides the right and wrong? And what exactly is the right way to look at it?
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2519853
So, which "them" would you be referring to? I guess that implies that there is a right way or a wrong way to look at the history, or perspective. I'm just wondering who decides the right and wrong? And what exactly is the right way to look at it?
I believe history needs to be looked at in totality. As Americans we need to look at American History. That involves the European immigrants, Mexican immigrants, Asian immigrants, slavery, Indian Wars, etc.
"Them", in my post refers to any political leaders/teachers etc. who to narrowly focus on just one segment of the Nation's history in an attempt to push a political agenda.
http:///forum/post/2519853
So, which "them" would you be referring to? I guess that implies that there is a right way or a wrong way to look at the history, or perspective. I'm just wondering who decides the right and wrong? And what exactly is the right way to look at it?
I believe history needs to be looked at in totality. As Americans we need to look at American History. That involves the European immigrants, Mexican immigrants, Asian immigrants, slavery, Indian Wars, etc.
"Them", in my post refers to any political leaders/teachers etc. who to narrowly focus on just one segment of the Nation's history in an attempt to push a political agenda.
scubadoo
Active Member
Even if I buy into the excuse Obama never knew and/or heard of those messages...with the exception of one....Certainly, the church honoring a known hater and racist Farrakahn was no secert...yet he remained a member and supporter of this church.
He's now on record claminng he never was in the pew....hmmm..
Then why did Obama say this when he announce his presidency? Why would he disinvite Wright if he never knew of all (with one exception) of the hateful racist positions in his sermons?
Mr. Wright said that in the phone conversation in which Mr. Obama disinvited him from a role in the announcement, Mr. Obama cited an article in Rolling Stone, “The Radical Roots of Barack Obama.”
According to the pastor, Mr. Obama then told him, “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”
From the rolling stone magazine article that Obama used as the reason for disinviting...
Wright takes the pulpit here one Sunday and solemnly, sonorously declares that he will recite ten essential facts about the United States. "Fact number one: We've got more black men in prison than there are in college," he intones. "Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!" There is thumping applause; Wright has a cadence and power that make Obama sound like John Kerry. Now the reverend begins to preach. "We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. . . . We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. . . . We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. . . . We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means!" The crowd whoops and amens as Wright builds to his climax: "And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS (edited, pastor used profanity in his sermon)!"
You can visit the other threads for more evidence Obama knew the message his adviser, political team member, spiritual leader and mentor was sending. This support of hate speech is alarming and IMO......renders any positive message as just hot air...actions and/or inaction drowns out words
He's now on record claminng he never was in the pew....hmmm..
Then why did Obama say this when he announce his presidency? Why would he disinvite Wright if he never knew of all (with one exception) of the hateful racist positions in his sermons?
Mr. Wright said that in the phone conversation in which Mr. Obama disinvited him from a role in the announcement, Mr. Obama cited an article in Rolling Stone, “The Radical Roots of Barack Obama.”
According to the pastor, Mr. Obama then told him, “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”
From the rolling stone magazine article that Obama used as the reason for disinviting...
Wright takes the pulpit here one Sunday and solemnly, sonorously declares that he will recite ten essential facts about the United States. "Fact number one: We've got more black men in prison than there are in college," he intones. "Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!" There is thumping applause; Wright has a cadence and power that make Obama sound like John Kerry. Now the reverend begins to preach. "We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. . . . We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. . . . We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. . . . We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means!" The crowd whoops and amens as Wright builds to his climax: "And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS (edited, pastor used profanity in his sermon)!"
You can visit the other threads for more evidence Obama knew the message his adviser, political team member, spiritual leader and mentor was sending. This support of hate speech is alarming and IMO......renders any positive message as just hot air...actions and/or inaction drowns out words
reefraff
Active Member
It's hard to make the claim Mrs. Obama doesn't agree with the Pastor
From the New Yorker
"Obama begins with a broad assessment of life in America in 2008, and life is not good: we’re a divided country, we’re a country that is “just downright mean,” we are “guided by fear,” we’re a nation of cynics, sloths, and complacents. “We have become a nation of struggling folks who are barely making it every day,” she said, as heads bobbed in the pews. “Folks are just jammed up, and it’s gotten worse over my lifetime. And, doggone it, I’m young. Forty-four!”
Sorry but I know way too many "folks" who meet none of that criteria to say the country is full of them.
From the New Yorker
"Obama begins with a broad assessment of life in America in 2008, and life is not good: we’re a divided country, we’re a country that is “just downright mean,” we are “guided by fear,” we’re a nation of cynics, sloths, and complacents. “We have become a nation of struggling folks who are barely making it every day,” she said, as heads bobbed in the pews. “Folks are just jammed up, and it’s gotten worse over my lifetime. And, doggone it, I’m young. Forty-four!”
Sorry but I know way too many "folks" who meet none of that criteria to say the country is full of them.
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2519238
He said his preacher is like the "old uncle I don't always agree with" and that everybody has somebody like that in their family.
Except you don't appoint him as your spiritual TEACHER! You don't put him in front of your "christian family" and ask him to lead the way toward the truth!!
Wow.
See, now I gotta watch the news to see how he handles this.
If you have an uncle he will always be your uncle. He is not the leader of an orgnization and has no organized platform outside the family setting for his views.
If you are a member of a church where the "pastor" is spewing hate speech you do not agree with and/or honors a known hater/racist legend....you can simply walk out and never return. Gee..isn't it amazing that all those hate speeches only occured when Obama missed the service?
http:///forum/post/2519238
He said his preacher is like the "old uncle I don't always agree with" and that everybody has somebody like that in their family.
Except you don't appoint him as your spiritual TEACHER! You don't put him in front of your "christian family" and ask him to lead the way toward the truth!!
Wow.
See, now I gotta watch the news to see how he handles this.
If you have an uncle he will always be your uncle. He is not the leader of an orgnization and has no organized platform outside the family setting for his views.
If you are a member of a church where the "pastor" is spewing hate speech you do not agree with and/or honors a known hater/racist legend....you can simply walk out and never return. Gee..isn't it amazing that all those hate speeches only occured when Obama missed the service?
jennythebugg
Active Member
can anyone see a slightly skewed version of westboro baptist church with all this anti american stuff?
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by LexLuethar
http:///forum/post/2519334
I do think that people get up in arms about racism when sometimes that isn't the case, but to believe that racism is dead is a lie. Because it is still alive and (painfully) well today. So is it that crazy to thing that young black americans have a bleak view of the future? I don't think so.
I agree racism is still alive today for blacks. We have made significant strides but it does still exist in some parts and we still have work to do.
That's why we should be embracing messages for unity and we should support organizations and churches that seek to bring people together. Racism also appears to exist in Obama's church as well. I'm sure young blacks leave that church feeling good about whites, jews and the US. What exactly does a message of hate towards the US, whites and jews do to young kids when it is coming from a "pastor"?
What view of history past and present is Wright teaching his "followers"?
http:///forum/post/2519334
I do think that people get up in arms about racism when sometimes that isn't the case, but to believe that racism is dead is a lie. Because it is still alive and (painfully) well today. So is it that crazy to thing that young black americans have a bleak view of the future? I don't think so.
I agree racism is still alive today for blacks. We have made significant strides but it does still exist in some parts and we still have work to do.
That's why we should be embracing messages for unity and we should support organizations and churches that seek to bring people together. Racism also appears to exist in Obama's church as well. I'm sure young blacks leave that church feeling good about whites, jews and the US. What exactly does a message of hate towards the US, whites and jews do to young kids when it is coming from a "pastor"?
What view of history past and present is Wright teaching his "followers"?
lexluethar
Active Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2520076
I agree racism is still alive today for blacks. We have made significant strides but it does still exist in some parts and we still have work to do.
That's why we should be embracing messages for unity and we should support organizations and churches that seek to bring people together. Racism also appears to exist in Obama's church as well. I'm sure young blacks leave that church feeling good about whites, jews and the US. What exactly does a message of hate towards the US, whites and jews do to young kids when it is coming from a "pastor"?
What view of history past and present is Wright teaching his "followers"?
Oh no doubt. Mr. Wright (i won't recognize him as a rev.) obviously focuses on one aspect of American society. He chooses not to talk about anything else other than the negativity created during parts of Americas past - which i'm sure he does this for a political agenda. But i think the main reason is because this type of radical preaching (if you can call it that) draws a crowd. Please realize that if he were to say these things and people bood him and disagreed with his views, then he wouldn't still be preaching. I do believe that he feels America is still stuck in the 60's, and that he has these hate speeches for the fact that it has drawn a crowd.
We are trying to 'fix' what has happen in the past, and we are making strives to make a more equal world. LIke journey said, although we shouldn't ignore those dark days of segregation, we should also focus on what is being down today to create equality. It sucks that we have people (plural because there are thousands of people in leadership positions advocating this type of message) teaching americans that American is racist, bias, and 'out to destroy' them.
http:///forum/post/2520076
I agree racism is still alive today for blacks. We have made significant strides but it does still exist in some parts and we still have work to do.
That's why we should be embracing messages for unity and we should support organizations and churches that seek to bring people together. Racism also appears to exist in Obama's church as well. I'm sure young blacks leave that church feeling good about whites, jews and the US. What exactly does a message of hate towards the US, whites and jews do to young kids when it is coming from a "pastor"?
What view of history past and present is Wright teaching his "followers"?
Oh no doubt. Mr. Wright (i won't recognize him as a rev.) obviously focuses on one aspect of American society. He chooses not to talk about anything else other than the negativity created during parts of Americas past - which i'm sure he does this for a political agenda. But i think the main reason is because this type of radical preaching (if you can call it that) draws a crowd. Please realize that if he were to say these things and people bood him and disagreed with his views, then he wouldn't still be preaching. I do believe that he feels America is still stuck in the 60's, and that he has these hate speeches for the fact that it has drawn a crowd.
We are trying to 'fix' what has happen in the past, and we are making strives to make a more equal world. LIke journey said, although we shouldn't ignore those dark days of segregation, we should also focus on what is being down today to create equality. It sucks that we have people (plural because there are thousands of people in leadership positions advocating this type of message) teaching americans that American is racist, bias, and 'out to destroy' them.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by jennythebugg
http:///forum/post/2520073
can anyone see a slightly skewed version of westboro baptist church with all this anti american stuff?
Yes
http:///forum/post/2520073
can anyone see a slightly skewed version of westboro baptist church with all this anti american stuff?
Yes
zman1
Active Member
I don't agree with the two parsed 10 seconds of sermons over 20 years, that we have been seeing on the so called liberal media. Certainly, not the approach and words in making a point. Are there 20 seconds over the last 20 years that the minister has siad that you would agree with? I fault the minister for the ministers words not the congregation being present or not. The minister is retired. Sometimes being tooo old and growing up in different times isn't good for the present time. Out with the old, in with the new
Jeremiah A. Wright on June 8, 1938
John Sidney McCain III on August 29, 1936
Jeremiah A. Wright on June 8, 1938
John Sidney McCain III on August 29, 1936
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2520567
I don't agree with the two parsed 10 seconds of sermons over 20 years, that we have been seeing on the so called liberal media. Certainly, not the approach and words in making a point. Are there 20 seconds over the last 20 years that the minister has siad that you would agree with? I fault the minister for the ministers words not the congregation being present or not. The minister is retired. Sometimes being tooo old and growing up in different times isn't good for the present time. Out with the old, in with the new
Jeremiah A. Wright on June 8, 1938
John Sidney McCain III on August 29, 1936
Actually, the tapes are longer than 20 seconds. I'm sure we could find some positive remarks from David Duke that would appear he is main stream and not a racist. However, that does not negate his hatred of blacks.
Wright was still an active member of the NObama campaign as of 3/14/08...when he either left willingly or was kicked to the curb screaming.
If I attended David Duke functions past or present...I would most likely be called a racist hater by many blacks , whites and other groups and corretly so.
Those that pursue a message of unity...should allign themsleves with groups and organizations that beleive in this. Let me know when Wright joins the fold.
I wonder how kids attending these hate rallies feel when they leave this church? How do they view their country..and whites and jews?
Someone already pointed out the negative impact the rap industry might have on young blacks....what impact do these hate rallies have?
http:///forum/post/2520567
I don't agree with the two parsed 10 seconds of sermons over 20 years, that we have been seeing on the so called liberal media. Certainly, not the approach and words in making a point. Are there 20 seconds over the last 20 years that the minister has siad that you would agree with? I fault the minister for the ministers words not the congregation being present or not. The minister is retired. Sometimes being tooo old and growing up in different times isn't good for the present time. Out with the old, in with the new
Jeremiah A. Wright on June 8, 1938
John Sidney McCain III on August 29, 1936
Actually, the tapes are longer than 20 seconds. I'm sure we could find some positive remarks from David Duke that would appear he is main stream and not a racist. However, that does not negate his hatred of blacks.
Wright was still an active member of the NObama campaign as of 3/14/08...when he either left willingly or was kicked to the curb screaming.
If I attended David Duke functions past or present...I would most likely be called a racist hater by many blacks , whites and other groups and corretly so.
Those that pursue a message of unity...should allign themsleves with groups and organizations that beleive in this. Let me know when Wright joins the fold.
I wonder how kids attending these hate rallies feel when they leave this church? How do they view their country..and whites and jews?
Someone already pointed out the negative impact the rap industry might have on young blacks....what impact do these hate rallies have?
salty blues
Active Member
Does not bode well for Obama. Now if only they could find something good on Hillary, we could be shed of her too. Oh, that's right, I forgot for a sec her last name is Clinton. It wouldn't stick.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
IMO, Obama supports the hate. It's apparent in his campaign. Didn't he refuse the pledge of allegiance? Or was it the national anthem? Either way, that alone turned me off. Then didn't his wife let it slip that she was finally for "once in her life proud of America"? Looks to me like anti- American sentiment.
Lots of Americans have different views of this country. But does that warrant hate of it? IMO, love it or leave it, be a part of the cure or part of the disease. It's your choice.
What kind of preacher preaches hate anyways? Isn't that hypocritical. This goes to show, that if ANYONE will lead, there will be those who follow. Regardless if the message.
Lots of Americans have different views of this country. But does that warrant hate of it? IMO, love it or leave it, be a part of the cure or part of the disease. It's your choice.
What kind of preacher preaches hate anyways? Isn't that hypocritical. This goes to show, that if ANYONE will lead, there will be those who follow. Regardless if the message.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
http:///forum/post/2519419
We used Nukes to end a war that was thrust upon us. Huge difference.
North Korea- Kim Jong "mentally ill"= need I say more?
Iraq- wants to wipe Israel off the map
Iran- same as Iraq
India- wipe Pakistan off the map
Pakistan- wipe India off the map
Russia- looking to make a dime
US policy is and allways was, Nukes as a deterrent, not a threat.
Besides we did warn the Japanese, Hey we are fixing to bomb you back to the stone age. You had better surender. It isn't hypocritical to see the results that were unknown at the time. Realise the horror and work to ensure that it doesn't happen again.
http:///forum/post/2519419
We used Nukes to end a war that was thrust upon us. Huge difference.
North Korea- Kim Jong "mentally ill"= need I say more?
Iraq- wants to wipe Israel off the map
Iran- same as Iraq
India- wipe Pakistan off the map
Pakistan- wipe India off the map
Russia- looking to make a dime
US policy is and allways was, Nukes as a deterrent, not a threat.
Besides we did warn the Japanese, Hey we are fixing to bomb you back to the stone age. You had better surender. It isn't hypocritical to see the results that were unknown at the time. Realise the horror and work to ensure that it doesn't happen again.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Here is how I would look at it. If you spent 20 years going to se Hitler speak, would you be able to say you never knew he dislike Jewsih people and could get away with condeming what he said? No you would be a jew hater as welll.....because you supported him for 20 years. 20 years people, that is a long time to go to a church and NOT know this is what your pastor believed. If Obama did not know this about his pastor he is unfit to be president as he does not have the capacity to make judgment calls about people...muchless countries.
stdreb27
Active Member
Once again the issue in my mind isn't whether he will openly dispute these assinine statement. Because of course he will if he agrees or not.
But the idea that this man obama's pastor, the man obama donated money to, the man who married Obama, baptised his kids, the man who said, "God d--- america" hasn't influenced Obama's core beliefs which will reflect in Obama's decisions as prez. Obama willingly sat under this mans teaching, Yeah that is the man I want as prez.
But the idea that this man obama's pastor, the man obama donated money to, the man who married Obama, baptised his kids, the man who said, "God d--- america" hasn't influenced Obama's core beliefs which will reflect in Obama's decisions as prez. Obama willingly sat under this mans teaching, Yeah that is the man I want as prez.
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2519127
Ok, Obama spoke out last night to address the issue of his pastor’s outrageous comments from the pulpit. I thought Obama's comments were reasonable and I also think he was sincere. Obviously Pastor Wright is retiring now (over this) so that it won't be necessary for Obama to actually make a break from his church community.
It is pretty tough to believe that in a 20 year period that Obama was never aware of the pastor’s sentiments or heard those types of comments during the course of a "sermon". I think he was aware, even if he did not support the sentiments. He may not have ever actually been present during one of these "rallies". Time will tell as I am sure many are busy trying to see if Obama was actually present during one of those types of sermons.
I think Obama touched on something very significant and that is the African-Americans' perspective on USA history as opposed to what is generally held by the majority (white) population of Americans. It stands to reason, and is very reasonable to me, that African-Americans do have a darker view of our history and that they are shaped and still very influenced by those dark days of the past. And, yes, I'm talking about slavery, but really you don't have to go that far back to know that life was not the same for black-American citizens. Life still is not the same for many. Obama obviously sets an example of hope as he as achieved so very much.
I think nowdays, our American blacks are loosing ground with mainstream white Americans because so many of the young have embraced the hip-hop gangster culture. And, its not just the music, but a "way of life". I'm certainly not saying all, but I would say too many. To me, what was gained for blacks during the civil rights days, is being lost by the influences this sub-culture has on the young.
Rather than debate what Obama knew or didn’t know about his pastor, I’d like to hear opinions about the message that Obama gave last evening. And that is that African-Americans hold to a very different perspective about our country and our American society. The topic is obviously open to everyone but I’d love to hear from African-Americans on this subject and get their perspective. To me this issue is more important for both blacks and whites in our society, rather than trying to bring Obama down because of his association with Wright or a church that embraces Wright.
Just so everyone knows, I’m not an Obama supporter. I vote independent and have not yet made up my mind about the election.
This topic has the potential to be inflammatory and negative and I would appreciate if it did not turn in that direction. If it does, it will be closed.
This was a very good statment by you, I opened this not sure what to expect because I believe that many of you would read to much into the pastor's statements and take it overboard... I am an african american, and I agree with your point of view... I've used the term "white america" and 'black america" and have been accused of being divisive or racist, which is not at all the case... but I believe that in general...most racial groups have a different perspective about our country based on historical views, social views, economic views, and so on... I have yet to read the other post, and I have some idea of what to expect, but I must say that I was pleasently suprised by your post.. I'll commit further as I read on
http:///forum/post/2519127
Ok, Obama spoke out last night to address the issue of his pastor’s outrageous comments from the pulpit. I thought Obama's comments were reasonable and I also think he was sincere. Obviously Pastor Wright is retiring now (over this) so that it won't be necessary for Obama to actually make a break from his church community.
It is pretty tough to believe that in a 20 year period that Obama was never aware of the pastor’s sentiments or heard those types of comments during the course of a "sermon". I think he was aware, even if he did not support the sentiments. He may not have ever actually been present during one of these "rallies". Time will tell as I am sure many are busy trying to see if Obama was actually present during one of those types of sermons.
I think Obama touched on something very significant and that is the African-Americans' perspective on USA history as opposed to what is generally held by the majority (white) population of Americans. It stands to reason, and is very reasonable to me, that African-Americans do have a darker view of our history and that they are shaped and still very influenced by those dark days of the past. And, yes, I'm talking about slavery, but really you don't have to go that far back to know that life was not the same for black-American citizens. Life still is not the same for many. Obama obviously sets an example of hope as he as achieved so very much.
I think nowdays, our American blacks are loosing ground with mainstream white Americans because so many of the young have embraced the hip-hop gangster culture. And, its not just the music, but a "way of life". I'm certainly not saying all, but I would say too many. To me, what was gained for blacks during the civil rights days, is being lost by the influences this sub-culture has on the young.
Rather than debate what Obama knew or didn’t know about his pastor, I’d like to hear opinions about the message that Obama gave last evening. And that is that African-Americans hold to a very different perspective about our country and our American society. The topic is obviously open to everyone but I’d love to hear from African-Americans on this subject and get their perspective. To me this issue is more important for both blacks and whites in our society, rather than trying to bring Obama down because of his association with Wright or a church that embraces Wright.
Just so everyone knows, I’m not an Obama supporter. I vote independent and have not yet made up my mind about the election.
This topic has the potential to be inflammatory and negative and I would appreciate if it did not turn in that direction. If it does, it will be closed.
This was a very good statment by you, I opened this not sure what to expect because I believe that many of you would read to much into the pastor's statements and take it overboard... I am an african american, and I agree with your point of view... I've used the term "white america" and 'black america" and have been accused of being divisive or racist, which is not at all the case... but I believe that in general...most racial groups have a different perspective about our country based on historical views, social views, economic views, and so on... I have yet to read the other post, and I have some idea of what to expect, but I must say that I was pleasently suprised by your post.. I'll commit further as I read on